HELP, xj550 Shuts Off If Put In Gear

I recently bought an xj550 Seca for $200 that had been sitting since 1993. After a good carb cleaning and fresh fluids it was running pretty good and I've been riding it for a few weeks now, fixing little things here and there, then today it broke down suddenly while I was riding it. Now it shuts off when I put it in gear and the shifter feels stiff and stays up when its pushed up, and stays down when i push it down, instead of springing back to the middle like usual. It seems to me like an issue with the clutch, but what part of the clutch idk... Any thoughts on what it is and what it'll take to fix?

 

You seem to have two things going on.

1. A broken or misplaced shift return spring (maybe the shift pawl spring too). Both are located under the cover that the shift shaft goes through. Drain the oil before removing.

2. A sticky sidestand switch. The remedy is to peel the rubber gator back from the switch, spray contact cleaner into the the switch housing while moving the plunger to clean the crud out, then follow up with silicone lube. Replace the rubber gator afterwards.

3. Check the valve clearances and see to it that you rebuild the brake system. Both are rarely done by owners, and leaving either one undone will eventually lead to having a very bad day.

 

Thanks for the advice. A lot of what I found on the issue also said the sidestand switch was the culprit, but with the shifter suddenly acting weird I wasn't sure whether to start looking at the mechanical or electrical suspects...

I was actually about to start rebuilding the master cylinder and just finished rebuilding the front brake caliper before the incident. The bike has just under 16k miles on it so valve clearance is in the very near future. I also need to get the carbs synced as it runs rich and gets a bit squirrely sometimes, also it shuts off with the choke closed, but I'll address those issues before too long, probably with some advice from this lovely forum

Anyway, do you think I'd be able to ride it back home if I fixed or jumped the sidestand switch? Or will I have to fix the spring in the clutch as well? I left it right beside a shady junkyard in the middle of nowhere so I'm afraid it'll disappear if I leave it there too long. If I have to, I'll rebuild the clutch along the roadside...

 

Ok, I went to check out the bike today and I noticed the chain had popped. It was too dark to see last night. When I took off the countershaft cover the chain was all tangled up inside, stopping the shifter from moving properly and binding up the clutch and shutting off the engine... I took the chain master link apart and pulled the chain out then put it back on and rode home TY for the advise k-moe.

 

That's not rich, that's lean, maybe dangerously so. Check the color of your plugs before you start the engine again. A carb synch will not address a problem with the fuel mixture.

 

It definatly seems a bit dangerous sometimes, I think that's actually why the chain popped in the 1st place, cause of it over revving randomly. do u think that the mixture screws will fix it? I readjusted the carbs a little but I'm waiting for some cone filters to arrive that i ordered, I already pulled the carbs about 5 times now and I didn't wanna mess with it too much more til i got the new filters installed. This is actually my 1st bike other than 2 1970's suzuki TS' that never worked out. and they were a lot different so I'm just now starting to learn about the xj as I work on it.

 

Umm.... Hate to tell you but the cone filters are going to make things worse. Stick with the factory airbox.

You've cleaned the carbs, but have you taken them to church?

IN THE CHURCH OF CLEAN

Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
I suggest that the bike stay parked until you fix this problem.

 

I tightened all the idle screws but it still acts exactly the same... I know I need to adjust the float heights yet but should I adjust the needles to be a little looser too...? I'm kinda new to carbs. I cleaned them and rebuilt them but idk jack about adjusting them... and no, I haven't checked for vacuum leaks yet, i know the boots on each side of the carbs probably do need tightened.. those clamps are so annoying... I'll visit the church in the mean time

 

The main reason I'm gettin the new filters is because of how many times I've had to remove the carbs. It's a pain in the butt to get them out with the airbox in the way and I've already done it half a dozen times. I figured the filters would make it much easier to get the carbs out and help me to get the whole issue taken care of without all the hassle involved because of the airbox.

 

Read the link in my signature titled Pods. You are going to be causing a problem, not solving one.

