Electrical issues

So I've got what may be some basic questions for some of you, I've recently bought my first bike knowing it has an electrical issue (along with some other minor things I can deal with) I have next to no experience with wiring and electrical things. I can analyze and change fuses, light bulbs etc. but that's about it.

So heres the story, I bought an '82 Maxim xj650 with the story that it was running about a month and a half ago, the owner was deployed to afganistan and he left it with his dads friend when he was deployed. The guy who was storing it for the kid rode it a few times and he went to turn it on one of these times to ride it when the lights and everything came on he heard a pop and everything died. from what I gathered this fella rides Harleys and was also working on his house and another bike, so this issue with the XJ wasn't his problem so he didnt care too much about the bike nor did he have time for it and the dude that's deployed asked him to sell it for him. This is when I came in and bought the bike.

My first thought was a blown fuse or relay. I got the bike for pretty cheap and heard it crank over when he used a battery pack thing on the starter, so i'm thinking the mechanical components are ok right now. its simply an electrical issue. I've checked the fuses and they are fine, old but not blown out. so far only the Main fuse is getting power, so I printed off a wiring diagram I was able to find on one of these forums and have ended at the Main Switch, this is where I am now. I'm thinking the main switch may have had a short or something but i'm not sure how to check it other than a jumper lead or something to see if I can bypass the short and get power to the rest of the bike. I'm not totally sure how to check the relays either, from what I have read in these forums I have deduced that they are the original relays so they probably need to be replaced anyways because they are the old metal (brass maybe) case with the numbers and things worn off of most of them except one which reads AH7-01.

I have read things about an ATARI box on these bikes and I don't know the first thing about them or where to find it on my bike. I have a manual on the way in the mail. and that's about where I am now...

I can post pictures if need be or if you guys have any pictures or ideas of what I should be trying or what the pop may have been please let me know what you think.

Thanks a lot, I'm really excited to be a part of this community and learning from you guys!

 

Start here

The Information Overload Hour

read, read, read, then do ALL of the things.

Given your systems, step one should be a thorough physical and electrical inspection of the fuse box and wiring harness (including claning corrosion/ oxidation from all the plugs). The original fuse clips eventually fail in a way that is not easy to see, so either replace the clips, or replace the whole fusebox as done here:
HOW TO: Install an aftermarket fuse box


The original relays only rarely need to be replaced. They were build in the old-school way...eg. to last forever.

Your maxim does not have the ATARI (slang for the systems monitor), so don't go looking for one.

Treat whatever the seller told you as if it were a fable.

Start a conversation with Chacal when you need parts.

 

Welcome, the first thing if fuse block is original ....get a new fuse block with blade type fuses upper rt corner of the page is xj4ever...chacal carries most new replacement parts. Have you replaced battery? Inside head light bucket is a fuse as well a diode pack. also note your head light will not illuminate till engine starts...many folks new to these bikes are not aware and think there is another problem.Get a cheap volt meter unless you have one.Good luck

 

the main fuse feeds the other fuses in the block. main fuse goes to key (ignition switch) then feeds 1 wire (brown) back to fuses and splits into 3 wires to feed remaining fuses


check your inbox

 

I haven't replaced the battery, I've had it on a trickle charge while tinkering with it, I am planning on upgrading the fuse box with the blade fuses because I've seen that suggested regularaly on other threads.

Good to know about that ATARI, I haven't begun to dig looking for it so i'll just forget about that

And as far as what the seller told me, I do take it with a grain of salt like I would with any other vehicle, I just thought what I've been told would maybe be useful to you guys to narrow down what may be going on.

and for what XJ550H said, I have learned that through my wiring diagram I am using, and that's why i'm wondering if the short may be in the ignition switch or on it way to the ignition switch or away from it
(also is the ignition switch also known as the main switch? my wiring diagram has no "ignition" on the key, so from tracing the wiring I think its the same thing right now..)

I'll be checking more closely for corrosion/oxidation throughout the whole system as I go along.

I will be reading over on the links you posted k-moe

Thanks so much for the help you guys!!

 

how to
Clean and lube the ignition switch

http://www.xj4ever.com/downloads.html

 

If you ever buy an XJ with one it will be plainly obvious. In fact you'll see it every time you look at the gauges.

 

so here the update, I have a new ignition switch on the bike which helped me learn the battery was no good and couldn't take the load of the bike.

The ignition switch aka Main switch was where my short was.

So now I have all the lights but the headlight working (I'm about to check it to see if its just a burned bulb but its taking a backseat to figuring out my engine problem now)

So I have sparks from the wires, the spark plugs are brand new, the starter rotates and I'm pretty sure the starter clutch is engaging because I have compression (I felt the exhaust for air being pushed out)

I'm gonna remove and clean the carbs next

What do you guys think?

