Transmission Issue

Hey guys,
I was riding my bike the other day for about an hour and when I started it again to go home I couldn't get it to shift into neutral or second. I noticed the clutch wasn't fully disengaging so I adjusted it all the way and it still won't disengage. I can get the bike to start by push starting it but it still won't go into neutral. I was hoping someone else has had this issue and might have an easy fix to it.

Also I took off the shifting mechanism cover and everything appears to still be moving but the shift drum is stuck.

 

There is a fairly large passage under the shift cover that runs between the shift rachet and the transmission. Shine a light in that hole and see if there are chunks of plastic jammed in the gears.

Also check to see if the shift return spring is broken. It is a small spring on the shift mechanism.

 

Okay so I did what you suggested and you nailed it on the head. There was a piece of plastic with some metal shoved through it stuck against the shift drum stopping it from rotating. Any ideas what it is/was?

 

That is a part of your primary chain guide. They harden and fail due to age. You will need a factory service manual, and the Haynes manual, and a fair amount of patience.

The remedy is to split the cases, clean out all the crap, and replace the guide. It is also a good idea to replace the primary chain, and the starter clutch since splitting the cases is a lengthy process. If you don't see any flakes of metal in the oil you can go ahead and ride it this season and do the work in the winter.

A couple of tips:

The process has a lot of steps, but each step is fairly simple. Take your time to read and understand what you will be doing.

There are a few special tools that are needed, but they are inexpensive and as the owner of a classic motorcycle you will find use for them again.

Loctite 515 or 518 are fantastic upgrades to Yamabond.

Chacal has all the parts you will need at very reasonable prices and with better customer support than you will find anywhere.

This thread covers the process pretty well: http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/xj750-engine-removal-and-split-pictures.38545/
Note that you can cheat a little and can split the crankcases without removing the head or cylinders. This makes installing a new primary chain impossible, but the primary chain on the shaft driven bikes sees light duty compared to the chain driven XJs, so it is unlikely in need of replacement if your machine has less than 50,000 miles on it. On the other hand this is an excellent opportunity to replace all of the gaskets and inspect the engine internals in order to get a heads up on any other potential issues.

 

That's what I was afraid of hearing. I really don't have the room for splitting my cases and my bike has somewhere nearing 100k miles if not more now. I hate to have to get rid of this girl but I really can't devote tons of money and time into fixing her up. Thanks for the information K-moe. I'm gonna do some thinking and talk to my step-dad. Maybe some great source of money will just spring up and I can afford to do this work...

 

Total cost (DYI) would be somwhere in the range of $400. Compare that to the money you'd spend on a replacement motorcycle. You will come out ahead by fixing her, or finding a used engine with fewer miles (and an intact primary guide). I financed my primary guide replacement, and starter clutch replacement by taking a sack lunch for three months instead of eating my usual $10 takeout lunch.

 

Well I decided to just ride the hell out of it this season and see if it survived. I was putting by clutch together (step-dad thought it may have been a clutch issue the other day) and ended up sheering the head off of one of the bolts. I'm going to stop before I destroy anything else and part her out.

 

I might be interested in the engine. Start a conversation with me. Which XJ?

 

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread

k-moe
I was just about to embark on replacing my primary chain guard. I found a piece of plastic in the shifting drum exactly like the OP. I was going to do the 'cheat' you mentioned and not remove the cylinder and head. I thought I would be able to replace the primary chain with this method, but as I read it you can't?

My bike is an xj650, which is shaft driven, and has 47,000km (which is only 29-30k miles) so as I understand the chain should have quite a bit of life in it still? If I don't replace it what should I look for while inspecting it?

 

Anything that might render it not serviceable. Also don't forgot to mark it upon dis-assembly (it must be returned to the orientation it is removed). Hope this helps.

Gary H.

 

So can you replace it without removing the head or cylinders?

I ordered the parts from Chacal and I ordered a chain. But not sure if I got all the gaskets that I may require to remove the head and cylinder, if it's required to come off to replace the chain.

