Carb Trouble

Did you do this YET???? There is no use talking any farther til this is done.

Next......haw do you know that airbox is bad?

pods?!?!? You're going to negate everything you do.

Shim clearances---- checked them yet?

Compression- verified it yet?

 

If the airbox has cracks or holes they can be fixed.

Quit running the engine until you have the carbs in correct operating condition.

 

I synced them but was under the impression that I need to have the bike idle before I can continue with fine tuning so I've done as much as I can for the church of clean... I think.

There is a big hole in it and it runs now.

What would it negate? I haven't done much tuning.

I'm going check the valve shim clearances and tune the engine asap and good tutorials/ instructions/ tips?

Compression is good on all four cylinders and all four carbs are pumping air.

 

How will I know if the carbs are in the correct condition unless I start the bike?

 

Since you said that you haven't gotten the o-rings (sub for the throttle shaft seals) I have to ask; why on earth would you put carbs back on without having replaced the throttle shaft seals? Especially since that was one of the main problems you had to begin with.

Flooding and flames are not proper, so don't run the bike again until you have the throttle shaft seals replaced, the airbox fixed, and have wet-set the fuel levels making sure that the float needles really are stopping fuel flow.

Coffee filters are no better than running pods, lean, lean, lean.

 

So, the answer is-No you didn't do it yet.

Go to church!!

 

I don't think the shaft seals are the problem. I think that the bike was running away because of the lack of intake restriction and after I solved that the bike idles. Also, I talked to some technicians at my near by Yamaha parts and service center and they claimed that the shaft seals are more for dust and that's why they don't sell replacements. The float valves are fine no gas is leaking its just pumping too much in and I've already checked them.

 

… And I have a really big bridge out in the desert to sell ya--

Funny how you will listen to all the BS they're telling you, but you'll IGNORE all the stuff that we are telling you right here.

Tell you what-- why don't you just get rid of the bike.... Bring it here, drop it off and I'll take it off your hands for free. By the time you get home, I'll have the bike running like a champ.

How? By CLEANING THE CARBS.... And putting in new throttle shaft seals, fuel supply o- rings, etc..... All the stuff that WE KNOW MUST BE DONE.

 

^ THAT.

The "technicians" at your local shop are full of [redacted]. Those seals are not just for dust, they keep excess air from entering the system, leaning the mixture.

If the float valves were fine then you would not be "pumping too much [fuel] in." There is no fuel pump. Float bowl metering is controlled exclusively by the float height and the float needle valves.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think they were telling me anything to help me fix my bike just to sell me on having them fix it. If anything I dislike them after they said everybody on this forum are idiots and I couldn't sync my carbs myself. But if the shaft seals were the problem then how come it runs without replacements? Wouldn't it continue to run away?
I'm not ignoring your post I'm just trying to get a better understanding of my bike. I started this project with the intent to learn as much about bikes as possible.
Couldn't the cylinder flood when the float bowl pumps all its excess gas inside? It only spits flames on occasion when I START the bike. It's not consistently flooding.

 

I've been following the thread, but keeping my mouth shut as others are much smarter than me. However, I will give you my thoughts. Their is no pump for the fuel. It is gravity fed when the engine is on, or when set to prime. If you ever have flames, something is seriously wrong. If the seals were faulty before, they should be replaced. You will only have to go back to them in the near future, causing yourself additional headaches.

If you follow the advice given by those who have been there - done that, you will be much further ahead. Many have rebuilt more than one of these bikes and more than just the XJ series. They want you to succeed. My bike is running quite well from following the same advice myself.

 

AAGAIN-there is no pump. Period. These are vacuum drawn carbs.

PLEASE.... For the love of Pete, stop the double-speak, go read.

The Information Overload Hour, and Into the Church of Clean.

You must have clearances adjusted and the carbs THOROUGHLY CLEANED, and BENCH synced. THAT will get you to a point that the bike can start up and run enough to warm up properly so you can do your RUNNING sync.. See the names????

BENCH sync- done on workBENCH
RUNNING sync- done on running bike

Your bikes tank and petcock have NOTHING to do with this-- the tank is off of the bike so you can access the sync screws during your running sync.

Now, PLEEEEAAAASSSEE go read.

BTW, EVERYTHING that has been explained time and time again, everything that you have said "I'm trying to understand", etc.....is in Overload Hour and Church of Clean.

READ THEM, FOLLOW THEM

 

Flames out the exhaust are often caused by exhaust valves that are open too long/at the wrong time. Just my $.02. Not taking anything away from the fact that the carbs absolutely need to be properly cleaned, sync'ed, etc.

 

I'm getting the impression that you're misunderstanding me. The carbs are very clean and I bench synced them. I havent been able to get started on finishing the church of clean and have the shaft seals on the way. I have gone through the church of clean except for the valve shim clearance and engine tuning. I think the flames are from the starter cranking too long before ignition and filling the cylinder with gas because I have already checked the float valves. All four cylinders were running without any flames when I didn't have the intake filters on.

 

That would not happen if you have done everything necessary to the carbs and valve clearances.
Have you checked the fuel levels with fuel in the float bowls?

 

YOU are misunderstanding US

 

I'll probably get around to doing the clearances tonight. No. How do I do that? Just take the float bowls off and look?

What am I misunderstanding? I'm going to do everything recommended in this forum. But I'd like to discuss it to help me better understand my bike

 

"How do I do that?"

Read and study:

http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/airhead-valve-adjustment-with-pics.14827/

 

The method for setting fuel levels in the article below is described in the Church of Clean thread that was linked previously.

http://www.xj4ever.com/setting fuel levels.pdf

The link that Dave just provided on how to check and adjust valve clearances is also in the Church of Clean.

