Hello! and a few problems with my 32 year old Seca

Hi everyone; my name is Clay and I purchased a 1982 seca XJ550RJ in red yesterday. This is my first bike and my family's 5th in the collection. I hope to restore it to a nice condition, replacing rubbers and worn parts as well as tuning up the engine and mechanical devices on the machine. Anyways, the point of this post is that on my 2 hour ride home I noticed a few problems that I need expert help to diagnose.

The most annoying and embarrassing is the electrical starting problems. Whenever I hold the starter button, the oil level light always comes on until the engine reaches its idle rpm. Not sure if this is normal or not, but I assume so. I also assume that this means that my button is clean enough and working properly. Now the trouble is that I have several different things that can happen. If the engine is cold, it will sometimes light up but not start, sometimes do nothing, and sometimes only turn over if I hold the throttle at about 1/8, but it then cuts out so soon there's not even enough time for the engine to start. If the engine is nice and hot enough to sear my fingers, no problems whatsoever. This is where I don't know if it's the relay or solenoid, or some mechanical problem like a vacuum leak or fuel distribution problem, as sometimes it takes a few seconds to fire up while using about half throttle.

Anyways, once I get it started, any more than half choke kills it, and there's this noticeable knocking sound correlating in speed to the engine rpm. I currently believe that it is just in need of a valve adjustment. I would have done it tonight, but I was riding it all day and it burned me a few times while I was polishing and cleaning it. So it was definitely too hot to adjust.

The most serious and safety oriented problem I have, though, is that it pulls to the left and right at low speeds. Especially on uneven surfaces like gravel, it will randomly pull either left or right, so much so it almost sent me to the ground when I first rode it (I was very worried about dropping my new thousand dollar masterpiece- imo.) I thought it was a flat tire, but after stopping at a gas station and filling them to 35 psi each, it got worse somehow. This leads me to think there's something wrong with my suspension or a misalignment in the rear tire or something. I haven't checked the chain straightness yet, so that could be something to look into, but I'm just not sure if a crooked rear tire would cause this.

Moving on, my rear drum brake indicator is broken off, but I can see that it would be very close to the rear side of the mark (the replace side, right?) I'm starting to worry that my brakes are so rusty and nasty that they could lock up, but it seems to function normally for all I can feel and tell. I was able to lock it up and release it no problem moving at speed, but I'm not sure if it's worth looking into getting new shoes and tearing the whole rear wheel apart just to do fix that didn't need to be addressed.

I know this sounds like a lot of major issues and this is becoming a huge wall of text, but I will need to get these answers for my safety and motorcycle wellness.

Compared to our other motorcycles, it has lots of torque from 2.5k to 8k, but almost no torque between 8 and 10 thousand rpm. It's like when you walk too deep into the ocean and there's that drop off, except with horsepower and torque. I suspect this could be normal, but why didn't they lower the redline to 8000 if 8-10000 is useless. It might be a carb issue, but I really suspect that my partially dry rotted carburetor-to-engine joints are causing this. I think that when there is enough pressure to suck in air through the holes and cracks, it runs too lean and loses power. It feels a lot like detuning a fuel mixture on a boat carburetor while at speed. Just a loss of power at high rpm's.

The last thing (thank goodness there's a light at the end of the tunnel) is not too bad. I have an inaccurate tachometer below 6000 rpm. Above 6000, it works like a champ and I feel super confident in my high speed shifts, but it will often deviate by 1000 rpm based on my throttle usage. Typically, using no throttle drops the rpm by 1000, using more than half throttle drops it the same amount, but 1/4 to 1/2 is fine and accurate. The cable on the meter backed out partially and then fully on my way home, so naturally I was terrified that a piece of the rubber had broken off and popped into one of my combustion chambers, wreaking havoc. But that wasn't the case, obviously.

Hoping to hear back from you all soon! Very much looking forward to tuning up my new motorcycle and taking very, very good care of it. I'll probably add a new post in the appropriate forum area to tell you about what I've done to it so far if anyone would read it and find it interesting.

