Relay's or not to Relay...

I am working on wiring up my xj650 with the motogadget m-unit and I think i have a solid diagram for the harness in my head. The only issue i am facing is trying to work in the side stand and neutral switches into it.

The way motogadget advises to set it up is using the aux output and connect the switches to the unit and it will shut off the aux port. My issue with that is everything connected to aux will get shut off. Including my running lights and tci. If the side stand switch goes faulty its a easy fix, but i don't want to be on the side of the road with no lights.

So my question is, can the side stand switch be connected as a toggle by connecting it the red tci wire or do i need to use the relay?

The second question is is there a safety concern with not hooking up the neutral switch?i am afraid i might not be able to look this in to the unit.

I'll try to draw out the diagram later today.

 

Maybe you need a special motogadget red wire relay.
Neutral switch is a must, how will you ever know when to stop down shifting.
Doesn't Mr gadget make a ding-ding neutral bell.

 

Aren't the side stand and neutral switch only used for cutting off the starter? I wouldn't want any additional risk shutting my TCI down while riding if a switch/relay/etc. fails. That said, you should be able to utilize those safety switches by wiring it into the starting circuit and shouldn't have anything to do with the motogadget.

 

I was hoping i could do it without using a relay. If i do i would rather use one that came on the bike.

 

The side stand switch cuts off the tci and shuts down the bike. Neutral i believe does double duty by disabling the starter and adds a variable to the sidestand that lets it shut down the tci when it goes into gear. Was hoping there was a way to wire it without the use of relays.

 

I guess i will have to settle for this...

 

The picture isn't showing.

Gary H.

 

showing for me.

 

Hmmm
you better use the clutch if it's in gear and the side stand is up when you push the start button

 

I see it.

Gary H.

 

there must be a reason for the diodes but i don't know what it is.

 

I don't see the point of the diodes either, the relay will energize if either switch is closed.

What's your goal? I assuming these scenarios:

• Bike starts in neutral without pulling clutch
• Bike starts in gear when pulling clutch
• Bike shuts down if shifted out of neutral with side stand down

You can do it without relays but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish first.

 

I don't think that is a diode, the image is supposed to be the inside of a relay.

That is exactly what i am trying to do. I want to keep all the safety measures without the use of relays.

 

It can be done. You using the v1 or v2 motogadget? I can draft something up later tonight.

 

Thank you so much! I am using v2

 

I lied about the no relay thing, of course you could use a transistor but I'd rather have an automotive duty relay instead of some homemade circuit board rattling around on a bike.

This should give you all the scenarios discussed above. You can reuse the existing sidestand relay but none of the others. If you purchase new, you need a NC (normally closed) or a 5 pin that has both the NO and NC pins. You'll need a couple diodes but again you can repurpose the existing diode block if desired.

I added a config button. Optional but easy to place under seat etc. to change your brake or turn signal programming as you wish.

Hope this helps.

 

I just re read your first post. To avoid having a side stand switch issue killing your taillight, you can also connect the relay to the black/white wire on the TCI. That will shut the bike down without killing through the motogadget. The only potential issue is this config would allow the bike to crank in a sidestand down/in-gear/clutch pulled in scenario as the motogadget will not have received the shutdown signal via the config terminal. You could also just ditch the side stand switch, many new bikes still don't have one. That would eliminate the relay and both diodes. You would retain the neutral and clutch safeties.

 

whats a motogadget m-unit i googled it nice
links on how to wire it
http://108.163.194.210/~dbbpcom/dbbp/tech-tips/cb13/wiring.jpg

 

True, but the first left hand turn you make with the sidestand forgotten in the down position may be the very last thing you ever do........

 

always wondered why the side stand switch was there.....

 

I don't understand why this motogadget thing exists. Just what does it do for
275$

 

+1..... I rode my 650 for several years with a disconnected side stand switch. Until a local motorcycle shop owner got killed when he was making slow left turn in town on his bike with a kickstand down.... He got tossed, head bounced on the edge of the sidewalk curb---- now he's on the wrong side of the grass. I fixed mine the next day.

Dave

 

This is great Thank you! The kickstand and neutral switch was the last piece of the puzzle. Question tho, What if i did the sidestand relay on the main line to the tci, would it work? That way if by chace the switch goes while riding I still have my tail and headlight.

 

The m-unit is supposed to replace all relays, fuse box, be a tail and headlight modulator, alarm, and has accessories for an rfid ignition. yes its pricey, but if you add up all those items its more $$ and takes up more space.

