BK's Winter RestoMod Project - 82 XJ650 Seca

Okie doke. I can do that. I also bought some engine assembly oil too.

 

Looks looks you didn't remove the tach drive assembly/gear....

 

Yea, I'll pull that apart after I lap the valves.I already pulled it once, but I'll do it again and blow out anything that may have got in there.

 

I've read your post in another thread which is cool but several of us are also following your build thread. Please post pics and progress updates here so we can see and help as needed.

Gary H.

 

Yea, been meaning to. Been slow going. I have a few pics on the camera but I was going to wait until I had more progress.

First and foremost, the parts came in from Chacal two days after I ordered them. All parts are individually labeled and packaged. Each include a sheet with all the included components. I have a very short list of reputable vendors for automotive parts, computer hardware, and tools. Chacal has hit #1 in the motorcycle vendors. Fantastic resource ya'll have here.

Camera is down in the shop so I won't be able to post any pics yet. But I have four valves all lapped and inserted. All the valve seals are installed. Took a little head scratching to get the old ones out, but after the first two the others were no big deal. Its just too damned cold right now. I have a few two hour blocks here and there, but by the time I get it warmish in there, its time to call it a night. I have Friday and Saturday off and the wife has work. I'll crank the heat and see no reason why I won't have the head back onto the bike by Sunday.

Then I'll be moving onto some more outside things like cables, levers, and brakes. Next big purchase coming up will be the intake manifold.

So yea, a little slow going at the moment. Once I get an 8h block in the shop, I'll come back with some pics.

I appreciate the interest in the build though!

 

You're also member here.

Gary H.

 

Welp, here's an update:


Piston #2 is scored up. No idea where the sleeve went. I'm guessing it been like that for awhile. I'm sure the connecting rod bearings just loved all that metal being sloshed around in there.

Welp. The heads are all rebuilt. Valves are lapped. New gaskets in. Bottom end is junk. There's $400 out the door.

Washing up for the night and I'll start dismantling the bike tomorrow to part out. Maybe I'll get $50 out of it. Lost about $1300 on this project. Nice.

 

Tear it down further and inspect. You may have gotten lucky.

FWIW a titled frame should fetch at least $100.
If you're willing to wait you'll get most of your $1300 out of it.

 

I live in NH. No title requirements here; just BoS.

I don't know man. There's a huge ass chunk missing. Having that thing sloshing around in there had to do something. So now it looks like I'm going to have to rebuild the bottom end too. I'll have to see what the bearings look like. I guess the next step is pulling the motor. I'll then have to replace piston #2 and put a new liner in; not sure how to do a new liner.

I've been in this position before. Its a bleeding wound. Do I just keep going and going, or cut my losses before I get too deep.

 

Here is the discovery:


If I were to replace the cylinder sleeves, how do I even get them out?

 

Not good. I don't know how much further you're thinking about going but I would...

before i consider doing anything else to it.

Gary H.

 

Inspected the situation a bit deeper.

This was all that was in the pan:


The pan was held on with RTV. So someone had been in there before and removed the big ass chunk.




Shitty pic, but the piston doesn't look too bad. No big difference between this one and the others.

This is the next step of the project:


My coworker's husband says he's done those before. He's the same guy that got the broken studs out of the head.

So this is where I am at now:


I have a 5m video that I go more into detail. I'll upload that later on as I have other things I need to do on the computer.

 

It's f@#!'d up if the PO knew about this and didn't say anything. Idk man...at this point I'm thinking a case split is in order (I would). Thataway you can inspect, flush the halves and know the bottom end is ok. Your $, time and effort should be rewarded with a solid bike.

Gary H.

 

In related news, would these fit?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-YAMAHA...9401501?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368#viTabs_0

 

Oh, I'm bullshit. I have the contact information from the guy I bought it from, as well as the guy before. I contacted both of them, and neither claimed to have ever taken the motor apart. They each told me they "got it running". I guess a surgeon could use caulking to put someone back together and say they fixed you with that train of thought. At this point I'm ready to just put it together and run it. If it runs fine, sell it in the spring and ride my XL for the year.

