Prospective new XJ owner...

Looks like I might be buying my first XJ today--an '82 (seems popular around here) XJ650 Maxim.

I have it at a mechanic right now for a compression test before I commit, but I'm pretty sure it will do fine--it's a driving bike as is, though it has sat most of the last two years. (As a plus, it did most of that sitting in a mechanic's shop.)

Basically, the guy just isn't a rider. It's his dad's bike, and his dad died a couple years ago. Was passed down to his brother, who upgraded. Then got in a wreck. Both brothers are afraid of bikes, and the guy wants to save money for a house, so he's selling it.

I've done my research, but it took me a while to find this forum. I guess I have two questions here, maybe one I'll save for the 'mods' section:

1. Anything I should check that would be a red flag for an XJ in specific, something I can expect to go wrong and look for in this bike before I buy it? I read somewhere that after first 30,000 mi. the bike is known to have valve problems, for instance, etc.

1a. I'm not too experienced with older bikes, and am a novice mechanic (though I am learning as fast I can--I'm young), but I noticed the exhaust pipes, on the side coming from the engine, were pretty discolored. On the other hand, it's just an old bike, so that should be expected to some extent, yeah? I'm not sure how much, though. My question on that is, what's acceptable and what's not? I read somewhere that this bike doesn't have great stock exhaust--is that right? How can I assess condition for this bike? Is it a sign the engine is running lean?

1b. It's a pretty cold starter, takes its time to warm up--but it responded well in the neighborhood I test drove it in (got it up to 3rd on a straightaway). What does that indicate, what can I do to help that? I know it will be using its choke even in optimal condition--it's there to be used--but what are the factors that will help me get it starting more cleanly?

2. After I buy this bike, I plan to do a complete maintenance of the bike. I plan on driving down to Costa Rica, sitting it for a couple months in a friend's garage there and continuing on foot/bus to South America, then turning around and doing the trip in reverse. The carbs were vatted 2 years ago, and tuned then, but might need to be retuned. I figure I should probably take the shaft drive, break it down, and clean/replace all the bearings and check the assembly--how hard is that, and where is a tutorial? I've never had a shaft drive bike before, always chain. Main question, is, this: when I get this bike, if I get it, what steps should I take to restore the system? I don't have much money, but I have lots of time and a willingness to learn.

I took a video of it idling after it had been warmed up, I'll put a link to that once I upload it to youtube, see if you guys see any red flags.

Forum looks great, look forward to becoming a regular.

Oh yeah, last this: Is $900 a fair price for it?

 

Oh, the mod question:

What are the differences between the Seca and the Maxim? Is it just handlebars? I prefer the look of a Seca, and am wondering if I can just swap bars with a junkyard Seca or something. (I will be touring with it, however, so otherwise the touring setup of the Maxim is preferable.)

 

http://youtu.be/LLw0cIpEv30

There's the video. It's currently uploading, should be live in a minute. Battery died, sorry I didn't get more.

Thanks for your help.

 

1a. The discoloration on the header pipes happens on every bike. It is just from the heat running through them. You don't see it on some bikes because they have heat tape wrapped around them or chromed heat shields that don't discolor. It happens to them all though.

All of the other specifics on the bike I'll leave for the gurus to answer.

Hard to say if $900 is a good buy without mileage or picture for looks of the bike.

 

Sorry, right, mileage--it's like 22,000, pretty darn low. Once the vid is up (it's 720p) I'll take some shots from it and put them here.

*Video is up, and I saw that it's actually 25,288 on the Odometer.

 

$900 is way too much. If it has great compression (140 or better in all 4) then it might be worth $500~$600. If it's only making 120~130 or so, it's only worth about $200. If it has a "sour" cylinder, it's a parts bike.

If you're going to ride it to South America, you're going to be spending about $600~$800 to get it properly recommissioned. Anything less than a complete resurrection and you won't make it past the Rio Grande.

Stock YAMAHA pipes don't discolor because they're dual-walled. Aftermarket pipes do; it depends on the exhaust that's on it.

If it's a STOCK exhaust that's discolored, the motor has overheated horribly or the inner pipes have rusted away, which is rare.

It's going to need all of the maintenance in the book done, and all worn, corroded or dried out/crumbling parts replaced; plus the brakes and carbs rebuilt, etc.

If you're up to it, great. But don't get into this expecting it to be cheap, quick or easy. It's not, not if you want to ride the bike more than a few dozen miles at a time. What you want to do CAN be done; but you gotta go big or it just won't work. There aren't any shortcuts to be had, honest.

 

Oh, and I missed your other question:

In the 650s, the Seca was a one-year bike, 1982 only in the USA; and it was a completely different animal than the '82 650 Maxim.

