Paint Question

Can someone tell me what the original factory paint is, lacquer, enamel, acrylic enamel or some other type of paint?

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index...section-o-emblems-stripes-decals-paint.44631/

What type of paint was the bike originally painted with?:

This is an important question, and more than just out of historical curiosity.

Original paints of that era were either enamel or lacquer, and the technology of paints has advanced so much in the last 25 years as to render those materials obsolete except for producing the most concours-quality, museum-correct show vehicles.

Lacquer was the older product, and as technology progressed in the coatings industry, most vehicle manufacturers started changing over to enamel products sometime during the 1970-80's era. In the USA marketplace, it was not uncommon to have one (for example) General Motors Assembly Plant painting their production with lacquer paints, while another Assembly Plant, producing the same vehicles in the same colors, were using the newer enamel-based paints (on some GM products of this era, you have to look at the data plate on the cowl of the car, and under the "PAINT" header look for the letter "E" or "L" after the paint color code to distinguish between the two).

Once painted, lacquer and enamel finishes are next to impossible to tell apart from each other. HOWEVER, there is a huge difference in how the re-painting process occurs! Basically, almost no other type of paint product can be used over lacquer, besides lacquer. The solvents in almost all current paints and primer products will attack and dissolve original lacquer paints, leaving you with a horrible mess. About the only non-lacquer product that can be put directly over lacquer are epoxy-based primers.

Coating over an original enamel-based paint with other types of modern paints and primers usually presents no problem.

Of course, in all instances, it is assumed that any original clear-coat finish has been removed before re-painting is attempted. Do not attempt to paint over clear coats!

We always recommend removing original finishes completely before re-painting, either via chemical strippers or mechanical abrasion methods. However, if you do not want to do that, then you had better at least determine what kind of paint is on the surface you are going to cover, and you do so in the following manner:

a) sand through any clear coat until you get to the actual color paint. You will know when you are there because the sandpaper you are using will turn the color of the paint! As long as you are sanding the clear coat, the sandpaper may dull but will not change colors. NOTE: clear coats are very thin but can be very durable.

b) now that you have exposed the color paint, use some lacquer thinner (no, neither mineral spirits or "paint thinner" or any other product will not work, it has to be "lacquer thinner") to rub the paint vigorously. If the paint softens and comes off or "colors" the rag or cloth thoroughly, then that's lacquer paint (other paints, such as epoxy, enamels, urethanes, etc. are not attacked or dissolved by lacquer thinner).

Remember, nothing can go over lacquer except for more lacquer (or any epoxy primer-sealer), and we do not offer lacquer paints, and almost no one else does, either. It's an old paint technology and process. However, if your original paint is lacquer, you had better remove it, all of it, every last morsel of it, before you re-paint over it, or you better primer over it completely with an epoxy-based primer.....and hope for the best!

 

Thanks Chacal, looks like I better do some more sanding.

 

If rattle-can paints are all enamels, then why do some paints "attack" and craze other rattle-can paints ??

And how would I know this ahead of time, outside of buying all paints from ONE brand ??

 

Not all spray cans are enamel.Spray cans are usually labelled with the type of paint they are, ie lacquer, enamel, polyurethane. In the past I've painted acrylic enamel over lacquer with no averse affects, yet I've painted polyurethane over lacquer and had it all crackle. Typical chemical reaction. Professional painters all stick to the same system (manufacturer) no matter what type of paint their using. That's from primer to clear coat. Each of these are designed to work with each other. Personally I'm going to investigate more on some of the new paint systems that have come out in the last few years.

 

Lacquer - is that what we call cellulose paint over here ?

 

I don't believe so. It appears in GB cellulose is banned for most uses. There is Nitrocellulose lacquer, as the name suggest it contains cellulose. Gibson likes to paint their guitars with it, to get a high end finish.

 

This is interesting. I bought some 'cellulose' and a small gun to repaint my a100 tank a few months but haven't yet got around to it partly because I grew to like the patina and original decals on the old girl. The original reason being that I understood that it was/is fuel proof and easy to work with (less dangerous) than the 2k isocyannte epoxy stuff that you can still get here 'under the counter'.

As far as I know the EU has tried to ban high-VOC paints in general in favour of water based paint which I guess are polyurethane or acrylics - right ? I'm pretty sure there's a bundle of money to be meade from DIY painters looking for fuel resistant paint straight from a rattle can..

JS

PS I read that the main problem of 2k is not Cyanide poisoning as the name might suggest, but in fact occupational asthma which has a cumulative effect.

 

I did a nice job with rattle cans on a 1982 seca650 tank. sanded to bare metal,duplicolor self etching primer 2 coats.
duplicolor gloss black acrylic enamel 2 coats, duplicolor acrylic clearcoat engine enamel 2 coats. wet sanded to
2,000 between coats and topped off with mothers carnauba wax. Looks great,almost professional,but when I first put gas
in it, I noticed the small gas drips eating the finish.
I am going to strip the wax and add another clearcoat.
If I wet sand the acrylic enamel clearcoat on it to 1,000 grit
what new clearcoat would be resistant to gas and bond with the acrylic enamel underneath it ???

 

Two years ago I took the tank down to bare metal with aircraft stripper, prepped the metal, primed it with 3 coats of Duplicolor black primer, the 5 coats of Duplicolor Universal Black. Lightly sanded between coats with 2500 grit wet/dry with water. I used 2K Spraymax Aerosol as a top clear coat and to "gas proof" the tank.
http://www.spraymax.com/index.php?id=361&L=1
Managed to do two coats with the spraymax. Came out great, has a very nice gloss and luster to it, and has held up well. Still looks like it did when I fist did it.

 

We sell spray can lacquer at work. I did not know that about the attacking, though, it’s interesting. noted: bare metal it is lol.

 

this is the only type of clear coat in a can worth a damn
I have used it and totally covered my tank with fuel
no issue at all...
it is pricy but worth it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastwood-2K...=100011&prg=11353&rk=2&rkt=10&sd=361070096176

 

This is one of my projects, a 1939 Buick. While it is NOT a show car and never will be, it is a regular driver and,,, it's painted with the evil Unobtainable lacquer paint. First lacquer IS available in aerosol (usually basic colors) MAKE SURE THE LABEL SAYS "Lacquer" if it doesn't, it's not!
Second, everyone says there is no more lacquer, BS!
Go to an INDUSTRIAL paint store and tell them that you need Lacquer to paint "EQUIPMENT" do not mention cars bikes etc. your hooked up. Sand lightly lay it on wet buff with 1000 or steel wool repaint resand repaint about 3 coats and it looks like glass when you compound it out! Good luck

 

Nice. i gotta look into that stuff. A quality clear in rattle is hard to find.

 

lacquer in a quart size from advance auto
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...0/7141541-P?searchTerm=paint+quart#fragment-1
if you can beg, borrow or steal a compressor, get a cheap air gun from harbor freight and some real PPG 2 part car paint. you'll never be sorry.

 

That's because it's a two part catalyzed polyurethane - http://www.eastwood.com/paints/2k-aero-spray-paints.html

Just remember that it uses an isocyanate activator and make sure you're wearing appropriate protection.