 

Post deleted.

Gary H.

 

Post deleted.

Gary H.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XJ-X...ash=item233570e3db:g:95IAAOxyXVBSOLYY&vxp=mtr

The turbo cylinders have the same bore size, but the ones above seem like a good deal.

 

Here's the video of me going through the motions of what to do. This was before I took a minute to cooldown and go over things.

Nice find. So Maxim jugs will work as well? I'll just go that route.

In the end, I won't be riding this bike come next year. I was really looking forward to it, but I've lost all credibility with it. My Honda has crossed into Canada no issue, and I'd take it again. I'm nervous to even leave town now on the XJ. I'll get some used jugs, slap those in, throw it back together, see what I need for valve shims, and put in new intake boots. The motor isn't going to run any worse, so come spring time it will be a running bike. I'll be happy if I break even.

 

I am curious though, how would this have happened? There's no visible damage to the piston or rod. No scrape marks of a screw driver on the mating surfaces. That has me stumped.

 

Nice videos. Honestly, I've never seen busted sleeves on one of these bikes. For this reason I'm going to shut up, watch and learn. While this...



would be my next move I don't want to recommend unnecessary procedures. I'd also weigh the cost of a machine shop dropping a new sleeve in the existing block against buying a good used one. Looks like k-moe is for the latter. The other gurus (which I'm not) and members will hopefully chime in soon.

Gary H.

 

I ordered a used set of jugs this morning. $66 to my door.

Right now I'm weighing financial gain vs credibility for the bike. I crack it open, and I see bad bearings, then what? Start pumping more money? Right now the plan is get the jugs replaced, throw it together, get it running, and go from there. The initial plan when I bought this bike wasn't to keep it. Run it for a year, maybe, then sell it. The plan is still the same, but instead of riding it I'm just going to sell it for (hopefully) close to what I have in it, and treat this as a learning experience.

 

Most likely there was a nick or some other flaw along the very edge of the sleeve. Something that would have easily been missed during pre-assembly inspection. The other possibility (and I think the more likely one) is that the barrels were mishandled (e.g. dropped) by a PO who had the top end apart. In either case a small crack formed, and grew.

That's one scenario. No consider that something let loose in the bottom end and slammed into the sleeve. You'll find that out when you split the cases.


If you see bad bearings then you can make a decision.

Find used bearings that are still in useable condition (this will make a runner that should be reliable for tens-of-thousands of miles), and get your money out of it by riding the thing.

Part it out and get your money back that way (though it may take a year to sell everything).

 

@Busted Knuckles: Understood.

Gary H.

 

I don't know. I need to sit on it for a few days. I've been in this situation before. Projects keep draining me dry as I rationalize to get them running again. I lost about $10,000 on the 4x4 not too long ago.If I had just kept it the way it was, I'd still have it. This is exactly what happened too. I went to fix one problem, found three more, fix two of those, and found another issue doing those. It just kept spiraling. Past experience is telling me to get it back running, and part with it.

We'll see.

 

on the bright side, you're about to become a XJ expert! the first thing to do is have a mid-project clean up, that nice neat laid out in order method just went out the window. that steel plate in the oilpan hides a bunch of crap, take it off. Your oil is that color because it has water in it, no big deal. other than the jugs and grit in the oil, the only other thing is the broken studs for the head bolts.
i put one together from a box and found a 5 gallon bucket with a gallon of kerosene worked good to rinse off parts. Don't dwell on anything, just do it.
these things are just a few steps up from a lawnmower, you got this.

 

Yea, I'm due for a mid-build cleanup. I tore the motor out in about 45m. I went into bombshell mode. I'll need to regroup and get my bearings again.

The head bolts aren't snapped. Just three weren't threading in easy. The sheathing stuff that was on them fell down into the threaded hole. I removed it all so they're all good now.

Coming from the 4x4 world, these things really aren't all that complicated. The broken sleeve just did a fantastic job at f***ing this up. I'm confident it will run again. I mean, its not like I did anything more to damage the bike. I doubt it will run any worse.