 

while you have the carbs out check your valve shims make sure you in spec
ohm out the ignition system to make sure it is in spec

 

The headlight won't come on until the engine fires (or almost fires).

 

So I had the bike firing and was trying to get the idle right, when all of a sudden I lost power again and I'm exactly back at square one..

Any idea what could be going on? I must have fried the main switch because my multimeter shows everything is the same as when I bought the bike..

What could be frying my components?

I'm sort of thinking the the main switch being fried is a symptom of the problem and now the main issue itself..

 

Replaced the start button assembly, I had been sticking an Allen wrench or screw driver in the start button hole and shorted it out, put some dielectric grease in my ignition and she fired up

Now that I have the bike running here's my new issue

When it's idle I can hear what sounds like a possible misfiring on the right side that's fairly intermittent and not rhythmic at all, when throttle the bike I start leaking oil but it's dripping off a corner of my airbox and I can't find how it's getting there or anything..that's the main concern now because it's a stream not like a slow drip or anything.

When I let off the throttle the the right exhaust pipe releases a small yellow flame with a pop.

Enlighten me on what where this oil could be coming from and if that flame is a big deal plz

 

Did you read The Information Overload link that was in the first reply of this thread?

It sounds like your floats are not shutting off fuel flow and your crankcase is filled with gas, gas and oil are dripping out.
Open your oil filler cap, smell. If it smells like gas you need to stop running the bike and figure out your float problem.

You probably need to go to Church.
http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/in-the-church-of-clean.14692/

 

^^ hopefully stumplifter is correct and you have a stuck or bad needle valve flooding gas into the crank case sniff your oil did you test your fuel levels in the carbs?

there is a .vent tube from motor to air box.
so your oil level may be to high put bike on center stand and check the oil sight glass.
or you have a set of bad rings so that you are getting blow back into the crank case forcing the oil up the tube
or possibly a hole in your piston
time for a compression test

as for the misfire have you ohmed out the coils and plug caps? could have a failing plug cap
flame would be fuel flooding issue or cylinder not firing properly and not burning the fuel

 

Did a compression test, the first 3 cylinders were in spec and matched, the 4th cylinder was 5 psi higher but still in spec.

My oil sight glass is black as f*** and I cant see through it so that does me no good

The gas/oil mix was coming through that vent tube on the crank case like you^^ said buddy

everything ohmed out, and I have spark off every plug, electrically the bike is fairly sound now, I learned a lot about the electrical system since ive bought the bike and that aspect of my bike should be good to go

I changed the oil twice and let the bike idle without revving it both times and the gas mixing with oil has dissipated with each oil change to the point where now it is almost questionable if I'm smelling gas in the oil or if that's just the smell in my garage

So after all this I still didn't think it sounded right while it idled, so I touched my hand on the exhaust pipes and 1 was hot, 2 was hot but not as hot at 1, 3...well ive got a good burn on my hand from 3 now (I was getting sloppy from whiskey gingers with a visiting buddy who is on a solo bike tour) and 4 was cold.

But the thing is, when I idle it sometimes 4 fires, sometimes I think #2 doesn't fire, but I haven't succefully had all four firing together

I have come to the conclusion I need new boots from my airbox to my carbs, I'm having the same issue some other folks on here have had where they seem to be like 1/8 of an inch short of seating really well on the carbs, when I get the bike on the vibration seems to make the bottom side open usually on #3 and #4 but sometimes on all of them

Ive tried switching and swapping to see if I could get them to fit better but they just don't wanna work and they're already pretty abused from the previous owner

So heres my next move, I have that tool that's necessary for valve adjustments on its way in the mail, i'm gonna check those valves in my head and probably replace/adjust them. I'm gonna buy some new boots or get creative and cut up some radiator hose and clamp is on in place of the boots..

What else should I be looking into?

 

Also when the boots come off I'm gonna bench sync the carbs just to make sure, I mean I did it before but I figure there is no harm in double checking my work just to be sure..

 

have you adjusted the mixture screws? on the cooler cylinders? open them up a dimes width at a time

 

Did you read the Information Overload Hour?

Did you wet set your float heights after being at Church?

Your air box may not be slid all the way forward and be giving an illusion of the boots being too short. My boots were the same (ill fitting/ slipping off) when I first got my XJ. Loosened the air box, pushed it as far forward as I could (there is NOT a lot of play but a little goes a long way) and no problems since. Make sure the little tab on the boot is TDC with the notch on the air box, that will insure that your orientation is correct.