 

Don't take old brakes for granted, inspect and replace rear shoes and your original rubber brake lines up front. rebuild your front calipers, they could be hanging up.
About the pulling one way or the other, check the head bearings for play and look at the swing arm bearings to see if they are loose. There has to be a wheel alignment issue there to make it pull like that. Check the date codes on your tires. If they are old you are going to want to replace them even if the tread looks ok.
The electrical on these bikes need attention. Fuse box replacements/ upgrades and every connector should be inspected, cleaned, and treated with dielectric grease. Replace any damaged or corroded connectors. XJ4Ever up in the right hand corner of this page has everything you need. In his catalog there is lots of information you can refer to in the process of doing all of the maintenance that should be done.

MN

 

^^^ what he said^^^
Read this:
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-information-overload-hour.27544/

Go over what MN-Maxims said and do it meticulously.
There are "How To" links within the text of the Information Overload Hour, that should answer any questions.

Then go to Church:
http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/in-the-church-of-clean.14692/


Ask questions here, in no time at all your family will be jealous of your skills and the bikes beauty and raw power.

 

Reviewing your steering problem again, if you have the bike up on the center stand and have someone sit on the bike so the front wheel is off the ground. Lift up on the front wheel and see if the head bearings are loose, then spin the wheel to see if the brakes are hanging up. Spinning the wheel will also give you and idea about the condition of the front wheel bearings which can wear out and give trouble too. I had one break up and lock up the front wheel just as I turned into my driveway. Scary to say the least.
One more thing check to see if the tripple trees are tight on the fork tubes and that the forks stay straight and true when turning back and forth.

 

[QUOTE="MN-Maxims"[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your quick replies, MN-Maxims. I just checked the rear swing arm and it doesn't move around at all and the chain is perfectly straight. I'll probably be replacing the tires because they're OLD. Now taking off my rear wheel to inspect the brake shoes and drum. Thanks to you too, Stumplifter for the awesome links.

 

Thanks for your quick replies, MN-Maxims. I just checked the rear swing arm and it doesn't move around at all and the chain is perfectly straight. I'll probably be replacing the tires because they're OLD. Now taking off my rear wheel to inspect the brake shoes and drum. Thanks to you too, Stumplifter for the awesome links.[/QUOTE]

while you have the rear wheel off check your rear wheel bearings and sprocket bearings

your starting problem may be the voltage /battery you will find the charging specs in the info overload

 

I'm starting to think that too, because it will not turn over at all until the battery voltage recovers from the last start attempt. I think the current battery was sitting for about 4 years so yeah I'm going to buy a new one soon.

 

Ahh, I figured out what the knocking sound is. It only happens in neutral with clutch out. Not sure if dogs are knocking together or what but it sure is annoying. If I need to fix it, let me know, but I don't plan on doing anything at the moment.

 

Having been down the road that you are on I will offer this advice.

Ignore all of the problems.

Instead pick a system to address and work methodicaly. Systematicaly work through all of the systems of the motorycle (frame, electrical, drivetrain, fueling, etc.).
Doing so will ensure that every problem is addressed, and any overlooked issues are also tended to. Trying to fix so many individual faults will have you chasing your tail.
If you are diligent you will have a road-worthy motorcycle by springtime.

The Seca 550 is a little powerhouse of a motorcycle (for the time). As you noted it is torquey down low, but yours is not behaving correctly up top. The real fun begins above 5,000 RPM, where it begins to pull hard and fast right up to (and a bit beyond) redline.

 

I would take your advice and do that if I didn't really care about riding the bike, but I love to ride, especially this bike being actually mine, and I want to get as much riding done in this season as possible. Maybe it's silly, but that's how my plan has been laid out. "Fix it or it could kill you" is what I have been thinking about these past few days. Basically I have an almost comprehensive list of things to check or fix or replace or tune, and I pick the most important pertaining to safety and then performance respectively, and work on it until it is fixed. I rebuilt the brakes about 4 times today because they kept dragging and I was worried about a lock up. After they kept dragging and sticking after my "repairs," I finally broke down and bought two packets (priced steeply at $.74) of high temperature ceramic disc brake grease to make everything nice and slippery. It finally worked and the front brake no longer drags.

