possible stupid oil question

This may be a stupid oil question, so sorry guys
But it has been a few years since my last cycle, and due to the age of mine now (82 maxim 750) have been paying close attention to things.
I changed my oil at a friends house, and drove home (about 30 minutes) when got home rechecked oil and oil level and all was good, but noticed that (thru the check window) the new oil was already VERY black, is it normal to get so black so fast? or should I do a few oil changes or flush to the bike? I do not think the PO changed oil very often.

 

The oil often looks worse than it really is in the window due to built up grime on the glass.

However if it is noticable from when you changed it and it has been awhile since the last change then by all means dump it.

Give it another good 15 minute ride and drop it while it's good and hot.
Also do the filter as it can hold quite a bit of dirty oil in the housing.

If it comes out dirty then do it again after another 200 miles or so.

Oil is a cheap commodity compared to the damage done by old oil.

 

I would agree that preventitive maintenance was neglected on this bike. Issue should be resolved after next oil change (300 to 500 miles to flush out the crud and change oil again, including filter). Treat her gently for those miles and you should be ok. Good luck!

 

Yup - sounds like there's still some of the old dirty stuff in the engine -- good idea to run her for a couple of hundred miles to let the new oil get the crud in suspension, then drain it while it's still warm.

Oh - and don't forget to drain the middle-gear drain too -- if you miss that, all the stuff sitting at the back of the transmission doesn't get changed.

 

Oh yes, the stupid middle drive drain plug. It is hidden rather inconvieniently in the rear portion under the transmission final drive area between two of the case webbings, deep in a hole. There is a picture of it's location somewhere in our forum, need to get that thing stickied. I've missed it all these years with no ill effects but it should be done. I do it now since my ignorance was banished. That rear sump holds about a cup and a half of oil as a bath for the final drive, it should be cleared. Good luck to you Regulator!

 

Do all the XJ's have the middle gear drain? I have checked my owners manual and there is no mention of it. BTW mine is the XJ900F 1989. I did an oil change yesterday and only found this group afterwards. Will have to crawl under the bike and see if I can find one at the weekend.

 

I'm only aware of '80-'83's Ian. I'm not familiar with any other years. Anyone else out there savy on this issue?

 

Ian nice bike. I was wondering if your bike is shaft drive or chain?

 

Thanks guys, for the good advise! will have to look for that middle plug didnt find when changed oil. One more question to due with my oil, The PO had a aftermarket oil cooler on the bike, and it is leaking from the fins (radiator part) all over the chrome headers, stopped by a local yamaha dealer and the tech I talked to said there is really no need to have one on this bike, so i was planning on removing it, any thoughts, suggestions on keeping it or removing it?

 

That depends upon what ambiant temperature ranges you plan on operating in. I'll go out on a limb here, but I need to know what bike your riding (you really ought to post it on your signature). If your running an air cooled bike (such as our beloved XJ's), cooler stable temperatures are a desirable condition. You don't want the oil too cold but heat is an issue with cooling the heads (thus the cooling fins which require air flowing over them to really work efficently). If you are up north, let's say MN, and you ride open freeways most of the time, the oil cooler is probably not needed at all. Now look at sitting in traffic in say San Diego. Minimal air movement, short trips and higher ambient temperatures. An oil cooler would be a darn good idea. If you are looking to do long haul at high speed (resonable speed mind you) you wouldn't need the cooler. I'm thinking in your part of the world and if you don't do a lot of stop and go, dump the cooler, it's leaking anyway. I live in southern California and I picked up the cooler's off of two turbo units for both my Seca and Maxim because of our temps and traffic conditions. If you are of a mind, sell/give the oil cooler to someone who could use it (it might be nice to pressure test it first but that may cost and if your giving it away, tell the interested party and let them worry about it). A new core shouldn't be more than $70. Repair is also an option depending upon where the leak is occuring. Hope this was of some use.

 

Nope - your bike won't have it - you've got a slightly different engine from most of us with the early-to-mid 80's bikes.

On yours you're good to go with the regular oil drain.

Oh - and for the Oil Cooler - shouldn't really be a necessity in Minnesota, even during summer city driving in Minneapolis (as an example).
I'd take it off, see about what a repair would cost, and just drive normally - you probably won't miss it much.

 

The only time I've ever felt like I needed an oil cooler was in the parking lots that people call the interstate in New Hampshire. 8)

 

I've had plenty of times sitting in traffic in Chicago when the bike would start to act strange. And I know Minneapolis traffic, contrary to popular misconceptions, can be every bit as bad as Chicago's.

Personally, I'd take every bit of cooling I could get, but maybe my fairing makes the difference.

 

thanks guys

 

Thanks. Bike is shaft drive.

 

I found the pic for the middle gear oil plug. Here ya go!

 

This is one we should sticky Sno, lots of folks don't know where the heck this little sucker is hidden and this is the best photo I've seen yet. Any thoughts?

