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XJ750 Starter Clutch Replacement...

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by bike-man-man, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. bike-man-man

    bike-man-man New Member

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    I recently aquired a XJ750...I'm trying to replace the starter Clutch, and I'm curious if anyone has a link or some info, on the the proper way to replace the springs, and if there are upgrade springs....I've searched all over and haven't found any good info...Thanks in Advance...
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Can't say I've heard of upgrades for this unit but the springs and rollers are available from Parts and More, one of the new parts under our links column. Pulling the motor and splitting the case are required. You sure the clutch is the issue? Could you describe the symptoms for us, cause the clutch rarely gives trouble to my knowledge. Regards and welcome aboard!
     
  3. bike-man-man

    bike-man-man New Member

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    I ordered the springs from one of the local Yamaha dealers today....When you hit the starter, you can hear the starter spin but, its not turning the engine over, and sometimes while its "free-spinning" it sounds like something is trying to "catch", and it might even "catch" but it only manages to turn the engine maybe 1/4 of a revolution, then continues to "free-spin"....

    I really don't know much about bikes, so I also ordered a Haynes service manual...

    I'm actually attempting to replace the springs w/o splitting the case, I got them all out, and I think I can reassemble it if I'm careful....We'll see....Let me know what you think....
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Well, you didn't mention if you checked out the internals on the starter motor but that could be your issue. Have you jumped the starter with it off the bike? If so, did it spin? There are three planetary gears inside that unit and it could be that they died. I'm going to assume you did that right off the bat. As far as the springs are concerned, use grease to install them, they won't fall out that way. Use it on the rollers too. Use a moly and graphite type assembly lube that is soluble in oil, like Sta Lube, it will not cause issues with your oil but you may wish to change it shortly after this evolution. Another issue is the starter chain itself. If your issue is worst case, the chain is skipping over the teeth of either the crank or the cluch. I very seriously doubt this. First the starter and then the clutch. Were the springs you pulled out deformed in any way? Were they in pieces? If so, you found your problem. No pressure against the rollers and the sprag will never lock up. Had a buddies GPZ do the same thing, three government issue ball point ink pens and a tube of Permatex set it right. Just clipped the ball point pen springs to length. Never heard from him again about that issue ('88). Guess I ought to give you a chance to respond.
     
  5. bike-man-man

    bike-man-man New Member

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    Let me first say that I'm a ASE Master-Master Auto/Truck Mechanic, so wrenching isn't new to me... I got the bike for $140...I figured it would be fun to learn about motorcycles...No battery, the guy didn't know if it even ran....I got it home and hooked it up using a 40/200A Battery Charger...Nothing-No click, no spin....I took the starter off and cleaned the brushes, and armature contact points....Now the starter works well ( I also ordered new brushes to remedy future issues).....I put it on the bike hoping it would fire right off....It did what I described in the earlier post, so I searched the mighty internet and found out info on something called a "Starter Clutch"....Long disassembly story later, I find three deformed (one broke in half) sprag roller springs.....Parts should be here late next week, and I'm hoping for the best.....I'm sure I'll have some other issues, but I like to learn how to ride, and use it to drive to/from work....There's no traffic, and its never really busy during my commute.....So there's my story.

    My question is, is it possible to replace just the springs w/o taking the motor out/splitting the case open?? I took out the charging mechanism, and went through an access plate behind it (3 small torx screws)....I think I'm on the right track, just curious if I was doing it correctly....
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    You would be breaking new ground and I would love to hear of your success. Sounds like your aiming in the right direction. Take pictures if you can or write out the procedure for the forum at least. I had mine out last summer and I remember everything being tucked underneath a flat plate. I am assuming if you got the old ones out, putting new ones back in the same route should be a forgone conclusion. Did you fish the broken springs out of the access behind the alternator? If you did, your my hero! I would not have thought of that. I'm too much of a "in the box" type of thinker. Hard to come up with my own ideas. I've not heard of anyone else doing what your doing. Anyone care to comment?
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I had mine out of the motor in my hand but I can't remember how much room you would have to try and do this repair while it's still in the bike. I'm sure it's not a whole lot of room. Hopefully one of the springs won't go spronging off on you while your trying to reassemble. Just like Robert, I'm very curious if you can pull off the repair while it's still inside the motor!
     
  8. bike-man-man

    bike-man-man New Member

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    Well I'm here to say, that I successfully replaced my Starter Clutch Springs w/out removing the engine...It was done completely through the access plate behind the generator mechanism....

    A little patience and some long screwdrivers......I think I'm someone's hero now.... :D
     
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  9. Nick

    Nick Member

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    WOW!
    way to go bike-man-man
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Wahoo!! You indeed are a hero today Bike! Did you by chance photograph any of the evolution? I hope so. If you did, please post! Congratulations to you sir!!
     
  11. redcentre003

    redcentre003 Member

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    XJ900 Starter Clutch

    Hi folks. I've got an XJ900 (1985 Australian/European version at 891cc) which I've had for a few years. I've done a bit of work on it and would like to post a pic. soon.

    However, the starter clutch might need some work done on it soon and I've heard mixed reports about how it may be accessible without having to split the crankcase; i.e. through the alternator housing.