Perhaps I shouldn't ride it at all until it is fully restored, but it's such a great little machine, as you said, it would be a shame to let it sit for another half a year. I would especially like to ride it to class 2/7 days of the week, and take only minimal down time to tear it apart and fix the internals. I'm sure as time goes on and I ride it more and more it will lose its now huge riding appeal and become more of a restoration piece, but until then, I simply want a fully functioning and mid-performance commuter bike.

Once again, this post has turned into more of a rant than a reply, but I guess it's good to get all these feelings out now than to keep them bottled up and make me frustrated or disillusioned with you guys. I know you are trying your best to help me out, but maybe I shouldn't have asked if I'm going to be so closed minded and selectively listen.

I'd like to know if this is an ok way of thinking and restoring, or if I really should slow down and take more time to get things done comprehensively before riding my seca again. I want to have the best results for the long run, so again if this isn't the best way to achieve them please let me know.

P.S.
Also, just because I'm so happy with the results, I painted my "YAMAHA" logo on the ignition cover white and it looks super cool despite using cheap spray paint and a brush that was too large to do so. I was thinking that maybe the Yamaha designers wanted it to be white but they couldn't find the right way to efficiently paint it soon enough.

Just one more appendix: the signal turns off after about 8 flashes when I am coming to a stop. Idling I do not have this issue, but slowing down I guess there's not enough voltage from the battery to maintain the motor (or whatever drives it) working and it turns off. Annoying. Starting to think I need a new voltage regulator as the voltage indicator used to shake around crazily on my way back from ohio, too.

 

You should not be riding at all with suspect steering head bearings, or brakes that have not been rebuilt (unless you fully disasembled the calipers and master cylinder, cleaned the piston bores, and replaced ALL of the rubber parts, then you DID NOT rebuild your brakes even once today).

How much is you life worth?
I suspect that it's worth waiting until next year to be able to ride a safe and road-worthy motorcycle.

As to your turn signals. They have an auto-cancel feature. If the battery isn't going flat as you ride then it is highly unlikey that your voltage regultor needs to be replaced. More likely is that you turned the signals on early and the timer has canceled the signal.

 

I meant to say "cleaned and lubricated" the brake pistons and stuff, sorry for using the wrong term.

It's a good point to wait and not rush into the final phase of motorcycle restoration before even completing the first. I'll be riding it a lot less- mostly to test things and get around only if I must do so.

And thanks for informing me about the auto cancel feature. And about the signals, they seem to turn on a half a cycle late. When I turn the switch, there's a delay equal to the time it takes for the signal to flash before it turns on for the first time. I noticed that my mom's Maxim and her 2002 Rebel is the same way so I assume it's built that way. If so, that's alright I don't want to make it further from stock than it already is. Of course things like after market air filters and batteries are fine but I'm a "purist" as my dad puts it.

Also I'm glad to save another $40 and keep the original regulator, and while on the subject on money, is $90 a fair price for a ready to run SLA battery? Advance Auto Parts has a highly rated 260 CCA battery in stock nearby for that price plus the $10 "core charge" which I assume is a disposal fee for the old one.

I don't mean to be stubborn or silly with you, I really appreciate your intimate knowledge of motorcycles and especially these XJ's, as well as your efforts to help out a stranger stay safe and have a good run with his bike. Hoping to hear from you again soon.

 

Glad you got the brake slides to fee up so the brakes don't drag. Was it just the slide pins they were sticking on?
Just be careful until you can completely overhaul those brake systems.

 

I'm pretty sure the front is in good mechanical condition. After removing a lot of crud from the piston, the brake applies and releases very smoothly and quickly. I'm pretty sure I could lock it up if I pulled hard enough. The tubes are in great shape, but the lever feel a little mushy compared to other, non xj550 bikes. I'm pretty sure there's no air in the lines, but it's possible. The maxim was really bad at one point when air was in the lines, but after 3 hours I was sure I got all of it out, but I could still pull it to the grip easily.

My main concern is the rear drum brake. After seeing bigfitz52's post about them, I tried to open up my rear wheel, but I found the exhaust was in the way of the shaft, so I just put it back together again. I think I already said that they work well, but it could be a false positive pertaining to condition and wear. I just need to know how to remove the rear wheel shaft without the exhaust blocking it to check, inspect, clean, lubricate, or replace the parts if necessary. I'm really hoping to hear about that before tomorrow rolls around.