 

I'll check on adjusting the mixture screws

YES I HAVE READ THE INFORMATION OVERLOAD HOUR
I'm not blatantly ignoring links and tips that have been sent to me either through personal messages or on my thread

That being said, no I didn't wet set my floats after that, and the airbox doesn't have the bolt to hold it in place so I can push it forward and move it around easily, the little tabs are at TDC, still makes no real difference, especially on carbs 3 and4 which are the two that really don't wanna sit right, like I said before ive tried everything from swapping them with eachother, to pushing the airbox around and they just don't want to seat and stay. I have even sat them in hot water to make them easier and more malleable to handle in order to make the job easier (before somebody asks, yes I am drying the water off of them before putting them on my bike)

I'm not hearing any "No's" on the radiator hose use in place of the boots though

 

someone has done that in this forum do not know what thread it was in it was a while ago
the air box boots are available but would cost about 20$ each

you need to wet set the floats that could be your issue incorrect float heights will starve/flood your cylinders for gas I would do that before the hose.

maybe someone can tell you what size bolts you need for the air box or you could buy them from chacal or a dealership

 

top bolt

Bolt, With Washer
90119-06029-00
$1.95
http://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/500421bcf8700209bc787390/intake

 

I found all 4 for about $40 but that's part of my motivation for using radiator hose, I can get it cheaper and but it to the length I want. I'm gonna give it a try, if it works for me i'll post pictures of how I did it..

 

Rad hose does not have the internal shape of a velocity stack. The airbox boots do.

Wet set your floats. Correct float hight is critical to allowing the carbs to deliver fuel properly, and there is only a slim margin for error. Too low and she'll run lean, or even starve at high engine speeds. Too high and she'll run rich, possibly bog under acceleration, and maybe even piss fuel into the crankcase.

 

I have stopped the oil leaking into the airbox, I don't know exactly what was going on other than I dumped out about 2 gallons of oil/gas mix, so I think gas just kept getting in there and building up because I had drained the oil before multiple times, and I always double and triple check that I was putting in the correct amount of oil each time I refilled it. but it hasn't pushed oil/gas through the airbox since I got the nearly 8 quarts out of the crankcase..

wet set my floats and was having issues with cylinder 3 not firing, so I re-cleaned and re set everything, as well as polishing the float needles and seats on every carb again, because the only thing I could think of was a sticky float needle like what has been suggested before.

Now i'm at the stage of trying to get it to idle again, it'll fire up with starter fluid, and I even have all the cylinders warming up evenly as the bike revs up. I am using paper towels as airfilters by putting it on the intake mouth of the carb body and giving it a light spray of starter fluid, simply to test if the cylinders are all firing, but the effin' airbox boots wont mount right for the life of me, but I'll worry about that when I can get the thing to fire..

Please please help my goal has been to head to NOLA by feb. to meet some friends since about new years, and i'm getting crunched on time to get this sucker road ready..

 

Are you starting with the airbox boos pushed into the airbox?
Are you warming them up?
Is the airbox loose in the frame?

 

Ive tried starting with the in the airbox first and ive tried starting them on the carbs first, the airbox is loose in the frame but pulls itself up and back away from the carbs, i am warming them up first

 

Start with the boots pushed into the airbox. Use a phillips screwdriver and your hand to work the boots out of the box, and onto the carbs, beginning with the two center carbs. I find that it is helpful to have the clamps as loose as possible without unthreading the screw, and resting on the carb throats instead of on the boots.

 

Ill try it again mostly because i have no choice but the only thing i havent done that you mentions is having the clamps on the carb yhroat instead of the boots

 

It takes practice. My first attempt at installing the airbox boots took 45 minutes, now I can have the whole rack off the bike and back on in about the same amount of time.

 

So have the floats wet set tk 1.4-1.9mm all new float needles withe good rubber tips (which is why i was having gas leak and cylinder wash) which is well within spec. My boots are one, nothing is blocked as far as my jets and whatever. No amount of idle adjust will get the bike to idle,

What do i need to do? What am i overlooking? Compresions is good, spark plugs are clean and gaps as perfect, there is no gas flooding, pil levels are good no gas in my oil..what am i missing? Ive had it idle before already but (even with the floats upside down...) and ive gone through everything about 4 or 5 times and im out of ideas..

 

I do not understand what you are saying about your wet set floats. A wet set should find your fuel level 3mm +/- 1mm from the lip of the float bowl.
http://www.xj4ever.com/setting fuel levels.pdf

 

I guess i misinterpreted the level is supposed to be at, i understood it as between 1mm and 3mm

 

Good news, shes running and I'm on the road, I finally got the boots on, I have all the cylinders firing, I have no electrical issues

Thanks everybody for all the help. I learned a lot and I feel like I have enough knowledge to start contributing back to this online community with what I've learned throughout the whole process

Stumplifter and K-moe and xj550H you guys were all very helpful I really really appreciate it

and I never felt like anybody on this forum was condescending or rude about anything

You guys are awesome I'mm gonna go ride!!