Besides the styling, the frames, brakes, lighting, exhaust and motor are different; the Seca 650 used the non-YICS motor (USA market) while the Max had the YICS mill for '82.

Handlebars come in all sorts of shapes; that's an easy swap, and the least of your worries.

 

--

 

Just because it is drivable does not mean it is safe.....
I would at the very least do the following to the 30 year old bike.....
Brakes - replace both the shoes and the pads, also change out (or rebuild) the master cylinder and replace the lines on the front breaks. If your bike is like mine I would also change the wheel bearings because they are probably about gone. Check your valves and then clean and sync your carbs. I would also then color tune. Once you have done these things at least it is going to be a safe bike to ride. Price of your bike really depends on where you live. I paid a thousand for mine and put over $5500 into restoring it but I am very happy with what I have because a new one similar to it would run me over 10 grand. My bike now runs as good, if not better than when it was new. Fitz must live in a place where bikes are pretty cheap because you wouldn't find a running bike like that in the 500 to 600 dollar range around where I live.

 

Yeah, same here, if it's running fair it's usually at least a thousand... And this was priced at a thousand.

So mechanic said it was 150 on all four cylinders, transmission smooth, charges good. He had a new brake master cylinder installed some time ago, a spare from a Honda installed (you can see a close up in the video if that sounds odd--looks like a decent job).

I got him down to 800, plus I pay the $80 for the check-up (which I expected to pay anyways). It has a clean title as well. I think it's a steal at this price, no?

Thanks for that list oldBikerDude, that's a great starting place.

 

I have to agree with Fitz. With the work that you would need to do to it, I wouldn't pay more than $600.

I paid $650 for my 650 Seca and it was in a lot better nick than that Maxie.

Original brake line, junk MC, tires didn't look that good in the vid, valves, carbs, rear brake shoes, these are all things that will need to be gone over.

And as for the valves:

The reason people have problems with these bikes where the valves are concerned is because they have never been checked. The initial check was to be at 3,000 miles and every 5,000 miles thereafter. It's a routine maintenance item that was often overlooked.

And in the vid:
I noticed a lot of "I had this changed, I had that changed". From the sounds of it, even though he is a mech, he didn't do the work himself and probably doesn't know that much about these machines.

 

The things that I listed were just the first of many if you want your bike to be reliable and safe. You can read about all that I have done to mine by going to.....
http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=31614.html

 

Honestly; you can't "gloss over" stuff based on "I had this done" from the PO or you really won't get much past the Rio Grande. I immediately become suspicious when I see inappropriate parts substitutions, it's a clue that the "knowledgeable" PO wasn't so knowledgeable after all. Understand this: YOU have some work to do; check that-- a LOT of work to do. This isn't an old car, it's an old motorcycle.

Do you really want to try to fix a broken XJ in the middle of rural Mexico?

HERE'S the list; and you'll need to replace anything you come across that isn't in excellent ready to run serviceable condition:

- check tires, condition, and date codes. Anything over 6 years has to go.

- inspect wheel rims for damage or excessive runout.

- replace front brake pads.

- inspect disc brake calipers for damage, wear (thickness), or excessive warpage/runout.

- VISUALLY check rear brake shoes for wear/delamination; adjust rear brake pedal linkage. This is very important. Delamination is common, the only way to detect it is to SEE it. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15874.html

- check and adjust if needed operation of front and rear brake light switches.

- replace rubber brake hoses (check the mfg date stamped in them).

- unless known to be otherwise, plan on rebuilding the brake master cylinder and caliper(s).

- check and clean/replace the air filter element.

- change all fluids: fork oil, engine oil, final drive oil, and brake fluid.

- check and repair any engine or drivetrain/suspension fluid leaks.

- replace fork seals.

- replace tach drive oil seals (if applicable.)

NOTE: almost any original oil seal or engine case gasket will need to be replaced when its cover is removed for the first time.

- check and adjust/lubricate/replace steering head bearings.

- check and adjust/lubricate/control cables and speedometer and tachometer (if applicable) drive cables..

- replace rear shock absorbers.

- electrical system inspection, replace fusebox and most probably alternator brushes.

- check battery condition; replenish fluid (distilled water only!).

- clean the battery terminals.

- check all lights for proper operation and brightness (headlight, tail/brake light, turn signals, dash illumination).

- check horns for proper operation and loudness.

- check stator resistance.

- check rotor resistance.

- check battery.

- check coil primary, secondary, plug caps resistance. Inspect plug caps for looseness or loose resistor cores.

- check and adjust camchain tensioner.

- check engine cylinder compression; record your findings.

- check and adjust valve clearances; record your findings.

- drain carbs, check for foreign matter in bowls, install in-line fuel filter.

- disassemble and clean carbs, replace all rubber o-rings and other worn parts.