 

Sorry for the immediate reply to myself, but I just figured out how to get it off: Disconnect the shocks.

 

There ya go! See, you're learning already

 

I'll just leave this here and be done.
http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/why-you-need-to-replace-original-brake-lines-w-pics.41400/

I like that you're stubborn, but you're being stubborn about something that can make you very dead.

 

I think you would take the advice and do that if you really DO care about riding the bike.........

 

Yeah I'm starting to look like I haven't done my research because I haven't :/

What I've been doing is posting before researching, so while it may look like I'm trying to be stubborn, I'm really just misinformed an inexperienced. That's why I signed up here, though.

Anyways, thanks for shedding some light on how little I know so far. I'm glad to be learning.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I spent the last two hours of 22 - 00 disassembling and checking my rear wheel and cleaning the shoes and drum. They're in ok shape. Plenty of meat left on them, so I guess that somewhere in the 14000 miles, they've either been cleaned or replaced. Maybe this is wrong I don't know much apparently.

 

Your starting and dying when twisting the throttle problems are likely carburetors. When I bought my 82 XJ650 it would barely start and then once started would die on throttle. Once very warm it ran much better than cold.

The cure was a complete overhaul of the carbs, adjusting the valve clearances, and synchronizing the carbs. After that, it ran like a scalded dog. In fact, it would start with no problems at below freezing temperatures. I drove it all winter which was a very cold winter. I dressed in several layers and looked like the Michelen man but did not care.

You should open up the master brake cylinder cover and look for gunk. Chances are it is very crusty and should not he ridden until you overhaul the front brake system.

 

Ok, I'll definitely rebuild the carburetors at some point in the future. I tried a little bottle of carburetor cleaner fuel additive, just to see if it would help anything. I have had a slightly better running engine since then, but it is probably just a placebo effect or coincidence.

And I think I'll do a valve adjustment, too. It might quiet things even further (it's already super quiet though,) and extend the life of my engine.

I opened the master cylinder no gunk at all! I was amazed. Just a bit of rust on the metal cover, but that shouldn't get into the system because of the rubber seal. I still scrubbed it as clean is it would go and replaced the fluid and lubricated everything for good measure.

P.S.
Does anyone have any idea what the knocking sound could be in my transmission? It seems pretty serious. It happens most loudly in neutral with the clutch out and sometimes in first when I am stopped with the clutch in. Otherwise it doesn't show up.

 

Quiet valves=DANGER. Nice steady valve clatter=happy engine.

Before doing ANYTHING ELSE, get your valves in spec!!!!!!

You're trying to do things in totally the wrong order.

FIRST, Do your valve clearances
SECOND, do your carbs

Do brakes and tires before taking it out for a spin.its one thing to have a bike really running well, but it better be able to STOP well.

But if you want to do things in your order instead, have at it. You'll eventually figure out you should have first done valves then carbs, as well sooner rather than later.

As a reminder, loud valves are happy valves, quiet valves are like bad farts- silent but deadly

 

THe loud sound could be the primary chain slapping around due to uneven idle due to carbs out of balance (out of sync).

 

Agreed. It very well could be. The 550 has a hydraulic primary chain adjuster (and a true primary chain), so it could be down to a low idle, or a gummed up adjuster.

 

It's starting to sound like I need to pull the engine and do a total makeover. I think you are all expecting me to be a decent mechanic, when in reality, I can't even change oil right. I usually need someone to guide me, so I think I'll ask my BMW uncle for some help. Even though he is very busy he has hundreds of awesome tools to use and I think his help may be necessary.

Accidentally Posted Here...

By the way, I'm adding everything you tell me to the top of my list of things to do, just so I cannot forget them or overlook them before riding very far again.

Also, I will listen very carefully to you guys from now on. I figured I knew some decent amount of how to repair and restore a motorcycle or car but this is really my first job and I've made lots of mistakes over the two years I've been driving and 4 months I've been riding, despite working DIY minimally. Very embarrassing stuff here.

And I never meant to show disrespect, but sometimes my emotions control my writing and when I don't understand (like I have previously stated) I will become irritated for some reason. I also post before taking time to process what information I have received and that's a mistake I need to correct.

