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Clicking but wont turn over

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by FROSTB1T3, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    Just got the oil changed. nothing has changed, but at least i have the right oil in it now. Though I forgot to try to crank it by hand before filling it, could i still do that without draining it again?
     
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Yes, you can still crank it by hand. The purpose of that is to make sure that there is not some internal fault keeping the engine from spinning freely (this is another potential cause of a slipping starter clutch). Make sure all of the spark plugs are removed so you won't have to fight against the compression strokes. If the engine gets difficult to turn, or you hear a "thunk" stop turning the crank.

    If she spins freely, then it's down to making sure that the starter (have you checked the brushes?) and battery are in top condition so that the starter can spin fast enough to let the starter clutch grab and turn the engine over. Since it had that slippery oil in it it may take several tries for the starter clutch to be able to grab consistently. Many members report that it can take another oil change and several hundered miles of riding before the starter clutch begins to grab normally again.

    If it still slips with no improvement then you'll have to consider rebuilding the starter clutch (and attending to the other things that should be replaced when the cases are split).
     
  3. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    I haven't checked brushes yet.
    I haven't checked the brushes yet.
    To clarify on cranking the engine, you had said below the left engine cover. am i removing the left engine cover and cranking something under it? or am I cranking the big allen key slot the is below the outside of the cover?

    Is there a part in the manual about this? I have a pdf copy, but it's kind of a pain to navigate in my opinion, it lacks an index, or table of contents of any kind
     
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I said under the left engine cover, not below.
    There is a round cover on the left side of the engine with YAMAHA cast into it (see pic below). There is no oil behind it. Under it you will find the ignition plate. On the center of that plate there is a 19mm square boss. That is where you place the wrench to turn the engine over by hand. Be careful that the wrench engages well and that you do not hit the ignition pickup coils.

    [​IMG]

    The big allen head bolt that is below (as in down from) the cover SHOULD NOT BE TOUCHED. It is a plug for the main oil gallery and they tend to break if not removed with care (and they never need to be removed unless the o-ring fails).
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  5. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    took me a moment to find a phillips the right size.
    I got the cover off, but I dont have a socket big enough to wrench it, put some channel locks on it but was having issues getting grip to turn it so I could only turn it bit by bit. I got a full turn but then it seemed to get harder to turn so I stopped like you said.
    How easily should it be turning if it were operating correctly?
     
  6. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    If operating correctly it should turn with little resistance. If you still have the plugs in then it will become more difficult to turn as compression increases. You really need to get the proper sized open end wrench or you risk damaging the igintion pickups and the ignition plate when your channel locks slip. Any internal problem will be evident as the smoothness of the rotating assembly will suddenly no longer be smooth.
     
  7. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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  8. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    I hadn't realized there was a difference. but I believe I was using JIS, it had the flattened tip like I'm seeing in pics, and it fit perfectly.

    I'll have to crank it once my roommate returns my 19mm open end or wait for the mechanic across the street to open tomorrow. Is there a wrong direction to turn it? or will it just not turn one way
     
  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Be sure to turn it counterclockwise or you can bind up the timing chain.
     
  10. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    Borrowed a wrench from the shop across the street. It turned almost twice before suddenly becomming difficult to turn. So I stopped like you said.
     
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    And you had the plugs out? Was it a "soft" resistance or a sudden hard stop? Were there any accompanying noises?
     
  12. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    Had all the plugs out. I'd call it a soft resistance, there was a subtle click noise that started right as it got difficult so I stopped in fear of creating the thunk you mentioned
     
  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Oh dear. Something inside is not in one piece :(
    Now is where things get tedious; figuring out what that thing is.
    Do you have a service manual?

    One more question; was the transmission in neutral?
     
  14. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    Yes it was in neutral, yes I do have a manual. And sad day.. i just want to ride my bike again :(
     
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    My first thought is that it's a chunk of the alternator chain guide (these fail due to age). Drop the oil and remove the shift cover. You will see a large passage that leads to the crankcase and transmission. Shine a flashlight in there and look for any hunks of plastic. If you're lucky that's all the trouble is you can fish the biggest peices out and ride this summer, but you will need to replace the guide before too long or the chain will do some damage to the oil nozzle.

    I'm going to tell myself to slow down, because we don't know that is where the problem lies just yet. There are other possibilities that should be investigated.

    The easy things to check:

    Under the valve cover;
    Broken cam chain guide
    Broken cam chain tensioner caused the cam chain to skip teeth and put the viave timing out badly enough that a valve is contacting the top of a piston.
    Broken cam chain

    Start with those two areas; behind the shifter cover, and under the valve cover.
     
    Alan63 likes this.
  16. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    +1
     
  17. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    So I popped the shift cover off - in the process a good chunk of the seal stayed on the bike so I guess I'll be needing a new one. (if you can point me to a reputable distributor)

    I didn't see any chain guide through any of the holes, where should i be looking. here's where I'm at

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I also got my scholarship money today, I bought my bike initially to commute to school and save on gas with my ford explorer, so I can justify putting a bit into it now to keep it running long term. I bought myself a husky 185 piece mechanic set, a set of metric impact sockets, and got an open box husky 4-200 in/lb 1/4" torque wrench for $50 which I think should cover most of my xj tools. anything else you can recommend picking up for this job?
     
  18. boomerangg22

    boomerangg22 Member

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    JIS screwdrivers.
     
  19. FROSTB1T3

    FROSTB1T3 Member

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    yes right of course, he already mentioned those above. I had a hard time finding anything but phillips or flat at home depot. do I need to order a JIS set online? any reputable set you could recommend?
     
  20. Alan63

    Alan63 Active Member

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    Look in that hole under the shifter fork with a flashlight.
    If pieces of plastic are in there fish them out with a piece of stiff wire or needle nose pliers , pick whatever
     

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