New "Pool" Idea

Given that this seems to be an undying issue:
Should we start an airbox pool for members who insist on switching to pods?
If we do should it be like the shim pools (exchange basis), or should there be a nominal fee when someone wants their airbox back?

 

Unfortunately it seems that there is a large portion of XJ owners who raise a flag here AFTER they hack sawed their air box out of the bike.

We should start an XJ Airbox Awareness Campaign.
Stop them before they go down that path . . . .

 

Should ther be a minimal fee if they want their airbox back?

No, it should be a hefty RANSOM

 

I'll stock up on cheapy eBay pod kits if people want to trade their airbox for them. I know which one isn't being made anymore. Quentin and his KZ440 is a great example, PO's couldn't figure out how to install the filter so most got broken/trashed/left behind. Might save a few airboxes if we offer a trade for pods. They're gonna get hacksawed/forced/melted out other wise.

 

When I read about the airbox pool on another thread, I thought it was a joke.

 

Uh.... I put it there kind of as a joke----

 

as well as data on what they did to attempt the pod setup. would be nice to know what does not work.
then that info could be sent with the pods.
here are your pods and here are things that did not work

 

Add the following:

when you're done messing around with the pods, return them along with your additions to the list of "more things that didnt work"

 

Been looking around here for days trying to figure out what pods are. Now I know. Thanks

 

Gentlemen - everyday an airbox is left abandoned, beaten and brutalized. These chambers of calm are being abused and discarded like TX750's.

 

...and that's exactly why jayrodoh came up with the idea of an airbox pool....

Hey, jayrodoh, you can be known as the Great Anerican Airbox Hoarder!!

Dave Fox
East Coast Parts Hoarder

 

Actually it was k-moe's idea, I just mentioned that I would trade pods for airboxes. Then we'll have a stash for members buying bikes where they're already missing or the ones that figure out pods suck for this application.

 

My bad..... Ok, k-moe came up with the idea, you came up with the place, I came up with the name...

 

Sounds like an episode of Man, Moment, Machine. (Yes, I'm still lurking.)

 

Hey! Good to see ya!!

 

Meh. I keep thinking they were trying to overhype whatever it was they were talking about.

That aside, I just had a Brilliant Idea (tm). Two words: 3D Printer.

Come up with a design for each model. Perhaps make it modular so that the user could assemble it in the bike without having to go through all sorts of gymnastics and/or plastic origami.

Anyone got a makerbot laying around?

 

There's one in the Fab Lab at my local community college. Free to the public. BYOF. (F = filament)

 

can you reproduce tank emblems on it?
how about right side seca 550 side covers?

 

3D printing an airbox that can attach to pods is an interesting idea - having something lower profile than stock airbox that still creates a calm and even distributed air environment for the carb air intakes but can use pods on the other side as filter.... hmm -

 

3d printings the future guys!

Try making some side panels while you're at it.

 

tank emblems should be simple - side covers may not be - most 3D printers are limited in the size of the object they can print - the <$450 printers max out at about 10 x 6 x 6 inches. If you want bigger you're in the $3000+ bracket or even more.

A lot of colleges and local "maker" spaces run classes and provide communal resources though. I keep trying to find time to get more into it at http://www.nova-labs.org/

 

I believe you could reproduce covers and emblems. I've been tempted to start a whole business based on this, potential legal battles aside. If you can make it in Autodesk 123D, then you can print it. Also, 123D is tied into print-and-ship services - meaning you don't necessarily need to own or have access to a printer. The most common filament type is ABS plastic, which is what the original covers are made from.

That said, having a cover to scan/recreate a model from would help, but it would also defeat the purpose of needing to make one.

 

I'd love to print some new Yamaha tank emblems. Mine are getting painted and NOS are not worth the price just to paint over. I still have the ones from you BW, they're not bad but still need repaired.

 

The printers I've seen dont make a nice smooth surface.... It looks like rope or string piled in the shape of what you are trying to make.

 

Hmmm....a airbox pool. We'd have to offer them something of value to get them to not destroy the airboxes. If we could get the members to mail the re-usable airboxes to someone like Chacal their account could be credited for the cost of shipping (If Chacal is cool with it). Then if they wanted one back they could pay a nominal fee (like a e-bay average) for a good used one from him. Hopefully that would slow the progression of the unobtainable airboxes in the future.

Gary H.

 

that is where the offer to trade pods for airbox comes in. but the attitude is I can do it so chop the thing out.
it does appear to be possible to run pods it is just how well you run on pods

 

The main 3D printing technique used today is to lay down layers to build a shape - there are a few different actual technical ways to do this - Stereolithography or Digital Light Processing are the most common but they essentially make things in the same end result construction method.

There's a standard correlation to the cost of the machine vs how thin it can lay down layers and thus how smooth the final product is.

However there are various techniques for finishing such as bead blasting / vapor smoothing or even just plain old sanding that can smooth anything out.

Alternatively a fairly new method of 3D printing which is destined to become the norm because it's just faster, cooler and more adaptive ( think dot-matrix vs laser ) is Continuous Liquid Interface Production technology

http://3dprint.com/51566/carbon3d-clip-3d-printing/

 

Making the emblems sounds great. Now.....who's got a vacuum-plating machine for making the emblems all shiny?

 

The legal battles might end up costing you more than latest/greatest 3D printing technology machines..........