 

Before I bought my XJ650, I never worked on a motorcycle. I just followed the instructions in the how-to threads by RickCo and Gamuru and others.

Carb teardown is a weekend. Valve adjustment is a two-part effort. One session to measure. Then order new shims. Then swap the shims that require replacement.

 

Side question that may help the OP...how do you quantify "loud valves" vs "something wrong?" I myself find the question hard to answer, and I've had this bike for 10 years. I'd call my valves "slappy sounding," but what do I know?

 

Well, I heard this noticeable knocking sound, which I now believe is my chain. If it were the valves I would be more concerned, but I don't know about "slappy valves" either. I often think that some bikes have that slappy sound built in, but again "what do I know?"

 

Valves that are in spec will sound like a old Sears sewing machine.

 

Yup--just like a old slappy sears sewing machine

 

I wonder how many of the youngest of us have actually heard a Sears sewing machine ? Let's say that a regular tick-tick-tick-tick is normal and, well, desirable.

 

OK then. It'll sound exactly like this....

 

Yup, that what they sound like!!

 

Ok so my bike sounds more muted than that. Will be performing a valve adjustment soon.

EDIT:

And while the gas tank is off I might as well pull off the carbs and go through them throughout my 4 day weekend.

EDIT AGAIN:

About replacing the brake lines...
What type of brake line should I purchase?
I found one on Amazon for $36 and it's black stainless steel, 34 inches in length, with "Banjo Connectors."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039S8HD2/ref=s9_dcbhz_bw_d0_g263_i1_sh

I'm pretty sure that it will fit but I want to make sure. I measured the brake line on my bike to about 35 inches including the connectors, so I'm guessing that 34 inches will fit it well.

 

i will tell you dont ride it with out everything being fixed i have gone through 3 motors on my 550 ( it was my first bike as well ) i thought if it moved and stopped it meant it was good enough. acually had my front brakes lock up on me once and made me dump it.

 

Well I'm a bit irritated. Took my gas tank off but had to cut a wire to get it out. After about an hour I finally removed the carb rack, and... wait for it...

EVERY SINGLE SCREW IS STRIPPED ON THE CARBURETORS

I'm so sad because all I could do was spray some carb and choke cleaner down in there and hope it did something. That was probably a stupid mistake, but at this point I'm so disappointed in my skills it just blends in with all my other sad feelings.

Anyways, I just put it back together and now I can't get on the quick disconnect onto the gas tank green wire because it's not cooperating. Tried it 3 times and somehow broke off almost all the wire there. My "new" bike just sits in pieces like my happiness...

I'm about to give up on mechanic work in general.

 

The carb screws are JIS (Japenese Industry Standard) which look like Philips screws but they are not. So now you are looking at a complete hardware kit from xj4ever.
Just one more thing to add to the carb rebuild parts list. Your bike being old as it is you should expect some PO problems that will need to be corrected.
Don't give up there are lots of people here that use our knowledge to get through
The process. Take pictures and post them and you will get input on how to deal with most issues.
Time to pick one part of the bike and focus until you move on to the next issue. One thing at a time is the best way to approach re commissioning an old motorcycle.

 

Alright, I've calmed down now. Sorry for posting so much but I want to end on a positive note. I got the bike running again and the gas tank was a success after I pulled out the wire totally and clamped the new connector directly on the little terminal. It started leaking fuel very quickly at first but it fixed itself after it ran for a few minutes. Even took off the choke and it idled at around 1100 rpm. Very happy that I didn't do any damage.

 

So glad to hear that the carbs are okay. I will need to find out how to re-shim my valves though. I took off the cover only to find these crazy little discs, which I have never seen or even heard about before. But I'm glad that the forum is such a great place to learn about my motorcycle. Now looking forward to working on it more than I ever have (especially since I can remove the carburetors now!)

 

go to the DIY forum two down from this one on the site and you will see how Big Fitz
Did a whole write up on how to check and re shim your valves.

 

The only way to become a proficient mechanic is to break things; then learn how to fix them.

 

We always learn from our mistakes don't we! And how!

 

Now THIS is what we're talking about! We don't encourage somberness when it comes to wrenching on our bikes. We learn, teach and grow together. Many of us use this forum and wrenching to escape some of the societal madness. 98% of the answers you'll need is here. The other 2% is what you do with them. You've got this.