 

You can not replace the chain without removing the connecting rods from the crankshaft, and the best way to do that without risking damaging the cylinder liners, or the bearings is to do a teardown of the top end. If you go that route you should go ahead and order all the gaskets that the engine has and replace them since the engine will essentially be completely torn down at that point

Im ny opinion, at 30K there really is no reason to change the primary chain. It is a HIVO chain and they have a very long service life. I would expect that you would not need to consider changing it until well after 50K miles. The primary chain in the shaft driven bikes is only used to spin the alternator, and to spin the engine when the starter is engaged, so it is understressed compared to a true primary chain which links the crankshaft to the transmission.

 

Ok well I'll inspect it for excessive wear but will most likely leave it.
Thanks appreciate the help!!

 

Anyone know if the clutch has to come apart with the "cheat" method of replacing the primary chain guard?

 

i don't know what the "cheat" method is but once you're in that far the clutch is child's play

 

It does. You have to split the cases, and the clutch has to come out to do that. The "cheat" is to leave the top end alone and only split the cases (this precludes replacing the primary chain and the cam chain).

Be really careful when removing the chain guide mounting bolts. The heads can break off (particularly the one closest to the crank, which is reatined by a threadlocking compound (apply some heat to help it break free)). If one does break, stop what you are doing, tear the top end down, and take the upper case to a machine shop to have the remainder of the bolt removed.

 

Stupid question I guess...How do you know when it's time for a chain replacement along with its guides??

 

There is no set metric for that. Chain free length should not be excessive, and there should not be any visible damage to the chain. That is all the factory manual has to say on the matter. I doubt that a primary chain would need to be replaced before 50,000 miles, but you have to weigh that with the need to tear the engine down again to replace the chain if all you are replacing is the guide.

 

That on the visible part I mean when you open the engine. But there is any sign that you should be on the lookout that tells you it's time to replace that chain? A noise or something?

 

Usually there will be a tapping in the lower case that signifies the chain hitting the oil nozzle, so that would be a clue. But since there is no tensioner on the shaft driven bikes, the chain tends to rattle around a bit at low RPMs anyway.

 

The primary chain on my XJ1100 drives the clutch so it is pretty heavily loaded.

 

And it is also an entirely different beast. Your engine is based on the SX1100.

The OP never let me know what bike he has, and the rest of the conversation has been about the XJ650/750/700/900, which have primary chains that are really alternator/starter chains.

The XJ555 and 600 also have true primary chains that drive the clutch.

 

Ok...mine have a (I don't know how loud since I never see one of this bikes before) loud noise at 1000/1500 rpm, sound like a chain that's why I asked. Above 1500rpm you only hear a humming...

 

Re-reading my post, I have to tell you that my bikew (xj700 1985) is the 15th bike of 23 that got into the country (Argentina)...so you see one of this kind every once in a while. Its my 5th year living here and I only saw one in a meeting...I saw the engine, everything else was hand made....

 

Ok guys I'm back at it today. Here come a couple newbie questions.
I didn't remove the alternator , I think that was a mistake. Should I remove it?

The Torx bolts in the drive shaft, anyone know the Yamaha part number? (Probably a long shoot, but I will need new ones)

And the new case sealant says to stay away from the shell bearing and the oil o ring. What's the shell bearing? Anyone have a diagram and where to put or not put sealant?

 

Idk if you should remove the alternator or not. Chacal has the torx screws. Is the case split? Crankshaft half shells are located in the upper and lower case to provide a surface for the crankshaft journals to rotate around and are continuously oil fed for lubrication. The sealant will clog the oil feed which results in bad news. Keep the sealant a few mm way from the shells (It'll spread when the cases are assembled). There is a single oil feed with a o-ring above the shifter cover between the cases. Do not put sealant there at all. Clog the feed, same thing...bad news.

Gary H.

 

STOP! Get a factory service manual, and THEN proceed. You are treading in dangerous territory without one.

Yes the alternator has to come off.