The idle mixture screws work thusly: Turning in leans the idle mixture. Turning out richens the idle mixture. Baseline setting is 2.5 turns out from a soft seat.
I dearly hope that when you tighetned the idle screws that you didn't inadverdently damage the needes or their seats. A soft seat (the point that the screw bottoms out) is all that they should ever be subjected to.
Were the o-rings on the idle needles replaced? You may have a vacuum leak there if they are the originals.

 

That's good to know I thought it worked the other way around, loosen leans and tightening enriches. I finger tightened them with a flat head drill bit so I don't think i could've damaged them, but make sure they look ok then. Now that I know how they really work I'll loosen them but I think the carbs will need rebuilt to fix the issue. I haven't checked the o-rings on them yet either, they're still the original as far as i know.

 

also I'll check out your Pods link

 

If you don't take the time to properly recommission this bike and continue riding it's going to get added to...

Gary H.

 

lol point taken. So far it's been fix this test drive, fix that test drive. It rides surprisingly well considering. At this point i think it really just needs some carb adjustments, the master cylinder rebuilt, and a few small things that I've already ordered, I'm just waiting for them to show up. I dont have the plyers needed to remove the circlip so that'll have to wait a bit longer.

On another note, my brother stripped the spark plug's threads in the 3rd cylinder so I've gotta drill/tap it for an insert, which I just got today. I'm a little hesitant about drilling out the head tho... anyone familiar with helicoils?

Btw, this is completely off subject but I still have those old Suzukis. I bought the '72 TS250 for $10 at an auction about 12 years ago when I was a kid. Noone else even bid on it because it needs a full exhaust, all motor mounts, all cables, a carb, a wiring harness/lights and signals and so on. I had the engine running when I got it but then my house burnt down while I was working on it and it has sat there ever since. Now the engine is seized and it's a future project. The other is a '76 TS400 I got from a friend for $40 around the same time as the 250. I never really touched it given everything else that was goin on around that time. idk whats even wrong with it, other than being owned by an idiot who intentionally destroyed everything nice about it. But those are issues probably best left for a Suzuki forum... til then I'll focus on the XJ

 

Grease. Cover the bit and tap in grease so the chips don't end up stuck in the combustion chamber.
If you're rusty at drilling a straight hole, practice in some scrap wood first.
Helicoils are wonderful things. Most airplane engines have them installed when new.

 

That's interesting... who whould've thought the aviation industry would trust a spring to keep their planes in the sky... I read somewhere about raising that piston as well and blowing out the cylinder with air after, do u think that'll be necessary or will the grease suffice?

 

Grease should be good.
The Helicoil was initially developed for aircraft use. It is an engineered little spring, but that's not what keeps the planes in the air

 

Ok I'll give it a shot. I plan on doing it in a little bit so I'll let u know how it goes. Also, I ordered new turn signals but they are 10w instead of 27w? what's the best approch to getting them to work without changing the current relays? should I go with load resistors or something else, and if i do go with the resistors what size do I need?

 

If you get tangled up, or fed up with the carbs.... I do offer total rebuild service... And I'm just north of you in NY

 

Buy 27 watt bulbs. Easy.

 

I may take u up on that offer before too long hogfiddles. I'm not quite there yet but I'll definitely keep it in mind. is there any specs out there on the factory settings for these mikuni carbs? I'd like to "reset" them to factory settings if possible, then go from there with synchronizing, etc.

@k-moe - ty for the help, i'll have to look into finding the correct 27w bulbs. I'm gonna go drill/tap that helicoil now so I'll let u know how it goes.

 

So that was a complete F***ing disaster... the hole drilled quick, the tap seemed to thread it ok, but then that shitty helicoil... it's the kind with that stupid tang on it and they give u a rod to bash it with a hammer to break it off, like that's a good idea... I don't have plyers long/thin enough to reach in there and grab the tang to snap it off, so I cut a notch in the rod and packed it with grease in the hopes that it would hold onto the tang when it broke. Instead when I hit it to break off the tang the helicoil, aka spring, stretched and deformed... so I tried winding it backwards to pull it out (i know...) thats when the tang finally broke and fell right down in the engine... now I gotta figure out how to retrieve it without taking the engine apart... any ideas?