Or fix something someone else has broken.

Gary H.

 

Here's the best info from the legendary BigFitz52:
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/airhead-valve-adjustment-with-pics.14827/#post-122016
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threa...-the-tool-vs-ziptie-w-pics.29209/#post-249951
Fitz's How-to's are usually a better read then published manuals, even though he doesn't use golden phrases like: "Offer up the assembly to the crankcase..." (guess who was reading Haynes at work again tonight!)

 

I can understand your desire to ride. But at minimum you should address the safety related components first. I would have replaced the rear shoes when the rear wheel was apart. For the $15.00 for new shoes its worth the peace of mind. I would also at minimum replace the front brake fluid with fresh fluid as well.
Next, an uneven fluid level between the two fork tubes may be contributing to your pulling issue. Try to inspect the your fork tubes around the area of the dust boots. See if you see any oil leaking (wet) in this area. But don't take it for granted that there is no leak since it could be it just all drained dry. So best thing to do is to pump the fluid out from both fork tubes. To do this, get a clear container and fill with 7.78 oz of water in order mark the fluid level. Use this pre-measured container to drain the fork fluid from each fork. If you the get 7.78 oz from each fork, then you know there is no leakage. If you have lost any fluid in either fork (a fork measured less than 7.78 oz), then next step would be to replace the fork seals. If you get the correct amount of fluid, then you have peace of mind that the forks are not leaking and you can put fresh 10W fork oil to refill them. At that point you can check off one of the steps recommended for proper maintenance anyhow.

 

Old motorcycles doNOT fix themselves.

Listen to the keen advice given, and SLOW DOWN, you are sounding slightly manic. Jumping from issue to issue in rapid fire sequence is for pit crews not motorcycles.

 

Yep.

OP, I'm in a similar situation as you right now. I just picked up a Seca less than a week ago. Its sitting in the yard. It fires right up, idles a bit rough, but it is somewhat driveable. I am so tempted to take the plate off my XL and take the XJ to work (1.2 mile commute). I won't though. I figure I have about six or seven months to dub around with it before I can really start cranking out the miles. Going to start with the smaller stuff right now. Like the headlight switch on the handlebar isn't working. Going to grab a test light and figure that out tonight. The directional switch seems all gummed up too; going to take that apart.

As someone that has dumped tens of thousands of dollars into vehicles in the matter of months, do it right the first time. If you don't, you'll go bankrupt trying to keep up with the stuff you glanced over; perhaps even killed. My suggestion? Before the bike is even in the shop, clean it up. Sweep the floors and organize the tools. Brush off the bench and clear an area that you can remove a smaller piece off and work on it off the bike. Done that? Alright, now grab that old Sony boombox with the dual tape cassette player and find the classic rock station. Good. Now, roll the bike into the shop and focus on one area of the bike. Ignore the rest of the bike for now. Take your time and do it right the first time. Lube what needs to be lubed. I live way north so rust is a big issue here; I'm a firm believer in anti-seize. Removed a part that could use a touch up of paint? Alright, sand that down and head to your local auto parts store. Grab a color of paint that you think will work. You get the point? Work section by section. Sure, you're going to lose out on about a month of riding. It sucks. But come this spring, you'll have a ride that you've been tinkering with for about six months. After spending a solid week getting the carbs tuned, it now idles perfectly and runs like a raped ape at 10k. Cruising along and that dumbass on the cell phone backs out of his driveway without looking? Well good thing you spent that Saturday evening to flush out your brakes and rebuild the caliper because you have about 11' to stop while going 60mph.

Take your time. This is not an overnight project like setting up the DVD player at your woman's apartment.

 

Somebody just this week posted what he found when he checked the brakes on his new purchase ... THERE WEREN'T EVEN ANY PADS IN THERE! Never trust the previous owner's word. Inspect and repair every safety system as though YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!

 

My goodness, it's hard to believe !

 

PO Syndrome strikes again like the guy who bought a 650 filled to the top with oil and the guy who sold it could not figure out why it would not start.

The fact is these bikes are so old and who knows what was going on. That is exactly why its important to look at everything on your bike when you buy one.