Good information on Pods vs Airbox

Couldnt find the Pod thread, so i thought i would place this here.


Based off the video i might make some alterations to my pod inserts. Seems like the real issue with going to pods is filtration of particulates. Nothing a coffee filter cant fix! cant wait to smell the exhaust!

 

Sorry to rain on your parade ...PODS Suck if you get caught in the rain an engine full of water is no fun. CV carbs do not function at peak performance with the velocity of air from pods and you will have a flat spot some where in the power band not to mention having to experiment with jets . Another item overlooked if you insist on running pods you HAVE to fabricate some type of bracket to support the back of the carbs DO NOT reply on the intake boots alone to support the weight of the carbs eventually the boots will crack . I've worked 30 years on bikes so I have seen this before so yes I'm biased My Honda CB750 could flat run away from my buddies Suzuki 1100 ...he had pods ...after getting caught in the rain and flooding his engine ..he put the airbox back in and I helped him synch it up right he could not believe how well it ran afterwards .

 

Le sigh, its the same argument with you over and over again.

• the flat spot can be reduced/removed with proper tuning. Be creative, nobody is saying it will be easy. If you watched the video, which i am guessing you didn't, the video even says its hard to tune and takes time and to properly do it, you need a dyno.
  
• flooded engine from rain? really? To be honest the rain has some merit, not as much as you think. You can fabricate an inner sleeve inside the pod that works as a velocity stack and a rain shield. If that is not enough you can make a snap on rain shield that will deflect rain from pods as you ride. Your legs will also do some of that for you...
  
• If you are concerned about a bracket you can rig some support using tie wraps or... you can make one... Not difficult. Want me to draw one up?
• pods are great, like anything in life they can work when you put time into it. No one is saying they are a plug and play system.

Now to address the larger issue in this thread... The video was posted as an informative lesson about pods, velocity stacks, airboxs, air flow, and cv carbs. The video goes on to explain how things work and why they dont. It also goes through pros and cons for all. I really wished you watched the video before you posted your rant.

Any mention of pods and you seem to fly off the handle. While you have an opinion about pods that i disagree with, i respect it. what bothers me is i don't think you respect our decision to run pods on OUR bikes. As a Pod lover, I have fully thought about all of the obvious implications you mentioned. I also offered up on this website, ways to possibly fix or come close to fixing them. I do this trying to add value and to help spark creativity and a conversation. Instead of ranting about a carb bracket, why not offer a solution to the problem?

My mantra:
I love pods, they make my bike look cool and i dont care about a loss in 5 to 10 hp during an rpm range that lasts a few seconds! Lets shorten it... I LOVE PODS! Now its your turn!

 

Good for you Im not knocking you or what you do to Your bike . But there are newby out there that do not properly tune their bikes in the first place. Ripping out the airbox to put pods on and not getting their bike to run. As to the xs1100 in I believe they use a flat slide carbs which is different than the CV carb. But I could be wrong. I' m so sorry I have offended you was not my intention . I won't voice my oppion on pods but all I know my bike runs fantastic with the stock airbox and have not touched my carbs in over a year ...have a nice day

 

I don't want you not to comment. Comment but add to the conversation.

The video points that out about slide carbs. I really recommend watching it, which was the point to the posting.

The video take aways...

• Slide carbs are better for pods.
• Cv's work but there is a lot of work involved.
• Explains why velocity stacks work.
• Shows why pods dont work as a plug and play
• Explains why the biggest issue with pods isnt the flat spot but particulates. Pods filter out around 98%. Stock airbox does like 99.8%. The different between them is estimated to be about 4x more engine wear for pods.
• To do pods properly you need a dyno to test jets at different ranges. No dyno, means its harder to do and wont know for sure.

 

Would love to see a success story with an xj and pods.

 

Sybe you may know what your doing with the carbs pods , but I feel that there are folks out there that think that pods will turn their bike into a Hyabusa . Many don't realize the steps involved if your going to race bike ok but for day in day out use you may to fiddle with jets . I know I upset you was not my intention this was your post , I tried watching clip but kept cutting out on train .

 

Sybe has successfully fitted pods on his bike.
Not my thing and not Jet's either. Most members here prefer stock; a stock XJ has some serious get up and go. Pods do look cool and some get bikes without an airbox so going to pods could make sense.

