550 Seca - starting after service, having problems

So, once again, I am working on the 550.

Last year it ran, but the idle was high and hanging.

This year:
set valve clearances
fixed the neutral switch and the sidestand switch bypass
cleaned out starter
re-checked the carbs, making sure the enrichment wells were clear and the tubes were clean.
Verified spark on all cylinders
Fixed all the oil leaks
Got the floats set.
Got a new battery.

So, tonight it went like this:

I got the carbs reinstalled. Put gas in. Gas did not leak from the carb, so I'd say the floats are finally squared away.

I spun over the engine, got nothing. Played with the choke lever, spun some more.

What I got for my troubles was a pretty epic backfire out the exhaust.

So, what gives?

 

The plugs looked OK when I took them out. Should I try new ones, anyway?

 

Yep.

New plugs and a fully charged battery.

Put it on "PRI" for a minute or so before attempting to start.

FULL "choke" (and don't touch the throttle, at least at first.) It should fire up.

Remember what all of us (me too) sometimes "instinctively" forget: opening the throttles only adds more AIR, it doesn't do anything else. (The carbs do everything else themselves.)

 

I'm running it from a bottle, not the tank. No sense putting it back on only to have to take it off for synch.

I'll get new plugs and see what happens.

 

Oh, OK. Just be sure the bowls are full before you try to light it up.

 

Put in new plugs.
Choke on all the way

Spun a while. Did not catch. Got a single pop in the mufflers loud enough to make my ears ring. My wife thought I shot myself out of desperation...

 

I don't get it. Why did it work a few months ago and doesn't now? The only major engine thing I did between it running and not running was adjust the valves.

 

Do a "Pop ~ No-pop" Test.

Try starting it with a spritz of Starting Fluid.

If it runs on the Starting Fluid goose, ... the Problem is "Fuel Delivery" related.

Don't "Pop" ... the problem is elsewhere.

 

Bastard.

No start with fluid. And no spark.

I should have power at coil connectors when cranking, I assume. None there.

Off to poke at wiring...

 

TCI box has two plugs. Smaller goes to the coils. The larger should have power, right? There is an orange, a gray and a blue, plus two black wires. Black, I'm assuming, is ground. None of the other three have power to them.

 

OK, figured out no power to coils. The sidestand switch has been removed, and thew wires were grounded sloppy.

Got good ground to both of them. Now the coils have power.

Still not starting, though...

I'm out of starter fluid, so I can't try that again.

 

When you pick up another can of starting fluid, get another set of plugs. As well as the NGKs work, they have got to be the most sensitive plugs I've ever dealt with in terms of becoming fuel-saturated and then refusing to work. Get them good and wet trying to start it with a no-spark situation and you'll kill them.

Make sure mice didn't build a nest in your airbox too.

 

No mice in the airbox. I had to stick my hand in to get the boots on the carbs straight.

Do you think only a couple of tries would get the plugs saturated?

 

I've done it trying to start on a weak battery in an otherwise perfectly-tuned bike, in the time it took to run the battery dead.

 

Okay. I think I'm in trouble.

No spark. Backprobing the coil connectors tells me there is power to coils.

I'm thinking either my TCI has taken a vacation, or the crank sensor is no good.

So, how do I tell which it is?

 

Which book do you have?

 

I have a PDF scan of what I think is a service manual.

It has a very short chart.

Check connections

Check battery

Check fuses

Check resistance of ignition coil
Primary: 2.5 Ohm +/- 10% at 68F (20C)
Secondary: 11KOhm +/- 20% at 68F (20C)

Check resistance of pick-up coil
650 Ohm +/- 20% at 68F (20C)

If all that checks out, TCI is bad.


I guess I'm off to dig out my multitester.

 

Poke around this site for a while.
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFaq.pdf

look at this troubleshooting chart.
http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=21932.html

Picture of a TCI unit showing what wires go where.
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/ImageGallery1/0060.jpg

Good electrical specs here.
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=233957.html

 

PM me with your email address and I'll send you the fault isolation diagrams from the factory book.

 

Before you get to this point... I'll take the bike off your hands

 

Update:


I poked around the the wiring diagram Fitz sent me and tested some stuff.

First off, I found that the TCI had no ground with the key on. However, it did have ground with the key off. Which makes me think the sidestand relay is somehow screwy. So, I took out the relay and jumpered the wires. Now I have ground on the black/white wire at all times. Still can't start it.

The schematic is showing two ground wires from the pickup coils. The connector has one. However, I don't see any resistance between that wire and either of the pickup coil wires (grey and orange). Are my coils broken?

 

Found it.

Both pickup coils are toast.

The wire loom was misrouted and the wires from the coils were cut, shorted and grounded. Testing coils at the cuts in the wires gets me open circuit.

Looks like I need some coils and wires...

 

It seems like a lot of people are having their coils die lately... nearing the 30 y/o practical age limit.

 

I'm pretty sure the mangled wiring is at least a contributing factor here.

 

I decided the coils are shot. Ordered a set from eBay. We shall see...

 

Could have taken the opportunity to upgrade to dyna coils or the like.

Hope it solves the issue!

 

I don't think Dyna makes pickup coils...

The ignition coils are fine. It's just that the TCI has no input signal telling it when to fire.

 

Well, I got a replacement wiring harness with coils from eBay. Put it on today. Nothing.

I still have no spark on either coil.

 

I sent you both wiring and circuit diagrams, didn't I?

Did I send you the ignition and starting fault isolation diagrams yet? If not just say so.

And please don't assume all eBay parts are going to work and not just create a different problem.

Step back. Look at the title of this thread.

Did it run before you mucked with it? Yes/no. ???

Does it run now? No.

What happened in between? YOU did. Please don't take offense; but you "serviced" it and now it won't fire. Believe me, I've done my own self in more times than I can count. Plus barked up many the wrong tree.

Stop.

RETRACE YOUR STEPS. Diagnose. We'll figure it out. Let me know if you need the additional pages from the factory book.

 

Yep and yep.

Good point

Well, I do know that I probably mangled the misrouted wire bundle. The cover was loose before I got at it. That's why I decided to replace the harness and pickup coils - I didn't want a bunch of splices at the lowest point in the wiring.

What I don't know is if cranking with the wires shorted or backprobing the wrong wire can potentially kill the TCI. Because I've done that.