 

You're right there. Once you clean the case and do this

while you're in there you should end up with this

when it's all buttoned up and back together.

Gary H.

 

I did think about doing this, but what happens if I pull it apart like that and notice damage.

All in all, if there is any damage, I'm sure its been done. I mean, what happens if I pull the rods and they're all scored up? Replace the rods? What if the crank needs to be resurfaced? Machine shop? I get hit with the dilemma of putting thousands of dollars into a $1000 bike.

Its hard for me to commit to it, because this exact thing happened to the 4x4. Transfer case was making noise. Replaced the bearings ($250). Still made noise, pulled it apart and cracked the case. Bought a new case ($200 for a spare case). Swapped in lower gears (a deal at $400). Stripped a bolt and had to have some aluminum welded ($150). Lower gears caused too much torque and cracked the case (another $200). Had to buy a special cradle ($400). Extra torque gave me issues with the wheel studs. Sheered them off. Had to buy new axle chromoly shafts ($900). And it just went on and on. In the end all those parts in parentheses ended up selling for $300. And that just one portion of the rig. Don't get me into motors and transmission work. If I had just stuck with noisy bearings from the start I would have never gotten myself into that hole. I still have a few parts left over in the basement from this build that remind of all the money I lost. In the end, this is a $1000 bike. I don't want to end up investing all this money into, a $1000 bike. The time I'm fine with.

All in all, say I split the case and pull all the pistons. If they're scored, I'm not getting new ones. If they're good, then they're good. Same with the rod bearings. If they're damaged, I'm not getting new ones. If they're good, they're good. I say get the jugs, slap it in, shim the valves, install the head, replace the intake manifold, throw on some cheap blinkers, and throw it on CL for cheap money in the spring. While its up on CL, run it 'till it blows.

 

Make sure to let the new owner about the unknown condition of the innards if you are just going to slap new jugs on without checking.

If you tear it down and find parts that need replaced then you are already one step closer to parting the enigne out. The price you get from the good innards will pay for a used engine.

Compromises. It's always about compromises.

 

Of course. They'll be made aware of the issues.

So if I were to tear the motor down, notice wiped bearings, just part the motor out then? Would it fetch much?

 

mmk. one decision has been made. I'm done with this bike. I got jammed hard by someone on CL and I'm left with picking up the pieces.

The Maxim jugs will be here possibly this week. I have two options:

Throw it back together, put it up on CL for short money as a running bike, and try to recoup some of my money.

OR

Part it out. Heads are 100% rebuilt. Carbs are synched and cleaned. No idea what something like that would fetch. Then I have to deal with shipping stuff, the emails, texts, calls, etc.

I honestly just want to throw it together and send it. Its a cheap-ass bike. Its not worth my time or money to get any further into it.

 

Understood.

Gary H.

 

Yep. It sucks. I was really looking forward to riding it. If the sleeve was OK, the motor would be all back together today minus the valve shims. For the time and money I need to throw at this, I can get a different bike in way better condition.

Been dicking around with selling parts online. Amazon doesn't do used parts. eBay has all sorts of small print. I suppose I could post one long ass thread in the for sale section here with the parts. The simpler way would be to slap it together and send it though.

 

Sounds like you're very upset right now which is understandable. I don't think any of us could have foreseen the problems you've encountered with this one (it's very rare). I'm glad you decided to pull the jugs instead of just the head. If you had done just the head and put it back together you probably would be thinking we are all full of sh!t. A lot of members haven't done what you've done in such short time. For those of us that have it is clear you have what it takes to make it a solid bike.

Gary H.

 

Yea, I'm really bullshit. This is not what I signed up for.

Oh, I certainly have what it takes. Its not complicated. I could get a cylinder hone and piston ring compressor for ~$100. Piston rings are $400 from here. No idea about rod end bearings. So, yes, I could drop another grand into the bike and make it a solid bike. Absolutely. Or, I can try to recoup what I have, and spend more money on a better running machine. Something closer to the 1000cc range would be neat too. In the end I really have two outcomes. I could throw something close $3000 and two months of work I'll have into this bike that will have a few "ifs". Or, I can spend $3000 on a bike that is better equipped, is more common, and I feel more comfortable with in the end.