Truth be told these bikes require a balancing act for reliable performance. Adding pods adds a variable that was not in the original engineered design of the bike, hence it can become a tuning nightmare.

In my opinion Sybe took an analytical approach and has achieved successful results . . . Somewhere on here he has a thread explaining what he did to get there.

Jet's statement is valid, many new members jump onto the pod wagon and then get frustrated (as do the members here trying to help) because, as stated earlier - there is no exact science (jetting/ air flow, etc) to tuning an XJ with pods.

 

The whole discussion of pods on this website has always been in regard to how they are a royal PITA to use with CV carbs (seeeing as how all models of XJ come with CV carbs). Never has anyone recommended against using them on any other type of carb.
Pods have their purpose, and that purpose will not suit every need.

 

It's not my thing either, but I'd love to see more people be able to successfully do it. This site has a wealth of knowledge on the bikes. So we can continue to expand it and help an future xjer make the bike they want.

 

This is not unlike wanting to see horses walk on their hind legs. Sure it can be done, but is it really worth the effort (particularly when there are alternatives)?

 

Like this?

 

Here is the thing, has anyone watched the video i posted? The video doesnt promote pods as an easy thing. In fact it tells you if you run pod you will wear our your motor 4x faster than an air box.

@k-moe the pita direction doesnt always come across as sincere. i am sure you answer the same questions here over and over again. I even witnessed new users with bad ideas get ridiculed over it. Telling them what they did was ugly but thats beside the point.

People are people. If they want to attempt pods without reading or understanding then they get what they get. There is enough information in the stupid carb question thread that if you rename it, add a disclaimer, this video and delete the unnecessary posts you can prolly make jt into a pod sticky.

Disclaimer: pods dont work for 90% of riders and only usable in 75% of weather. If you try it read here for a start, if not and you attempt it... then we dont want to hear it.

 

Just watched the first 10 mins at work (lunch break.). Guy sound knowledgeable and credible. He admits there is no 'silver bullet'. I will not be changing to pods anytime soon (probably ever) but this is interesting nonetheless. Give it a chance watch the video..

 

that guy who did pods didn't even like the cv carbs, so he did this

so if bling is what you're after, i think it goes like
1 FI
2 flat slides with pods
3 hogfiddles carbs and air box
4 hogfiddles carbs and pods
5 cv carb and pods
if you want performance is what you want
same order.
notice cv carbs and pods is last, go for it

 

The horse video . . . that guys nipples must chafe wearing suspenders without a shirt!
The original XS video . . . educational and supports that some bikes just won't perform at peak efficiency with pods (as well as shortening the engine life span.

Both videos - subjective viewpoint of one subject - doesn't make either one gospel.

Maybe there should be a POD sub-forum where 'everything POD' (pro and con) could be discussed and any newbies wanting direction can go to find the best way to fine tune their bike.

Honestly - both sides of this issue have their heels dug in the dirt and posts are becoming redundant. No one is wrong for having their beliefs - what is wrong is trying to get someone with an alternative viewpoint to accept your belief . . .

 

@sybe

Sometime before the weekend is over I'll put your original post into a new thread and lock that one. I'm hesitant to remove discussion posts from an open thread. So far this one has remained civil, and I'll leave it open so long as that is the case.

 

I have had success with tuning FJ600 carbs with pods. This video only shows aggressive acceleration but was civil in traffic as well.

 

A thread for the video alone has been created, stickied, and locked. Discussion can continue here.

 

Thanks.

 

Carbs are applied science. Science does not require belief in order to be true.
Preference is another matter.

 

Particularly when it is actual science, and not just theory ....

 

Theory is an important part of science. It is the starting point of every experiment. You make a theory, come up with tests for the theory, collect data based on test results, and prove or disprove your theory.
"Pods work well with cv carbs" is a theory that has been tested many times, and the majority of the evidence from these tests indicates that the theory is untrue.

 

Umm......pardon me for the UGH, as I teach science.

What Matti describes is a hypothesis, though it has become common parlance to refer to it as a theory in everyday speech.

A scientific theory is an explanation for how something works or occurs, and that is shown to be accurate by repeatedly testing the explanation and getting the same (or very similar) results. The germ theory of disease transmission is one example. Another is the theory of fluid dynamics (which holds airplanes aloft, and makes carburetors work, etc.).

To complete the series;
A scientific law is a theory that describes some portion of how the universe works (the law of gravitational attraction is the most well-known).