 

You Know Who must not have spoken up...

 

we all learn from each other .

 

Sazaa?

 

Polock is back.

 

Out of ideas to she's running and on the road. What was the fix, was it the wet set fuel level? Glad you got it going and can enjoy the ride.

 

^^Yeah it was the float levels, also bad seals on the 2 of my float needles, which were on the cylinders that weren't firing, and I think gas was washing past the cylinder because of that.

I've been riding my bike around town and even to my families property about an hour from where I live, and to other towns also about an hour away and stuff with no problems even at highway speeds...until yesterday afternoon lol

I was leaving the property in the country and the bike was still warm, I just went out there to lock up our storage container and the front gate, I made it a mile or two down the road, when she bogged out and died, I thought I ran out of gas.

My tank still had plenty of gas and I got the bike started again, it idled fine, so I put it into gear and started going again, after about 300 yards it started bogging down again, so I pulled over, checked to make sure gas lines were connected, nothing was stuck open like the choke or anything, my boots were all still tight and in place. I idled it again for a while to see if it would bog down at idle and it did twice, I found a sweet spot on the idle adjust screw and she stayed running for a few min, so I thought everything was fine. Put it in gear and started heading home, and made it about 300 yards again before she bogged out and died.

I was reading that maybe the vent tube is blocked, also read that maybe a jet could have already become clogged, or that my fuel line or petcock may have a clog, i'm not wanting to take off the carbs again lol but I will if I have to

What would you guys check first?

 

i would ohm out the pick up coils again and when it stops running .
I was having a problem where the bike would die at the same spot on my initial test ride loop a few times I was able to limp home but it ended up being the pick ups failing when they got hot.
could also be the plug caps well worth the money to replace them with chacals nkg replacements

 

have you c hecked out the charging system?
if you are having intermitent charging causing low voltage. brushes may need to be replaced and commutor rings cleaned with a hard art eraser
this can all be ohmed out as well as a running test for voltage drop and proper charging levels

specs and testing methods can be found in this thread
The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide

 

bogging out and dies

ok lets look at the fuel system
there is a vent in the gas cap which can cause this problem read link your vent may be clogged. open gas cap and see it it restars and stops boggging you may have to drive it partialy open for a while.

Your Gas Cap and You

there is also a screen on the petcock which may need to be cleaned.

could be your vacuum line is opening up or collapsing cutting off your vac and fuel flow
set petcock to prime to check this out
replace with 4 mm vacuum line

could also be the petcock failing and needs rebuild or replacment

 

How cold was the ambient temperature?
I've experienced carb icing and it's similar to what you're experiencing.

 

+1 on the gas cap vent. That was the first thing that crossed my mind when you said

 

It was in the high 50s when I started my cruise

i'll check the gas cap vent, also gonna check the side stand relay today, in addition to ohming out the pick up coils., ill let you guys know what I find

 

Quick update:
The bike had absolutely no power anywhere except the battery this morning.

The positive wire going from the starter relay to the main fuse was severed when I came out this morning, it looked like it broke over time because most of the wires were not shiny like a newly cut wire. It wasn't a clean cut, but a more organic looking break right at the ring terminal connecting to the starter relay, I imagine it happened over time an I simply overlooked it, so I spliced it onto a new ring terminal and I got power all through the bike, i'm hoping this is the root of my problems. I'm going to continue to check the system just incase though

 

pick up coils ohmed out perfect,

removed the kickstand safety relay

the gas cap vent breathes,

bike is having trouble starting but I was thinking it may be because the engine is kinda cold and I played with the idle adjust a lot initially so I took it out of the cold garage and sat it in the sun (its in the upper 50s here today) and ive been trying to zero in on the sweet spot for the idle screw with no luck...

It'll fire up for about a second with starter fluid but not stay running, and without starter fluid I don't even hear the cylinders popping..

spark plugs and the gaps are good but the plug on cylinder 1 was covered with carbon, so I cleaned it

am I gonna have to remove the carbs again and go through them?

 

another update:

I was able to get the bike to start up and rode it about 30 ft before it died again by running with it, jumping on and dropping the clutch (any newer riders trying this, put both feet on the bike, otherwise when it stops and doesn't fire its a good way to drop the bike)

So i'm gonna put it on a charge and see what happens tomorrow

 

Grasping here . . . Get yourself a small jar and see if you get a similar amount of fuel out of each carb bowl drain. The not starting thing (assuming you went through all of the magic electrical stuff that XJ550H suggested) almost sounds like there is no fuel . . . .

 

Ill try that, if im feeling froggy ill do it today but more than likely tomorrow