Triple tree, torque wrenches, balls and rollers.

I need help. I'm hoping someone can steer me in the right direction!! (No more stupid jokes...I promise, that's what happens when Benny Hill is your favorite actor)

I have a 1986 XJ700SC (California edition with the extra vents in the carbs and the charcoal whatever it is)
3 years ago, a month after I bought the bike, I slid out. I was doing 40-50 mph, leaning hard into a bend, hit the throttle coming out. I'm pretty sure I passed over a large, raised, 2' x 3' storm drain cover. I have attributed this to a tank slapper based on a couple of previous wobbles.

I rebuilt the bike including the triple tree and have been out on short rides at the weekend. Tires, brakes, wheel bearings, forks etc. I've not gone over 60 and not been on the freeway. Ridden over 300 miles. I followed all the instructions and read everything I could from the forum but the 15 to 25 pound torque wrench advice seemed to be off?? After the first couple of rides I felt what I believe was a little hint of a wobble. It's hard to explain but it's like a little moment of lightness, like the handlebars are not really decided which way they want to go. So I took a punch and tightened the lock ring(I loosened all the relative hardware) and got about another full turn!! After that the lightness was gone. Now, if I take my hands off the grips I slowly begin to veer left.

So now I've stripped the front end and I'm doing what should be final adjustments. I have an aluminum plate from work to do the alignment. I have a feeling I'm pretty close to where I need to be but I have a couple of questions.

Number 1, should I really be accelerating coming out of curves, I'm leaning and probably have most weight on the back wheel and I always thought it would push me down into the turn and give traction to the tires. If the bearings were loose this would lift weight off the front and that's not good!!

Number 2, When I stripped my triple tree I had rollers in there already. Were these factory originals??? Or did the PO put them in???

Number 3, Somewhere in the forum, in one of the excellent rebuild posts, it mentions that the torque value is where the XJ steering gets it's damper effect. So if I tighten the lock nut until all the play is gone I am at the beginning of the "damper effect" adjustment range. From there the end of the range is "too tight" where I would feel something other than smooth travel. If I find that range can I set my preference as long as I stay within the range???

Right now I think my tree is a bit too tight but I would appreciate all the input and expertise the forum can spare.

Cheers mates.

 

If you're accelerating out of curves you HAVE to be smooth on the throttle and know your sweet spot otherwise you will lowside very easily. I always very lightly accelerate through turns but never in a jerky motion. Its good to keep light throttle so your rear suspension stays in its sweet spot and can push to give you traction, not only soak up bumps

As for as your triple tree, can't say I know

 

it's not unusual to have to re-torque the head bearings after a few hundred miles. then they should be set and not need attention.
pretty sure oem bearings are ball, all mine were.
i don't think the bearings were meant to be steering dampers. bearings are bearings and dampers are dampers.
with the wheel off the ground you want the bars to slowly fall to either side, not flop and not need pushed. they say test that without any cables or wires but you can fudge that a little.
any time you accelerate you take weight off the front wheel, if the bearings are loose or not

 

Yes, all XJ600 Seca II, XJ700, XJ750-X, all XJ900, XJ1100, and all XS1100 models came with tapered rollers from the factory.

 

so what your saying is, those bikes have no balls.



i couldn't resist that

 

Strangely enough, I understand why.....

 

OK this is good information...thanks to all. Two down and one to go. Easy on the throttle and the PO didn't retrofit the rollers.
But question number three is still confusing me. If I can quote this from TheHound's April, 2009 rebuild.

I have an update:<br>
I had some questions on installation of my bearings.<br>
Chacal refered me to his manufacturer.<br>
After talking with the owner, here is what I found out.<br>
These tapered roller bearings should be torqued to between 15 and 25ft/lbs.<br>
In this way you are using the spanner nut as a damper for the steering.<br>
15ft/lbs being loose, 25ft/lbs being tighter steering.<br>

If I use that quote for the range of adjustment and add my own personal preference of nothing under the high limit, ie 25.0001ft/lbs, then I should be satisfied that it's as good as it gets??

So I have one last question,

Is it possible to get the tree "too tight" and if it is possible, what are the consequences?

 

It is possible to get the bearings set too tight. It is also necessary to make sure the bearings are seated, then back off the nut and retighten to set the preload. If the bearing preload is too tight you will have a motorcycle that is less willing to self correct the unavoidable minor steering inputs that come from simply going down the road. If the steering can't self correct the machine will be less stable (in extreme cases of excessive preload), and not as willing to change direction (it will act much like a motorcycle with notches in the bearing races does).

Setting preload does not need to be a game of following preset torque values (though it can be). Follow Polock's reccomended method. It is a good idea to recheck the bearing preload after a few hundered miles.

FWIW the FSM calls for tightening the lower nut to 18 foot pounds, then backing off 1/4 turn before tightening the upper nut until it locks the lower nut into place.

 

So I pulled out the manual. Probably should have done that in the beginning but I've always believed the best advice was on the forum and the manual was just another way the PO and Yamaha could torment me. Sure enough the manual has lived up to it's threat. It says the final torque value is, "...4.3 ft-lb ????



The instructions are...torque down to 36 ft-lbs, loosen, and re-torque to 4.3ft-lbs. That's a little more than finger tight on a pair of 6 inch channel locks...right...or am I completely mad (don't answer the last question, there's no bonus points for getting that right)

 

I've used a drift and hammer to set them for a few decades now.

You're worrying a bit too much. The bearings aren't supposed to have much preload. They need to move smoothly and freely in order for the motorcycle to self-stabilize when underway.

 

OK, I'm happier now. I've picked up; "don't be a jerk", "fudge a little", "I never had any balls", and "self stabilize when underway". Words to live by if ever I heard them.
Once again the forum scores big.

Thanks guys, !!!