Please get in the habit of thoroughly reading every link provided.

 

Imagine that......

 

I finally got a day off tomorrow so I'll try to read it over again tonight.

In the meantime what would the difference in work be behind installing pods vs air box? Important to note that I'll be putting on after market exhausts. Probably straight pipes just to save money.

 

Pods will cause you a lot more work and you may never be happy with the results. Check around the forum for threads on pods. Some have tried, but very few have been successful. It is also a lot better to start with a stock bike that is in perfect running condition and then look to move to pods, although you will still have a lot of work in store for yourself.

 

Pods. Link in my signature. Page five.

Straight pipes are not a money saver.

 

when it's your first bike to gain "how a bike handles experience". A new rider on a bike that handles well can be sketchy until he/she learns how to ride it. A new rider on a bike that'll do all kinds of things because it's not road worthy is on a death trap. Everything needed to make your bike safe and road worthy is here. You can't achieve this by trying to speed up the process. The posting members are some of the most knowledgeable on this site.

Gary H.

 

Hmmm--- differences in work ....

Pods- sync, colortune, run and have issues, rinse, repeat. Again and again and again. UNTIL---- pull the carbs and re-jet! NOW, sync, colortune, run and have issues, rinse, repeat. Again and again and again. UNTIL----you pull the carbs off, put original jet set back in, get rid of the pods and put on the correct

Air box - sync, colortune, go ride.

 

i may be wrong but i think this guy is stringing us along.
without pictures it never happened
"collage student" this says a lot about the state of education in this country

 

Being an educator, I'll humbly disagree.

Also....motorcycle forum.

 

Pretty unanimous that I should work on getting my air box back together/ get another.

I work with welding a lot at work and have plenty of metal resources and tools at school for free. I was planning on cutting and welding my rusted out stock pipes. Would that not be cheaper? Or did you mean, similar to the pods, just more headache later down the line?

Nope. Just trying to get the full picture. I'm a slow learner but I make up for that with patience.
Wasn't aware pictures would help...
"Collage". I work 60+ hours a week in the Texas sun to pay for college so I have to check thread on my phone or before bed. Both make it hard to type. No need to be critical.

 

I meant that (around here anyway) straight pipes lead to nusance complaints and traffic tickets.

The stock pipes are almost as free-flowing as straight pipes are, but you may need to rejet (less of a problem than pods though).

 

I started to check my valve clearance and the top casing of the engine is stuck (probably from the gasket melting. I had a similar problem on the manifolds and float bowls). Just to be sure there, are only the 8 allen head bolts holding it on? What should I do to remove this safely?

 

The link that Hogfiddles shared provides great information, including how to loosen the valve cover. You van use a broom or hammer handle to accomplish this task. Works great. I think it is detailed on the how to. Correct valve clearances make a big difference, at least it did on my bike.

 

There are 12 bolts. The 8 you see, and the four in the center under the tank (clearly pictured several times in the thread that you didn't read). Remove the other four bolts and it'll pop off. You may need to tap it with a rubber mallet to brak the gasket free.

 

Meant 12. I was going off memory. I just need to pry it. I was too scared to damage it last night so I left it alone.

 

Rubber mallet, tap, tap, tap...then grab and pull if needed. If you do end up prying on it use something wooden.
Walking away when unsure is always a good move.

 

Well, it also depends on the year.... YICS valve cover is different than non-YICS valve cover

 

YCIS. Thankfully kmoe's link is also YCIS.

 

All the shim are within range so I didn't pluck any of the valves. Checked them once, twice and a third time for giggles. Going to tune the engine now. I'm struggling to understand how the clearances become out of range. How would that occur?

 

The valve slowly recede into the head with all the miles of pounding

 

Can't find anything on "b) synching the engine" from the C.O.C. Anything would be appreciated. In the meantime I'm putting my the original airbox back together like a broken vase.

 

That's because you sync the carbs, you don't sync the engine.

 

Alright, that would explain my confusion. Onto the colortune any advice while I study that?

 

Your goal is a nice "Bunsen burner" blue. Toward yellow is too rich, toward white is too lean.

 

C.O.C. is finished except the colorplug tune. How much does it usually cost to have a shop do it for me? Is the kit an investment I should look into?
On another note after how many miles should I inspect the valve clearances?
I glued my airbox together for a temporary solution until my next check comes in. Any better alternatives to this bulky airbox? I was talking to a mechanic that frequents my workplace the other day and we were discussing a custom airbox with the same snorkel, and airflow dimensions for an equal intake resistance. Am I dreaming or is this plausible?

 

1. A shop will charge more than the service is worth when that's all they are going to do.

2. Yes it's worth the investment. The colortune saves time. Idle mixture adjustment can be don by reading the sparkplug color, but that takes about 5 times as long (although it's free).

3. Valve clearance checks are done every 5,000 miles.

4. Custom airboxes have been made, and so far all have been reported to work reasonably well.

4a. If you think the XJ airbox is bulky you haven't looked at a modern sportbike lately.
Below is the FJ-09. The airbox is the huge plastic thing on top of the frame (it's part of what makes that engine such a wonderfully powerful beast).

 

What he ^ said. Good air, good fuel, good spark...varoom, varoom!

Gary H.

 

They will probably charge you at least one hours labor … For a 10 to 15 minute job

 

Probably get started on a custom intake system. I'll do some research tonight when I get home and go over the Holy COC to make sure I got everything

 

What is this part called? I'm trying to locate the starter plunger valve but can't seem to find it.

 

That is called the Main Nozzle, or something like that, the starter plunger valve is in the top right part of the carb in the attached picture. It has the black rubber dust seal over it with a brass nub sticking out.

 

The part itself is pictures below inside its spring. To the right of the main nozzle you have pictured.