 

I shoulda went with my gut and bought an acme , key-sert, time-sert, or any other number of thread repair inserts to use with the helicoil kit, but i wasn't sure if it would've worked or not. I'm gonna try a magnet on the end of an antenna to get the tang out of the head but I'm not optimistic at this point...

 

Magnet on a stick.
What you should have done is get the helicoil meant for spark plugs, which has no tang and is what I assumed you got (note to self, remember that you always say never assume).

 

when I bought the kit on ebay it said it was for spark plugs... Chinese liars... I tried fishing for it with a little bit of grease on the end a cloths hanger for about 2 hours. Then I tried sucking it out with a shop vac with/without a small hose to reach down inside the hole, Then I tried blowing it out with compression. I got a ton of shavings out but the tang was never found... I suppose it could've came out at some point and I didn't notice but i seriously doubt it... It feels like there's a space around the pistons that fell into. I'm not really sure what to do at this point.. I really don't want to remove the head...

 

are you sure you got the right inserts ?
a fine thread 14mm metric thread is 1.5 pitch but a 14mm spark plug is 1.25 pitch

 

The 550's have M12 x 1.25 plugs. I got the M12 x 1.25, same as the spark plug. But I probably should've just tapped it to fit a 14mm plug like the 650's and up have.

 

The bit/tap I got are 12.5mm. The outer diameter of the helicoil is 12.5mm and the inner diameter is 12mm. Given my luck so far I think I'll buy a different insert to thread into the head. Does anyone know if any of the good inserts are the same way? (acme, time-sert, key-sert, etc.) If I can get a good insert with a 12mm inner and 12.5mm outer then I can just thread it right in and avoid the insanity of the helicoils I currently have.

 

I removed the head and used this...

It has two ridge rings at the top that seat the coil in the hole. It's been a couple years; haven't had any problems.

Gary H.

 

I've heard of those. I went with helicoil cause i don't have a few hundred dollars to put into a good insert kit. But if i have to pull the head i'm gonna put good inserts in every spark plug hole so they can never be stripped again. If i do pull the head am i gonna need a new head gasket?

 

Oh btw rocs, what size is the drill bit for that rethread kit u have? 14.5mm?

 

That's the kit I was talking about. I don't think there is a need to put inserts in every hole; just keep your brother away from the plugs

Timesert sells an insert that is similar to the Helicoil Thread Saver and I think it costs a bit less and works just as well.

Did the Helicoil you use not hold? If it's installed there is no reason to pull it out and put something else in.

If you pull the head you will likely need a new head gasket, but if you get lucky and the gasket seperates clean you can use a gasket dressing on it and reuse the gasket.
Permatex has a copper spray gasket that is ideal for the job.

 

A very good suggestion, as far as I'm concerned my brother's never touching any machine of mine again... The helicoil kit I used gives u a little metal rod to bash with a hammer to break the tang off, but that's not a solution when u don't want it in your engine. So I cut a little notch in it to hold the tang when it broke off but when I bashed it the tang didn't break... instead it stretched the spring way down into the cylinder head and the tang remained... then it finally broke off when I was trying to remove the coil to try again. I did eventually get the coil out but the tang was never seen again...

 

I didn't use a drill bit but instructions say 5/8"...


Gary H.

 

oh... interesting... The insert must be thicker than .5mm. I'm hoping to find an insert that'll work with my bit/tap so I don't have to buy that stuff again. I asked a few ebay sellers about the size of the outer diameter of their inserts but so far I haven't gotten any answers. If I have to buy a bit/tap specifically for an insert I will, I'm just trying to avoid buying a whole new thread repair kit since they can get crazy expensive...

 

Thanks for all of your input. I never intended for this thread to get so far off the original topic. I'll start a new thread more in line with my current concerns just as soon as I figure out how to close this one...

 

Keep everything in one thread. It helps us all see what has and has not been done to the machine. That helps with diagnosis, so we can better help you.

As for inserts: go the the manufacturer's website to find what you need, then search for a vendor that has it. Part numbers help when seraching.

 

+1. The "find in page" feature helps with not having to skim through multiple pages to catch up on what's going on.