    Can anyone elighten me on this. I've checked the Haynes manual and I just can't see how, even if you remove the alternator innards as well as the bearing housing, there would be enough room to remove something with the diameter of the large end of the starter clutch.

    Opinions/assistance anyone please.

    Many thanks.
     
  12. jdrich48

    jdrich48 Member

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    Re: XJ900 Starter Clutch

    Hey redcentre003 welcome.
    Here's another post on the same subject.
    Bike-Man-Man says he did it.
    At least he changed the springs and rollers.
    He clams it can be done, maybe you could PM him and he can give you some more info on the subject.
    Good luck, and be sure to post some pics.
    http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/480
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  13. SnoSheriff

    SnoSheriff Site Owner Staff Member Administrator

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    Welcome redcentre003.

    Thanks jdrich48. Merging topics...
     
  14. bike-man-man

    bike-man-man New Member

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    Yes, it is possible, however if you drop the rollers, springs, or spring caps in the crankcase, you going to have to do it the "right" way anyway...Be prepared....The keys are some patience and go slow...

    I'm doing this from memory so if I left something out or you have a question, please let me know....

    First I took off the starter assembly off and the alternator cover and positioned it aside...Next you must remove the stator (the big copper thing inside the cover that spins w/the engine) there's a bolt in the middle to remove, but the stator has to be pressed off the shaft, you'll have to have a special tool...I've seen them on ebay, but I modified an old harmonic balancer removal tool (the threads were the same)...If you look at the stator it has threads cast into its housing, thread the special puller bolt into that, and while turning the puller, the stator will slide off the shaft....Next, remove the three torx screws that hold the retainer plate to the case....Then, the oil spray tube can be removed...Now the tricky part, pull the shaft out of the case (the starter clutch unit will fall down) using long screw drivers separate the two halfs of the clutch mechanism....The half closest to you will have the chain wrapped around it, and half farthest from you will contain the rollers, springs, and spring caps....Using the long screwdriver, hold the farther section up higher than closer, using another screwdriver you can manipulate, and rotate the clutch/roller mechanism around to remove the three rollers, springs, and caps....A telescoping magnet will help alot...Reassemble the opposite of removal, go slow, make sure both halves of the clutch mate together properly, use a dab of grease to hold the springs, and caps together....

    I will also add as a side note, as it may or may not be required to do so, but I did have the trans clutch removed while doing this, and I also unbolted the idler gear that goes between the starter and the starter clutch(this is done from the trans clutch side)....The idler gear will fall down an inch but can easily be manipulated with magnets and screwdrivers...

    I think that's it....I will say, that not doing this the "right" way saved a TON of time, but it is risky, and could cause engine damage if not done correctly...I had nothing to lose, the springs cost $2 a piece, and I got the bike for $100....It now starts and runs good, although I haven't gotten to ride it yet..

    If there's enough interest in this procedure, I'd be willing to do it again, and photo document everything....I will accept donations...
     
  15. redcentre003

    redcentre003 Member

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    Thanks for the detailed account. It will be very helpful. I knew it would be a minefield if something dislodged and fell into the crankcase but I'm prepared to have a go rather than take the engine out and do open heart surgery when the time comes in the next few months.

    One question - when you say you split the starter clutch into two parts...from the Haynes manual it looks like the large cog and internal roller bearing/spacer do come away easily but the part that houses the springs etc. are pretty much a single unit right back to the Hy-Vo chain cog. If that's the case how did you ensure that the large cog and internals did not slip away into the darkness of the crankcase seeing that it sits at the end farthest away from the opening - is that where the screwdrivers etc. came into play.

    I guess from your account it is the actual clutch body which is turned around inside the hole and the rest of the operation is done carefully through the opening; i.e. that it is not possible to actually remove the clutch mechanism from the bike.

    I may have a couple of more questions but this has helped a lot already.
     
  16. HooNz

    HooNz Member

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    Hi's , just done all this
    The special tool is just a big bolt , as you see in the pics a thinner bolt goes through the theaded large hole to bolt the rotor on , so a well greased [to remove friction] bolt the size to suit and turn in until the rotor pops off , if its tight a rachett gun is best as one can strain the primary chain or turn it tight and hit with hammer.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. HooNz

    HooNz Member

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    Whoooa , hit the end of the bolt with the hammer Not THE ROTOR!!!!

    Funny when typing this stuff it looks ok then a reread and someone or the way its worded do not come out right....
     
  18. roverguy

    roverguy Member

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    Bike-Man-Man

    Clarification please, are you saying that you rotate the clutch so the face that was away from you gets flipped to be facing out towards the generator access hole so you can get to the springs & dogs?

    Thanks!
     
  19. stevo32

    stevo32 Member

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    edited to correct my own stupidity.
     
  20. darkfibre

    darkfibre Member

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    I am very impressed and would love to see pictures.

    When I had a crankcase split I went through the motions of doing the job you just did, but while having more access to see if it was possible. The issues I found was that the bolts on the starter clutch were on the back and not accessible. Did you turn the assembly around?

    When I had the assemble out, I worked on fabricating some tools to use through the shaft hole and found all the tools that I could make that would fit through the hole would not have enough of a sharp bend to be able to seat the springs in the available space.
     
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