Use LocTite 515 or 518 instead of Yamabond so you don't have to worry about clogging the oil passages. It is anerobic and will mix with the oil if it gets places where it should not be. You also get to take your time when putting the cases back together since it will not start curing until the case halves are fitted back together.

 

Agreed ^. I thought you already had a manual.

Gary H.

 

Ive been mostly using the Haynes manual. I have the service manual too though. The Haynes manual does describe to Remove the alternator, but since I'm not doing the whole engine and I didn't take it off while the engine was in the bike I wanted to know If it was a step I could skip. As for the sealant the Haynes just describes where not to put it. Was hoping someone maybe had a sketch/good picture of the proper application. I reviewed the link on the first page of this post, but his sealant Is grey so it doesn't contrast well in the picture

 

The alternator has to come off in order to get the alternator shaft out of the way so you can replace the chain guide. You should also replace the springs and rollers on the starter clutch while you are in there. The FSM has a very clear diagram of where to put the case sealant.

 

Alrighty. this project is already taking a lot longer than I thought so I may as well do that too while I'm at it.
I'll refer to the factory manual. The Haynes manual seemed pretty comprehensive so I thought it would be adequate.
Didn't get as much done as I thought today :/ ..... ohh well.

anyone know the thread size on the bolt needed to pull the alternator rotor out?

 

I have been back at it recently.

I split the cases and got the new primary guide in and am ready to re-seal the cases.
I am still unsure of how to properly apply the sealant and I want to do it right the first time.

I can't be the only one scratching my head about the semi-weak description in both the Haynes and service manual.
So I enlisted my mediocre paint skills. I figure it would be a good reference to have on the site anyways.

The red is were I am going to apply sealant. The green area areas the manual (from my interpretation) said to avoid.
I would greatly appreciate feed back!!
Also do you apply sealant to both the upper and lower cases or just the upper?
Any recommendation for application? I was going to just apply a thin layer with my finger.
(FYI I and using threebond, it was already purchased before you recommended Loctite K-Moe)

 

You have everything marked correctly. Do not spread it with your finger (you'll never get it off). Cut the tip off of the tube and run a narrow bead. Since you are using Threebond be very careful when you get to the crank journals and the o-ring for the transmission oil gallery. Only apply it to the upper case and try to keep a continuious bead along each surface. I like to run a wiggly bead across the joining surface, looping around each hole. That helps to minimize squeeze-out.

 

Awesome Thanks for the response K-Moe!
So just so I got this right, do a very thin bead and the let the case meeting spread it out a bit ?
Or should I get like a old credit card or small putty knife and spread it out?

 

Just let the case spread the bead. That is how it was done during production, and that ensures that all the tiny imperfections get filled in.

 

get a baggie or some other clean small plastic bag, squirt a ounce of your sealer in the corner of the bag, now twist the bag closed and snip the very corner of the bag off. now it's like a cake decorator
for your engine. it doesn't take much, most of it will squeeze out. double check the split rings and a helper to guide the shift forks really helps

 

I did as k-moe said...cut the tip on a slant, keep slant parallel to and ever so slightly above the surface of the case and apply minimal pressure to the tube. The tip will leave a thin layer on the case. Whipe the tip clean as you go to prevent build up.

@Polock: that's a good one too.

Gary H.

 

k guys cases sealed.
Working away cleaning gasket surfaces.
for the gaskets (particularing the oil sump) what do you guys recommend for treatment of the gasket?
the Haynes manual sorta indicates to slap them together and torque it ... but should I rub some oil and the surface first for good measure?

 

Just put them on dry. That's how they are meant to be installed. If there are nicks on the mating surfaces you can use RTV or Loctite 518 (love that stuff) as a gasket dressing to help fill in the voids.

 

I got her all back together!
Everything seems to be working well, and she fired up fairly good considering everything was sitting for a month and a bit.
I appreciate all the help guys. Especially K-Moe I found your advice extremely helpful and you were also very quick to post!!