 

poke around Craigslist and look at the prices for "lost intrest, project" and " it ran, clean title" type bikes. Maybe you can save a lot of work just putting the parts in a box.
I'd rather buy a box of parts than a "who knows what" that's put together (actually i did).
there is a lot to be said for bikes made in this century

 

I'm starting to lose sleep over this stupid thing now. I'd love to just load it up in the back of the truck, drive to the guy I bought from's house, and confront him. I see he sells bikes fairly often on CL and his Facebook page.

Just took the wind right out of my sails. I'm hoping the Maxim jugs I got work ok. Otherwise I have no other choice to part it out. Which sucks because I was hoping to have a bigger bike for 2016 that can do the freeway.

 

It'll probably make you feel better but it won't solve the problems.

Finish it and you will.

Gary H.

 

Honestly man, its not worth it. The amount of money it will take to unfuck everything I can just get another bike. Even if I do unfuck everything, I'm sure there is already irreversible damage that has been done. Too much money for too many ifs. I have to cut my losses and walk away. I've been in this situation before. I'm not one for repeating history.

 

Understood.

Gary H.

 

Just curious though, are these the rings I need?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-82-YAMAH...ash=item3cfdb0320a:g:42oAAOSwn51UY8MF&vxp=mtr

I can handle $46 for a set of rings I guess. Been seeing them for ~$300 elsewhere so it is a little odd. I'd have to buy a honing bit and have the jugs measured though.

I'll be down in the shop tonight for a regroup.

 

Those are for a rjc which is a canadian 650 yics engine (same as u.s. 650 maxim). Idk if the bores are the same on the non-yics and the yics tho. I'll look it up when i get home from work if another member doesn't tell you. You could ask Chacal...he'll know.

Gary H.

 

Ah. Just curious, but how can you tell its for the YICS motor?

I'm just not prepared to drop close to $400 on rings for this. BikeBandit has rings for ~$40 per cylinder so I guess that's a little better.

The same guy that help me remove the broken stud offered to do all the measuring on the cylinders as well for proper rings. He's a top notch guy.

The past 24h I've changed my mind a hundred times. I'm sleeping like shit. My attitude is garbage. I just don't know what to do. This guy raped me good and I just don't know what to do from here.

 

The listing is for a rjc. The r=seca, j='82 and c=Canada. The U.S. models are non yics.

Good news. The standard bore size is the same 63.00mm (2.4803") for all 650 models, the service limit for this is 63.10mm(2.4843"),taper limit is 0.05mm(0.0020"), ovality limit is .01mm (0.0004"), piston to bore clearance 0.030mm(0.0012") - 0.050mm(0.0020").

Have your friend check the bore before you buy rings.Hope this helps.

Gary H.

 

So if I'm reading this right, if my clearances are within spec to use standard sized rings, the ones in that eBay ad will work?

I'll have an update later on this evening. 15m left on the video upload.

 

Screw it.


I guess its going ok? I don't know. Its not terribly complicated.

Before I do forget, there is this almost brass colored shield that came off by the clutch packs. It fell out onto the bench. Not entirely sure how that fit in there. I'll take a picture when I get back down there.

I truly doubt this thing is going to run again. But, I'll follow the book and go from there. If it doesn't, well this was a stupid mistake; chalk it up with the others ones.

To be continued...

 

i think a 750 motor goes in there without too much grief. keep your eye out they're out there. putz around with the rest of the 650 and get it looking good. when you find a motor, you're good to go
split those 650 cases and see what you have, part out what's good, keep anything common to a 650/750 motor
meanwhile '05 to '08 V twins seem like they're everywhere, you've got time.

 

you want a hand impact driver with a torx bit to get those out, or a drill. they are peened so you have to drill that peen out or beat the hell out of it works too.
quit that blasting anything. just wipe them off with brake cleaner, you're not making a F1 engine
come to think of it, what makes you think you need rings?
think Briggs & Stratton

 

I think there is damage to the #2 rings.

Gary H.