Gary H.

 

Oh, wonderful... Should I at least change the title of the thread? Assuming I can... I apologize for my ignorance as i am new to this forum.

 

No need to change the title. As long as the thread is active it will come up in the New Posts tab.

 

oh ok. ty for continuously sharing your wisdom.

Is it possible that the lost helicoil tang ended up down around the piston rings? and what kind of damage could i be looking at if i don't retrieve it?

 

Yes. Much damage could result, or none at all. If it were mine I would not want to gamble. Do you know anyone with a borescope, or have an auto parts store that has one to rent? You can use that to look inside the cylinder and see whether the tang is still in there or not.

 

That is a very good suggestion. I will look into that. I really don't want to leave it in there but I'm also not really comfortable taking the head off right now... Using a borescope is probably the best thing I could do at this point. 2 of my cousins own auto shops so I'll ask them if they have one I can use. If that doesn't work out I guess I'll start calling the local auto stores.

 

Still haven't found a borescope but I haven't given up the search yet either. In the meantime I purchased both side covers off eBay (the original ones were missing) and they arrived today along with my new turn signals. I got super lucky finding both of them at once, let alone the one for the right side, they were pretty cheap too (about $40) only there was a bit of a catch... Both of the covers were spray painted black, very poorly i might add, they even spayed over the Seca 550 badges. Also both covers have a small vertical crack in the center near the top, and at some point the right side one had been repaired on the inside with what looks like a backpack strap and some epoxy. Looking at them u can tell they were originally white from the spots where the paint chipped off and the outline of the original decals.


They look way worse in person...

Whats the best way to restore/repair these? I would just gently remove the paint but my Seca is red and the cracks should probably be repaired b4 repainting. My original idea was to simply wrap them with a stylish reversible carbon fiber after I stripped the paint off. I imagine I wouldn't need to repair the cracks if I went that way with it, since the carbon fiber would essentially be a repair in itself but idk. I'd love to hear some suggestions.

 

There are some very good citrus-based paint strppers on the market that will not damage plastic. Or you can use brake fluid.

The cracks can be repaired with a soldering iron and some strips of ABS plastic for filler. Treat it like you were welding steel and it'll turn out better than new in terms of strength.

 

TY again, i will do that. should i find scrap bits of ABS to use or can i buy it for plastic welding?

Also I have one major issue I need to address b4 I can ride legally... It needs a title... I live in Pennsylvania and the bike was originally sold in PA, according to the dealership decal on the chain guard. I have no idea who the previous title holder was as the person I bought from didn't get it from whoever he got the bike from. I know the difficulty of getting a new title can vary from state to state but any ideas on where i should start and what kind of title i should file for?

 

Get your sheriff's office to run teh VIN to make sure it's not stolen. You can go two ways for a title. Most states have a process for your situation, sometimes requiring you to post a bond in case the titled owner is found. You can leagally regester the bike in your name in Vermont so long as you have a bill of sale, and then use that registration to obtain a title in your state. BaldWonder did just that and wrote about the process. http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/this-confirms-it-ive-lost-my-mind.63238/page-2

 

hey, that's mine, give it back.
you can get short lengths of abs pipe at home depot. cut it with a hand saw, save the sawdust and mix it with abs glue till you get a thin paste. (lots of sawdust little glue). stronger than new but it takes a while to harden

 

Just what I needed. Ty for the post k-moe, it's super helpful. I did get a bill of sale just in case, but it's not notarized so I'll probably go with the Vermont Registration. It seems like the quickest/easiest way considering the unknown history of the bike. Judging by the 1993 inspection sticker I don't think the bike is stolen, or at least if it were stolen I doubt anybody would have cared enough to report it but who knows... I'll get the forms ready over the weekend, just not sure how I'll get a cop in the same space as the bike to sign the Vin Verification. I live outside the regional police's jurisdiction so I'll have to find a way to take it to them.

 

awwww....

Nice try it's mine now fool!! mwa-ha-ha-ha... I may even steel your abs repair idea so now your gonna have to deal with that too. Yep... Now your out a bike and an idea Next time i'll take your wedding ring... or... something...