HOW TO: replace flasher relay & keep auto cancel feature

Thanks to some other members' help, i was able to replace my busted and rusted original flasher relay with a new one.

Sounds simple enough, but our bikes have a unique flasher relay (not available today... yet) that takes a signal from the canceling unit to determine weather or not to flash. A modern 3 wire flasher will not work, and using a 2 wire flasher will loose your auto canceling feature (after 10 seconds AND 150 meters, the indicators stop flashing). I've drawn up a little schematic with (I think) all the information you'll need to replace your original flasher relay with a modern one, AND keep the auto canceling feature.

I welcome all questions, comments, and concerns.

Thanks for checking it out!



(link to full sized image)

 

Good work.

That's a SPDT relay. You need to indicate if you use the NO or NC connections for the flasher side of the circuit.

Ideally, you'll relabel your diagram with the numbers on the contacts.

Then, post it in the XJ FAQ section.

 

You are correct, I edited it to say normally open. I'll add the contact numbers eventually but that sucker is buried so far in my bike that it would be an hour long process to pull it to read it. Next time i'm at radio shack i'll get the contact numbers.

 

There's another way to build this. Chacal and I were talking about making them, but I just don't think there's enough demand for 'em. I've been contemplating turning over the information to the forum for those that want to build it.

It all fits inside a standard electronic Grote 44540 three-prong flasher. It requires a bit of de-soldering and rearranging, but it's not too difficult.





What you're doing is basically shorting out the capacitor by energizing the transistor with the signal from the canceler circuit. By shorting the capacitor, the circuit is prevented from oscillating until the voltage is removed from the base of the transitor. This happens when you turn on the turn signal switch which resets the canceler.

You start by de-soldier the capacitor and the jumper wire that's hooked to the third leg of the flasher. Then you soldier a jumper wire (red wire in the above picture) from there around to the base of the capacitor. Then you hook the Emitter and Collector in parallel to the capacitor. A little double-stick tape, a paper clip used for jumpers, a bit of 18 awg wire, and Bob's your uncle! Slide the cover back on and plug her in. You're good to go!

 

Wow! I wish I had that info about a month or two ago. Fantastic work! I'll be making one of these for sure.

 

Thanks for letting me thread-jack and not getting mad about it. If you need help when you're ready to build, let me know. It's actually pretty easy to put together.

 

No problem at all, my intention was simply so share my findings with other members and hopefully provide a solution to a common problem. You've found a better way and i'm excited to try it. It all seems easy enough, reomve a jumper, reposition a capacitor, and add a transistor. If i end up needing help, i certainly won't be afraid to ask. Thanks!

 

Simple and unique idea. Curious though wouldn't you wire to the NC relay connectors?

The canceler provides 12v when not allowing flashing right? So when not flashing the new relay will be picked. When you want to allow flashing the canceler is reset (so no voltage and relay opens) this would close the NC connections and allow flashing.

Do I have it backwards?

 

Yep, Bill, you've got it right. It's marked backwards on the diagram. I just looked at the rat-shack relay I've got and the wires are soldiered to the two for normally closed.

As a side note, there's no numbers on the relay. You need the diagram on the package to know which is what.

 

Thanks Don I have been looking at a canceler issue myself so I wanted to be sure I had it right.

The really cool thing is with this set up we can switch to LEDs and an electronic flasher while keeping the canceler.

 

What electronic LED flasher are you using?

 

Not using one yet but this would allow the canceler too. Just in the thought stage...

 

My mistake on labeling the diagram, I wired it correctly at least. I'll fix it when i have time. thanks for pointing it out.

 

So Don (Gamuru), I never got the chance to make one of your nice little flashers up. In speaking with Len (Chacal) it sounds like it didn't end up working out. Is this true? Where were the problems?

 

The flasher works fine with non-LED light bulbs.

 

gotcha. thanks. why no LED? a load issue?

 

Exactly.

 

Or... you could also do mine for auto-cancel with or without LED's... basically the same thing that bluepotpie came up with.

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14068.html

Funny, though, that I didn't find this thread back when I was doing my original work.

One note if converting to LED's, though: if you have a single turn signal indicator (rather than Left and Right) in your instrument cluster, this lamp runs from the difference between the left and right turn signals, so you'll need to rewire that indicator with some diodes to prevent it shorting your left and right turn signals together (unintentional 4-way flashers).

Cheers,
Paul

 

Hmm, all very cool stuff.

Think the original post is my favorite way to go though, for ease of setup.

SQL - I never thought about that indicator being an issue. Will have to have Andy (bluepotpie) help me with that... not nearly as good with the electrical as him.

 

Actually, Andy's setup and mine are exactly the same, except for whether the relay's before or after the flasher (which is electrically equivalent anyway).