 

Gee, isn't that what k-moe and jayrodoh already suggested? Lol

Maybe it should be reworded to say, " it does appear possible to run on pods; it is how least poorly you run on pods"

 

Notice I haven't started a business around it.

 

that would be better truth in advertising. would not want any one to think it would run "well"

 

Yes and I probably should shut up on this cause I have zero experience with pods but I did some more reading and as I understand it the cheap pods aren't gonna work. I'm thinking to stock up on K&Ns to trade for the boxes would get pricey.

Gary H.

 

...and I don't believe the expensive pods don't work incredibly that much better......

 

From what I understand the issue is because the airbox provides a kind of staging post for air to be delivered evenly to each carb. The design ensures that each carb draws air from the same controlled environment - using pods creates differences in airflow as each pod is drawing directly from the world - as each carb is situated in a different place on the bike they are subject to differences in not just potential airflow but also potential temperature. Do I have this correct?

Now there's no getting away from the fact that the airbox on these bikes is fugly. That's why people want to go to pods along with loosing the weight and reducing the profile etc.

I think someone here or maybe over at www.dotheton.com made their own airbox that had a single K&N car filter attached recently and it was bad ass. I'm wondering if you could probably mold/print/fab one that is a lot slimmer profile and more aesthetic with holes on the both sides - one side for pods and one for the boots to the carbs. obviously you don't want this to be just a direct empty box so we'd have to experiment with different angled blades insides to mix the air.

 

The airbox is there to manage and balance the intake pulses to help increase airflow on each intake stroke (see Buell and other related intake air management engineers). A good airbox design improves fuel delivery. A bad airbox design hampers fuel delivery. Pods are not airboxes.

 

Personally, I don't think the inbox is ugly......it'sonly visible portion is about two inches thick, and that's covered with a chrome trim 9excxept the 750 which has a black trim.

For myself, I see no reason, whatsoever, to remove the airbox.

 

And because there is no known pods configuration that would equal the airbox...

Gary H.

 

it is removed because someone told them not to remove it, and/or some pod owner wanted to share his misery by telling them XJ's work fine with out the airbox. misery loves company.
sad part is you could probably put the pods on with out removing the air box and save sometime when you dump the pods.
Hmm.... you could probably put a pod over the airbox boots just to get that pod look with out the head ache
love this title
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/31wmbv/i_have_made_a_mistake_pod_filters/

 

I think nobody would object to a new thinner airbox design (with the stock airbox as a base) that would make the carbs easier to pull out and put back in, AND make the bike run great at the same time.

I consider buying an airbox for my own experiments.

 

Mines ugly, there's 43,183 emails in there. 212 left to follow up on. Ugly.

 

The beauty of the air box are the small velocity stacks built inside. Try pouring water into a small bottle without a funnel , messy and sloppy result. If that doesn't make sense then I'm sorry for you!

 

DOH! I didn't catch that auto-correct typo.....lol

Trying again..... I don't think the AIRBOX is ugly----.

Haha!!! LMHO

 

My XJ won't be the first lady I've ridden that had an ugly box!

(sorry I just couldn't help it).

 

Or ugly lady with a box HHHAAAYYYOOOOOO

 

I guess I don't understand what the big legal deal would be for a guy with a 3D printer to make replacement emblems and side covers for these old bikes. If the manufacturer opted not to make them available anymore then that means they didn't want to spend the time, money, and effort to produce something that they would not get a return on. So I would not think anyone at Yamaha Corp would give a crap about someone making a few trim parts for a 30 year plus old product of theirs.
Example: Year One reproduces parts for Many GM cars from the 60's and 70's. Phoenix Graphics makes decals for all the same cars. Dorman makes an a$$ load of parts for almost any car or truck. Even the GM dealer parts department referred us to "aftermarket" for a door handle kit for a 2010 Chevy pickup truck because you have to buy the whole door panel from GM for $300 if the inside door handle breaks vs $70 kit from Dorman that NAPA or O'Reilly stocks.
So my take on making parts for this stuff is, do not label it as OEM but aftermarket reproduction and call it good. 3D print away my friends the side covers for your 550's for the dozen or two that would be needed no one cares anyway but the dude making them and the person who does not have one.
Speaking of which I need a tank Emblem for my 650 Maxim I was thinking of filling the sides of the tank and get my local decal graphics guy to cut some Gold vinyl decals. I know its not Correct for the purists but is better than nothing at all.

 

The issue is it costs them nothing extra to send the lawyers they have on staff and are already paying to chase you down. To them, the end result is either you license the rights from them which brings in revenue for them or you stop watering down their brand at no additional cost to them or you put up a fight and they make an example of you.

 

Whew.... That's not what i would want to assume--- you'd be unpleasantly surprised.....

In the music world, we have copyright laws to follow, regardless of whether a composition is still in print, or out of print. We STILL have to get permission to copy a POP ( permanently out of print) composition unless it is a definitively Public Domain.

You could also do some reading on all the instrument builders who get sued by Gibson, and other manufacturers, for copying parts without express permission.

My bet would be that most of the aftermarket companies HAVE permission to market those parts.

 

I'm in the same boat, but already had the tank professionally painted so I'm stuck finding some good emblems.

 

So a question rolling through my head is how would I even find out if I could license making POP (to borrow Dave's terminology) XJ parts?