 

You can do that and switch positive to the TCI (use the normally open contacts instead) or you can run the black/white wire from TCI to relay. Grounding that wire will shut it down as well.

 

looks like a box of "idiot lights" that tell you whats wrong. you hook it to your power source and run your wires for everything from it

 

I am wiring everything up now i'll let you know how it goes. thanks again for your help.

 

Please take pictures and post them. I watched couple vids on u-tube but I'd like to see one installed on a xj. Interesting.

Gary H.

 

I hit a road block wiring up the kill switch and kickstand. The way the m-unit works is by interpreting the ground pulses from switches. When i wire up the kill switch and switch it to the off position it interpits the grounding as a switch signal and turn the aux on. When its in the on position the line is live and shuts the aux off. its works... just not the way i intend it too. Now it might also be how i wired it, but i followed stock and the minimal wiring diagrams.

Same goes for the kickstand but that actually gets treated as a button. kick stand goes up its shuts off, goes down it turns on, but if i do it fast enough it will turn off and stay off unless i bring the kickstand up for 3 seconds and back down to reset the terminal.

It looks like for our bikes the best bet is to not use the m-unit for the side stand or the kill switch and wire all safety cutoffs via the relay/diode block + directly to the tci.

Since my bike isnt wired to start yet, i cant test the current relay setup until next weekend. I'll be in Baltimore this weekend visiting the inlaws.

everything else the m-unit is awesome. i like it.

Just curious, is it smart to handle all the necessary ground connections in the headlight bucket 1 main 14 AWG wire with a bunch of 16 awg splices? I am trying to minimize the wiring going to the head.

 

How did you end up wiring it? In the last post we talked about running the power for the TCI or grounding the TCI through the relay, so the side stand should have nothing to do with the M Unit.

There is a note in the manual regarding this: "To release the kill function hold the button
again for 2 seconds or switch ignition lock off and on again. If a kill switch is used wait for 2
seconds between switching engine off and release the kill switch." so it sounds like using the config term to shut it down is working as designed.

If you want to use the factory kill switch in a standard manner, you can run that inline with the relay in the diagram I drew up prior. I don't mind drawing up another but I'm curious how you have it now.

 

I have the kickstand wired to the tci like you have above but i have the red/white striped wire going to the coils spiced and wired to the relay and the line out to the ground on the tci. I also disconnected it from the clutch switch and is independent of them.

The handlebar kill switch i want to try to make it work without having to use another relay. not sure if that's possible.

When you first setup the m-unit you have to choose the configuration for a japanese bike, if not all of the switches behave wonky. I was hoping that by setting the config it would also make the kill switch and side stand work like it should.

Next weekend i plan on wiring in the regulator and i should be able to start it up to test the side stand switch and kill switch. right now i dont know how to test it without starting the bike

 

I'm confused on this.

Yes it is, I will modify my previous drawing later for you if interested.

The mode setting does not affect the kill switch functionality (mode E allows for an alternate input for a limited button config). After reading through the manual and application, I believe it is best to use the m gadget to power the ignition circuit and leave all safety/kill switches handled separately. The config terminal simply does not provide enough functionality outside of a push button killswitch and as previously mentioned, you'd loose your taillights if wired as recommended by them.

I don't know how hacked up your original harness is, but it would be modified to work well with the original safety/kill circuits. This would leave you with two relays but the original design is well thought out. If you were closer I could assist, I enjoy wiring and have made many harnesses.

I'm definitely interested to see how this works out. I seriously considered one of these boxes since I'm a gadget guy and I like the idea of the lighting options along with a simple alarm. I'm already way over budget on my build so it was the easiest thing to eliminate. I may still incorporate the RFID ignition option to deter the lock punch thieves but it isn't foolproof. I also cannot find many reviews on that device either and I'm a little wary of having my ignition shutoff by a device that doesn't have a proven track record.

 

I ripped the entire harness out to rewire the bike. Once i have everything figured out i plan on making cloth covered wires for the bike. All the wires will be black but at the ends I'll use colored shrink wrap to mark each wire. Right now i have most of the bike wired up, all the controls work, clutch/brakes/signals/horn/headlight (3800 Lumen H4 LED Headlight bulb, I love it!), TCI to coils.
I just need to wire up the speedo/tach (Koso BA035K00 Black TNT-01) and wire in the regulator. The regulator i have it mounted to my battery box (tiny 8cell anti-gravity battery) that hangs below the seat. i am torn about cutting the wires to shorten them.

For the tail light i ended up wiring them to the ignition lock, so when i turn the key they turn on and if anything does happen to the m-unit they stay on as a safety measure. just made sense to keep the main power to them independent.