- "wet-set" float levels to spec.

- check function/operation of fuel petcock; correct any leaks and/or rebuild the petcock if indicated.

- Install a new set of properly gapped spark plugs.

- Vacuum synchronize carburetors, with YICS blocked.

- Adjust mixtures using a ColorTune, or by ear using the idle drop method.

Once all that's been done; and any unserviceable parts replaced along the way, you'll be good to go.

Except for maybe the seat; for "all day" comfort, have the seat redone with modern foam and have them take the "dip" out to give you some room to move around.

Start with a service manual.

 

The PO openly admitted to not knowing much. This was his dad's bike, and he passed a couple years ago. Then it went to his brother. His brother upgraded to a new Triumph, so it got passed to him--and he never really got into it. His brother had a wreck a couple months ago on the Triumph, so they both got spooked, and he decided to sell it... He was never into it anyways, and he's trying to save money for a house.

His dad, however, was a mechanic, and seems to have maintained the engine really well. He got it 10 years ago when he was repairing a guy's car and he didn't have money to pay him, so he give the guy his bike.

This stuff is great, it's a lot to look over, but I can tell am going to learn a lot... Is there a place with links to details on this stuff? For instance, why block YICS?

Brake Master Cylinder was replaced (as shown in video) with a Honda one not too long ago. Right fork was known to be leaky, so that was redone not too long ago (some rust had developed). The horn is too quiet, I need to fix that (where do I start with that?). Other known issue is the switch for the headlight broke off--you can switch it, but you have to be stopped and jam something like your key in. I just leave it on bright for now. Anyone here able to recommend where I can go to get a replacement for that left hand electronics section, and how much that'll cost? Guy said $100 on ebay, thought it would probably be more approachable here.

I ran out of gas yesterday (caught me off guard--already? I had just filled it up the day before, I guess I was just having too much fun with this bike's acceleration), and when I switched it to reserve, it still wouldn't start. 1 gallon in, and it still wouldn't start. This led me to hours of troubleshooting, which in the end resulted in it actually just needing a second gallon of fuel. By that time the battery was weak, but it push started pretty easily.

However, I made an amateur mistake, and read the oil level in the midst of that while the bike was on the kickstand, freaked out, ran and bought oil (I called the former owner, he quickly googled on the phone and said it looked like it needed 10-40), and poured a whole container in.

A bit later, realizing my mistake, I called my uncle who has been riding for many years, and checked to see if running it with too much oil for a bit would hurt it. He had to call a friend to check. Friend said there's probably a vent for it to release excess oil, so I shouldn't worry. I drove it home no problems once I started it, but I'm not driving it again until I do an oil change... What type of oil should I use? Is it ok to drive a bit with too much oil? Does this bike have a vent?

The bike starts right up--less than a second with the electric start. It starts a little cold, but it's really not bad. Why are you guys assuming it's in bad condition? Just from the cosmetics? I get the impression that the mechanic father that owner this before took really good care of the inside of this machine.

Most importantly, at the end... Is there an online copy of the service manual here anyone knows of?

 

We block YICS only to vacuum sync the carbs, because it can throw the sync off.

Use motorcycle-specific oil; 20W40 is recommended but hard to find. 20W50 is fine, as long as it's motorcycle-specific, NOT just automotive oil. Stay away from synthetics.

The bike does have a crankcase vent; it feeds into the airbox. If you run with too much oil, you'll foul the air filter.

Nobody's assuming it's in "bad condition" we're all just very familiar with the things that are commonly neglected on bikes this old. Some of them might not be things you'd think of, until they fail on you. And some of those lurking failures are potentially very dangerous.

 

Found the answer to my last question... Seems there's a copy here:
http://www.scribd.com/sc196059/d/451667 ... ice-Manual

That I'm downloading now. If anyone would like (and if someone else hasn't already) I can put it up on another website so you don't have to give them a PDF (or pay) to download it.

 

I read on the FAQ suggestions forums that you suggested 20w50 motorcycle oil in warmer weather (which is what we have in Texas and beyond the border .

I put 10w40, and since I had the limited selection of a gas station, I'm sure it was car oil. I'm doing an oil change today, but is there risk of any other problems/are there any other preventative measures or checks I need to do on it now?

 

If your oil is really full, be careful! It will vent into the air box and drip out everywhere, including all over the rear wheel. It's not fun...

 

I want to shop where YOU shop !
Most 30 year old bikes in Florida are higher mile, sun damaged, and corroded from the rides to the beach (salt) and all the humidity.
People here are asking $800 for JUNK

Thank Goodness my 900 came from a New York Millionaire. 8)

 

No kidding, right? If bikes were that cheap where I lived, I might have as many as fitz too!