No neutral?

So I've been riding my 81' XJ650 for about a week now, runs great. Tonight I went out for a couple hour ride and stopped for gas. When I went to leave, my bike would not go into neutral for me to start the bike. Has never given me trouble until tonight. It took about 10 minutes of tinkering with the shifter to finally get the light on. Got the bike home and now it will NOT go into neutral at all. Every other gear shifts fine. Any answers?

Thanks

 

this thread may be your answer
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/transmission-issue.59920/

and this thread
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/stuck-in-gear-transmission-problem.65029/

 

Hopefully it's just a broken shift return spring.

 

Yep...that neutral "safety" switch/relay is awesome isn't it.

hmm I'm sure someone said before it was unlikely to fail eh Moe?

Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your gearbox but there's a few of these "safety" switches on the bike that can fail or put you in a bad spot IMHO.

You can remove/bypass the relay for this and it will let you start the bike in any gear. I've done it with all these safety switch on the bike cos i trust myself more than 30+ year old electrics but it's a personal choice. I've been riding for 25+ years and have my own sub-conscious safety habits. My main rule being that I never start a bike without sitting on it.

If you want to do it I recommend you consult the wiring diagram and identify which wires you need to connect together at the relay to bypass it. Cut the wires with enough still sticking out the relay so you can re-wire it back together if you need/want to. Then you just simply connect the correct wires together and job done.

If you don't want to do it permanently I still recommend you do this but don't cut the wires - instead carefully shave the insulation off and then tape back over them. Now create a short jumper wire with crocodile clips on either end and tape it under your seat. Now you have a ready made bypass tool for every one of these relay's that can stop you from starting a perfectly good bike when you're miles from home without a pub in sight.

 

Which wires would need hooked together?

 

Is it really a case of not finding neutral or a neutral switch problem? Can you find neutral and roll the bike with the clutch out? Option 2 when you were at the gas station would be to just pull the clutch in, this will also enable the starter cutoff relay and allow you to start the bike using the starter with it in gear. Have you ever tried starting it with it in gear and the clutch pulled in to verify functionality?

Since your version does not have the side stand safety switch the safety circuit should never leave you stranded.

 

Unless the little pin on clutch switch is broken and bike thinks you haven't pulled lever ,but you get no neutral light so maybe both causing problem?

 

On my 81 650 with the relay in place it would not start at all in gear no matter if I pulled the clutch or not. Perhaps something was broken but I don't think so.

You should have:

R/W - Red and White x 2 ( starter motor ).
Sb - Sky Blue ( Neutral Switch ).
Black - Ground or Earth (depending on where you live).

The light-blue wire comes from the neutral switch and tells the relay to connect the R/W wires together. The black is a ground.

So if you disconnect the relay and just connect the R/W together you'll always have a complete cct (unless something else is breaking it like the kill-switch) and will be able to start in any gear - you may also be able to start with the clutch out and IN gear too which if you're not sitting on the bike may result in it taking off down the road and diving through the front window of Mrs Johnson at number 42 spilling her tea and ruining her best china.

 

The bike will only start when the clutch is pulled in. I went through all the gears by hand instead of my foot, in case I was just missing neutral due to my big foot, nothing. I somehow was able to get the neutral light to come on by moving the shifter with my hand. Shifts smooth when riding, in all gears. It just doesn't have neutral...grrrrr.

 

So to be clear; you cannot put the transmission into a state where none of the gears are engaged?

And to add some further clarity; When you move the shift lever up from first it will go straight into second, even when only moving the lever through 1/2 of its travel?

 

That's correct k-moe. It's like the neutral is just not there. I've went through all the gears by hand and cannot find a "neutral zone". At first I thought the neutral light just burnt out, but that's not the case. The motor sounds fine. It shifts fine in all the gears...I don't know, I'm lost.

 

it's easier to get neutral from second than from first, don't know why, just is. if you tried by hand and can't find neutral, motor off, clutch out, rocking it back and forth, it's time to pull the cover off.
there's a cam looking thing in there with one screw in the center and a roller that goes into the cam notches. you'll see five notches for the gears and one shallow notch for neutral. if the roller is in the shallow notch and it's not in neutral......you got problems

 

Ok so to be clear, drain the oil and pop the cover off? I've never messed with a clutch before...

 

you want to take off the cover under the shifter. look for 4,2 and 6 here http://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/a/yam/50042023f8700209bc786d73/shift-shaft-pedal
then look for the roller on 3 to mesh with one of these http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/NSR/forsale/specialshift_drum.jpg

 

So after letting the bike sit for about 24 hours I go out and fiddle with it today. Gave me no problems. Went into neutral every time. I even took it out for a ride and played with the neutral out on the road. Went into neutral every time. I did notice sometime I have to roll the bike back in forth just a little to find neutral but other than that it's working just fine. Maybe it was the boots I was wearing the other night keeping me from finding the neutral. Still weird that I couldn't find it by hand, but it was about 1 AM. I'll keep you guys posted if anything else happens...

 

must have been the nut that connects the grips to the seat

 

Lol must have been Polock!

 

Ya. The gears have to either be lined up, or rolling for the transmission to shift. Sometimes you do have to roll the bike a bit. Motorcycles don't have synchronizers.

 

So I took it out again tonight for a test ride (50 miles or so). It did it again when the bike was warmed up. This time I noticed that the neutral is there, just the light is not coming on? What would cause that? It works for a bit then stops...

 

Either the switch is dirty, or there is a loose wire or break in the wire, or the bulb has poor contact.

 

Well I guess it's time to do some work then. Where is the neutral switch located on these bikes?

 

The switch is directly below the shift drum, on the underside of the engine, in a recess that is partialy blocked by the frame rail. On the Maxim you can access the screw that holds the wire terminal, and just barely get the switch out without needing to take the exahust off (IIRC). Here's to hoping that it's just a problem with the wire, because it is PITA to get to that switch.

 

Sorry to say but you're going to have to read and understand the wiring diagram. It's not that hard.

Check the terminations on each end as well as the bulb and pray it's not a short inside the harness.

 

Actually he can just use a jumper wire to connect the terminal end of the neutral switch wire to ground. If the bulb lights up the problem is in the switch. If the bulb doesn't light up then he can check the bulb. If the bulb is good then he can check the the harness.

 

That's what I meant by "checking each end" - it's good to know how the cct works though to troubleshoot further.