 

I changed my oil for the second time last night and drained the middle gear oil too. It was such a pain in the A$$ that I doubt it gets drained every time. I did figure out that my craftsman slim socket wrench could get between the frame and the exaust fairly easy to get it out. But putting it back in with all that oil everywhere was a bitch! The oil gets all over the 4 to 2 collector :evil:

I'll try and post the picture tonight of how the wrench was setup.

 

If anyone was wondering what kind of oil I used, it was Valvoline 20w-50 Motorcycle Oil.

They got me with this line...
Protect Wet Clutch - Optimal frictional characteristics for maximum power transfer, smooth shifting and proper protection of the wet clutch.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products ... product=76

 

Here is how I got it loose...

 

Dropping the collector sounds pretty good right about here CJ. Couple of bolts and your in there without all the mess and access to boot. Additional work yes, but less mess and ease of access might just offset the inconvenience. Good on you for taking good care of your machine, your better too yours than I am to mine (at least right now). Keep at it bro.

 

FYI-

I checked my '83 owners manual and it makes no mention of the Middle plug. But my Clymers does. If the oil is dirty I always warm the bike up a bit before draining it. Blistered fingers are a small price to pay for a nice clean Oil Window.

 

Pictures of from "inside" , the middle drain plug , the small square valley with the hole in it is where the middle drain plug screws in from underneath the crankcase.

The larger half moon maching is where the output shaft bearngs sits and the shaft itself , the other 3 machings are for the shaft that drives that , the small oblong square in the case is where the oil gets flicked though to lubficate the whole lot when the motor is running and a out of course , the amount of oil there that would sit there i guess would be between a half a cup to 1 cup max

 

Does anyone know if the '81 XJ 550R has a middle plug?

 

Chain drives don't have middle gearing ...

Chain drives have two other unseen issues to be dealt with. Primary sproket wear and chain-slack adjusting.

If the adjustments at the rear axle are past the half-way markers ... pull the cover and inspect that front sproket for excessive wear between the teeth.

 

Hey Jeepin, you usin that 20-50 this time of year too?

I been using Syntec 5W-50

Here's what Castrol says:
SAE 5W-50:
Provides the widest range of protection available. SAE 5W-50 delivers exceptional cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start-up and provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; Ford WSS-M2C931-A and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.



I'd be worried about that cold startup thing with bearings taking undue wear......

I do also like Valvoline products, and that clutch/shifting statement does look attractive.

 

Also note that the bolt to drain the oil is aluminum and when is swells is not very easy to get off

 

Just curious, has anyone considered a "replumb" with small nipples and elbows to move the plug to the back of the collector?

Just a thought, I never have messed with this plug yet. and probably never will.

 

For the RECORD.

You don't have to change the Middle Gear Oil or Drain it when you do a Routine Oil Change.

The Plug is there to Drain the cavity in preparation of Splitting the Cases.

The Plug is prone to fracture and will cause you an Enormous amount of needless work if you break it draining less than a mouthful of oil.

I do not recommend removing the Plug for any reason other than Engine Rebuilding ... and, knowing how fragile the Plug is ... I'd leave it and sop-up the oil in there with Kleenex if I have internal work to do.

 

Thanks, Rick!

 

On a related subject Oil type and viscosity? Back in the day (1973 to 1987) my Yamaha dealer then recommended for Indiana summer riding 20w50 castrol oil for air/oil cooled engines. What is the current thinking on oil type and weight for this application? I know that it has a lot to do with personal preference but there is some engineering behind the oil question. Bob

 

On the topic of oil. . .

I just picked up a 82 XJ650 Maxim and I fixed a ton of electrical stuff. I got it to turn over. Before I allowed it to fire I checked all the fluids and the oil seemed low. So I added until I got to the top of the view glass right at the mark. This is with the bike level. Then I got it to fire up and run and all seemed ok. I think I had a carb float issue and fixed that and I drove it around the block and it ran great. I parked if for a few days and yesturday when I came home I fired it up allowed it to run for 3-5 min all while playing with the revs a little. Nothing ridiculous rpm wise but enough to get the juices flowing. I shut it off and noticed a puddle, a large puddle and it was coming out of the air cleaner box. at the bottom. Little tube and a little hole. It seemed to be a mixture of oil and fuel. So I cleaned out the air box and disconnected all the rubber boots between the carb and the air cleaner. I ran the bike and under idle nothing. But under some RPM it started injecting oil in to the air box via breather tube. I immediately shut down the bike and drained the oil. It was extremely thinned out and I assume maybe over filled due the fuel.

My question is the bike doesn't smoke it doesn't knock it ran great. however. Could this just be because it became over filled with the carb float issue. It seemed that the float level was set way to high and it just filled the crank case with fuel over filling and thinning out the oil. Does that sound plausible that the overfill crank case with thinned oil would expel into the air breather/filter area?

I am an automotive tech and although these bike run on the same principles as a car (fuel, air, compression,spark) does this sound correct?