I attached a photo showing where i am placing everything. the bullet connectors i used aren't water proof, so i plan on cutting and and redoing them with proper connectors. I also tried the fancy delphi weather proof connectors but they are just way too big and bulky.

 

This is what I would do then. Slight reconfiguration but the relay becomes your Ignition relay. I also changed the clutch wiring a bit so the bike will not crank if the kill switch is off. Ideally you would do the same for the neutral switch but it is a one wire switch so you don't have that choice without a starter cutout relay.

This will give you close to stock operability without the MGadget kill switch limitations.

Make sure you fuse your taillight if running it prior to the mgadget!

Hope this helps!

 

Thank you for this, if i am reading it right... this will shut the bike off even when she is in neutral and i put the kickstand down.

Its making think i cant have both, its either one or the other.

 

Neutral and side stand switch are in parallel, so bike will keep running with side stand down and in neutral

Are you using the M-button as part of your setup?

You could move the kill switch to the ground side of the common connection of the neutral and side stand switch to keep Yamaha logic. Or, you could leave as is and have the only XJ where you don't need to disconnect the TCI or ground plug wires to check compression - just turn the kill switch off and crank away in neutral.

 

Backwards . You'll need to have the side stand up or in neutral or it will shutdown the TCI. You will need to use a different relay than before.

 

How would you do that? The neutral switch is grounded to the engine case.

If it was a concern, the only way I can see doing it without a second relay would be to remove the connection from the neutral and side stand switch to the starter switch. The diodes wouldn't be needed. This would only let you crank it if the safety circuits were satisfied and the kill switch was in the run position, but you'd have to pull the clutch to start regardless.

 

Oops, brain fart on my part from staring at the diagram and not thinking of the physical makeup of the neutral switch. You even mentioned that was the problem in your previous post - my apologies.

 

No worries, wouldn't be the first time I missed something if I did!

 

You are the MAN!!!!! this setup works perfectly! I cant thank you enough.

I wasn't able to start the bike this weekend i ended up modifying my frame to fit a seca 550 tank. To test the setup i hooked up a horn to the relay to test the kill switch and the kick stand. I couldnt be happier. The rest of the setup works too (clutch, kickstand and neutral).

 

Good to hear man, glad you got it going. Keep the updates rolling!

 

I had to take a break from the bike as life got in the way... Found out my wife is 6 weeks preg and we are closing on a house in Columbia MD.

During this time i ordered and install the m-button and i have to say wow this thing is super tiny. well worth the 60 bucks for it. That think dramatically reduced the wire clutter in the headline and through the bike.

To make the installation seriously plug-and-play I shortened the wires and ran them into an 8-plug connector and then did the same for all the necessary wires from the controls and bam plug-and-play!

I also managed to get the bike started this weekend which was awesome but frustrating at the same time. From messing with all of the electronics on the bike and cranking it i drained my battery. So its charging over the week.

The wiring for the tci and regulator really bothers me. mostly the regulator. I just can seem to clean it up without having it all a mess. You can see the mess in the last pic and how most of everything is ran. right now its a pain in the butt to take the battery in and out with that mess of wires up top.

 

Process of elimination.

1. Locate each component.
2. Create a harness for the wiring to each component.
3. Zip tie the harness on the frame with the least amount of travel for wiring to make connections.

Gary H.

 

I might just ignore it for now and just finish the bike and rehash it. I can always reroute the regulator wires in between the neck of the frame and break apart the block connector.

To bad they dont sell smaller tci's or regulator.

 

To be fair, you are trying to stuff everything into the space that once held just the fuse panel. I think it's pretty tidy considering.

 

DAAMN...I need this.

 

+1 on what rocs82650 said for the wiring. I am going through something similar with my 1981 XJ750 Seca, which I am re-wiring from scratch, sadly without the motogadget. My wife had the big roll of green velcro sold to tie off plants. Ill just tear off what I need, then I can temporarily fasten wires to the frame, move wires around with no hassle. Then when I finish it I figure Ill get some of the fancy cloth loom covering, and then break out the zip ties.

 

I've gone this route in my m-unit rewire, but I've run into an issue. I hooked the L/W wire from the starter solenoid to the m-unit "Start" output thinking that was right, but after looking at the stock wiring diagram again, it appears to send a ground signal. Is that correct?

I think that I should have the other R/W wire from the starter relay connected to the "Start" output on the m-unit.

 

Are you talking about a red wire with a white trace, or a white wire with a red trace? White with red is for the battery sensor.