 

But your writeup includes a LOT MORE than just the auto cancel, which is why someone with such a tiny brain, muah, is confused. lol.

 

I've started converting my turn signals to LEDs. Changed the front pair (with attached resistors) and all seemed to work fine as long as the engine was running but on just battery power the lights would flash a few times and then stay on. I have just replaced the rear lights (with resistors as well) and now all 4 lights go on and stay on (no blinking) no matter if the bike is running or not. Is there an easy fix for this? Does this have anything to do with the signal indicator on the instrument cluster? I'm easily confused with electrical stuff so please dumb down your answers for me. I also can't seem to locate the relay. I've pulled two (one mounted under the seat and one under the fuel tank) and neither one caused the lights to stop lighting up. I assume if I pull the right relay the lights should not work at all, right?

 

You probably need more load. What resistors did you use?

 

Here is a pic of the turn signal relay and the self cancelling unit, not sure what bike you have but both are usually located under the tank.



SQLGuy most likely made the right call with the resistor wattage to simulate the load of the 27W bulbs. Low voltage can also cause no flashing, as in the bike not running or a marginal battery / charging system.

 

I used the resistors supplied with the lights which the literature tells me are 10w resistors. That seems too low considering the original lights were 27w so my problem is probably not enough resistance. The biks is an 82 XJ550. I finally managed to find the relay after tracing wires by their colour. The relay has no brand or numbers on it so I can't specify the make but it looks just like your photo above of a Nippondenso relay. I've now installed 1A diodes on either side of the turn indicator lamp, spliced the wires together that are coming from the turn signals and created a proper ground from the indicator lamp as well. Now the lights come on as they should (left only or right only) but they don't flash. I'm planning on replacing the relay with an LED compatible one to take resistance right out of the equation. Hopefully that solves the no flash issue.

 

If you want to keep auto-cancel, with a different flasher, you'll need to rig up a relay like in my write-up. Otherwise, you'll probably need to double up the resistors, in parallel, to have enough load to flash with the stock flasher.

 

Good stuff here. Thank you all for sharing your ideas. Back when my flasher died I opened it up and saw that it had an electrolytic capacitor. They are notorious for drying out over time. The flasher is in a harsh location to begin with: right over the engine where its hot. I ended up going to Radio Shack and buying a 35v electrolytic cap that was a close uF match to the OE. I desoldered the OE cap and soldered in the new and it worked great for a few months then it died. Radio Shack's stock is probably old. Well I just gave up trying to polish a turd and replaced the OE flasher with a two pin automotive flasher. I just have to cancel the turn signal manually.

 

My auto cancel wasn't working in the first place so I didn't plan on getting it to work. I'm ok with it as is. I've ordered an led flasher and hope it gets things going. Thanks!

 

New flasher arrived today (earlier than expected). Plugged it in and got no lights at all. Then I remembered a post saying I would need to run a ground from the 3rd prong so I did that and VICTORY! All lights working as they should. I love it when a plan comes together.

FYI this was the one I bought: http://www.lightdepot.ca/advanced_s...LED+Flasher+Blinker+Fix+Turn+Signal&x=10&y=12

 

the wattage of the resistor is not the value of the resistor it is how much heat it will dissapate .
its the resistance value you are interested in, measure the resistance of the bulb thats what you want to replacate.

 

Has anyone managed to make this system work without adding resistors to the LEDs? Im trying to save wattage, and adding resistors negates that effect.

 

what is it you want to do go to led AND keep the auto cancel?
for leds it is just using the correct led flasher for Seca 550

Have you changed to LED tail lights and cluster lights yet? I do not change the oil light.

 

You'll need to add diodes to the dash indicator to prevent bleed through, use a no-load signal relay, and add a second relay to retain the self-cancel.

How to convert to LED's and still have everything work
That link was writtn for the XJ750 Maxim/Seca, but the information regarding the relay and the self-cancel apply to all models.

Xj550 will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

his seca 550 has two turn indicators so he should not need to mod the dash
Maxim has 1 indicator but you can use a bidirectional led set up if you can find one . the only ones I found were not bright enough for day time use

from thread Kmoe posted link to

 

XJ550H, I am getting the LED cluster lights from Chacal soon, tail lights changed this morning with a built in brake flasher (Ill be doing a write up for that since the flashers only come in Red and i need it to be white for the licence plate).
K-moe yes i have two indicators (L&R) for the turn signals on my cluster
XJ550H you said I just need the correct LED flasher? I found this thread too from back in 2008 http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/how-to-convert-to-leds-and-still-have-everything-work.14068/
I guess I was hoping that technology caught up with me.

 

Oh sorry yes. I am trying to get LED turn signals to work with auto canceler.

 

while your at it make sure your alternator is in tip top shape check the brushes and clean the copper rings they ride on. there is a line wear mark on the brushes.
make sure they are in spec.