Any thoughts or info would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Mike J

 

sounds like a typical stuck float. and you might want to check your petcock..... this has probably happend to everyone on this site at least once....

 

Yeah I already fixed the stuck float. I don't doubt it has happened to everyone. I fixed that and I actually know that for a fact because its no longer fouling plugs and whatever. I just meant is it normal for it to be expelling liquid into the air breather/air cleaner box or is there something that could be wrong elsewhere? I guess this is assuming its expelling liquid because its over filled. That seems normal or no?

thanks for the reply

 

oh an the petcock works because i have removed and install the tank like 20 times without spilling a drop. But good thinking.

 

It is normal for overfilled oil to come out the breather into the air box

 

Ok thanks for the reply I just wanted to know if that had happened before or if I could possibly have something pressurizing the crankcase.

Thanks

 

Another question i have is about setting float levels correctly to make sure this type of issue is avoided in the future. Whats the best way to set the float levels to keep the bike from being flooded again.

Any suggestions other then the tube method with fuel in it. Or is that the only real way to do it?

 

Tube is only way I know of to be sure. There is a thread on dry setting float height. I used that method then verified with tube. Worked great and made for less remove and adjust cycles. Most of them required no adjustment after dry setting.

 

yeah I have discovered that the reason the floats were allowing to much fuel is not because they were stuck but they were bottoming out on the case of the carb before they were completely seating the needle. So being simple minded about them I bent the little tang like it says in the repair manual to level the float and push the float tight against the needle to appropriately seat the needle. However, this I believe is not allowing the fuel to completely fill the bowl and now its not able to supply enough fuel in higher RPMS. So I gotta start over from square one and set them dry and check them wet like you are describing.

Thanks again for the reply.
Most appreciated

 

One other thing to watch for (that I found out the hard way) is that there are o-rings below the float needle seats in some of the XJ carb models (mine's an '81 with the Mikunis). If those o-rings are bad (dried out or cracked) the carbs could flood even if the float levels are good. YMMV.

 

I recently did a rack of Carbs for a Member who sent them to me with Carb Kits from an aftermarket supplier.
After installing the new Float Valve Bodys and Pins; I set-up to adjust Float Heights.
Before I could set the Float Heights I had to deal with those Brand New Float Valve Seats and Pins. They leaked. Three out of four. Even though they were Brand New.

I wish I had saved the packaging to see where they were made.
I have a sneaking suspicion that even though they were were "Made in Japan" ... the Japan wasn't the Country, but a City in China or Taiwan.

Before I could get the NEW Floats to stop sticking; I had to smooth and refinish the Bore on the Valve Body with a rolled-tight piece of 1200 Finishing Paper and "Dress" the side-guides of the Pins with the 1200; too.

These were the type of Float Valve that does NOT have "Beenie Screens"
So, if you are having trouble with Floats sticking and can''t figure-out why because you just replaced the old Floats with NEW ones ... beware!

Three out of four would lead me to believe that Quality Control ain't exactly Job One with some manufacturers making aftermarket parts for Hitachi and Mikuni Carbs.

 

hey guys both my XJ'S being ex police have been stripped of all fairings i cant find any here are they readily available in your parts of the world if so do they cost much?

 

US Cops rode Harleys until Kawasaki started selling Police Bikes for a dollar !!

 

This being the thread for stupid oil questions...
I just noticed that my '81 750 Seca is leaking oil, and it has been for a time, as I found two more stains in the rear tire:











Should I do this, if I find the right tools, or should I give the job to the moto-mechanic? And WHY it is leaking? Overfilling or just not thight enough?
Oh, please remember that I'm an absolute newbie that doesn't even have but a few tools. (I'm not mechanically inclined).
Saludos desde Reynosa.
macnifico

 

I believe that is the VENT and that would be the result of overfilling OR maybe just long hard running in say...a hot climate?

 

That object at the top of the Final Drive is the "Breather"
Yours seems to have part of it missing.
A bell-shaped "Cap" that goes over that part of the element leaking.

Rear-ends leak from there when:
The Rear-end is over-filled
The wrong viscosity of Hypoid Gear Oil is used.

In Cold Weather.
ALL of them.
The Hypoid's so thick and cold it gets "Slung" at the Breather and pushed-out.

 

Mmmmh, the weather has been very cold in the night, around 34~38ºF, and around 68~75ºF in the day.
I rode the Yamaha a few days ago, but not too much, a few miles in 65ºF weather.
Could it be overfilling with the wrong viscosity in the night's cold weather? :roll:
I'm not using it much, so... What should I do? Take it off, so it just finds its own oil level?
Saludos desde Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico!
macnifico

 

Look at your last pic.
See the large bolt head, half way up the final drive, toward the back?
This is the fill for the final drive.
With the bike level take the bolt out.
The fluid should be at this level, if fluid pours out it was over filled.
There is a cap missing from your vent pipe.

 

OK, I'll do that tomorrow.
Re. the missing cap: It is important? Should I look for this cap to install it?
Saludos desde Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico!
macnifico