 

On Vancouver Island, where I live, we get frequent rainfall and being in a rain forest some parts are perpetually wet and misty. I haven't had to push my bike off the road and wait for it to dry out once since I replaced the POs pods with the original airbox. With the pods on I would have to take the car to work if there was any chance it would rain.

I also think the pods are ugly but I may be in the minority there.

 

This is not the proper way to state a theory, as the word "well" is not defined operationally. What does "well" mean to you, to me, to any of a thousand other people? Without a specific definition, then any results can (and will) be argued over endlessly, and what is REALLY being argued over is the definition of the word "well".

Science, math, and other technical disciplines tend to use long, very specific words and definitions for a reason.......to eliminate ambiguity and create precision out of chaos.

 

Sorry guys. I haven't been in a lab since the last century. My THEORY is that my high school teachers did a semi-decent job of getting through to the kid who was doing pharmaceutical experiments on himself in the back of the class!

*Edit: Scientifically speaking, a fail is a fail. No grey area. I was rong.

 

he replaced his carbs because of a idle mixture was over tightened and damage the seat.

 

I think pods look cool on the correct bike or when used with the correct carbs, and they are an air filter so I assume you have to buy new ones every few years.
but that is where the issue comes in spending a grand or so on the correct carbs is is very unattractive to me.

the pods on my poor abused XK750J look nice but are rusted and clogged with oil from breather tube being tied up between them,so sad.
I am going to try them out just to compare them to the XJ750K, then find an air box for J and be done with the pod thing.
I figure I should see what I run into and can adjust just to expand my knowledge base. With all the info coming out it should be fun.
1st problem is i will need a new set of pods, because of the rust, hope I do not offend the Yamaha ninja his last visit to me was eyeopening.

 

A little late - been far too busy ....

Nice explanation. I thought it was theory until a hypothesis was repeatable, at which time it became scientific fact. Words matter, so I will try to use the words "scientific theory" more accurately. Thanks!

 

I think the order is
Idea (can CV carb sets work properly with pods ) which turns into
hypothesis would be the changes you make and test out then when testing looks successful it turns into
theory when a theory is tested and accepted by the communities at large it becomes a.
Law

or something like that

How to Develop a Theory: 14 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow


just a little bored at the moment

 

It seem this forum, and dozens of others, are stuck on trying to get a working hypothesis regarding pods on CV carbs.

 

Laws and theories are equivalent in the sense that they are based on the results of repeated tests of hypotheses. The diffrernce is that laws always describe how the universe works (though some theories do as well), where theories are more specific and may not hold true ouside of the particular environment being studied.

 

Not really. The reality is that they can work and actually can work well, but the amount of effort required is insane. The big problem for the home mechanic (e.g. all of us) is not having the ability to do bench-flow tests with an endless supply of air jets, fuel jets, slides, needles, and diaphram springs, in order to figure out the right combination that lets the carbs work as well as they do with the airbox (and there will likely still be compromises in power delivery and general rideability on public roads). There are 7 variables in terms of air jetting alone (eight if you want to drill the slides). The testing regimen necessary to develop a solid data sheet for a particular brand and style of pod filter (yet another variable) would take more time than most sane people are willing to do without being paid for the work.

 

A law describes an observable phenomenon. E.g. The law of gravity

A theory explains why the phenomenon occurs. E.g. Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity.

 

Also true. The definitions are a bit fuzzy at times.

 

I'm a cunning linguist. I'll use 'em however I feel at the moment. Sometimes I use them wrong on porpoise for comedy.
Malapropism? Any English teachers in the house?

 

what was the question again?

 

Something to do with motorcycles, I think!

 

If Yamaha had wanted my XJ to have pods, they would have designed it with pods.

Sorry in advance for my obscurantist statement......

 

or they tried to and abandoned the idea

 

Same goes for circumcision.

 

Can't fool me. Yamaha didn't invent that.

 

circumcision is like customizing your bike. It's all in what the rider likes.

 

Who ever said, "I think it's a little too long. How about a little off the tip?"
No one. That's who.

 

with the slip stream of air rushing past the sides of a bike, wouldn't pods #1+4 be fighting to breathe
more than pods #2+3. Self taught just speculating not an engineer.

 

Yes, sort of. The outer pair are going to be fighting against low pressure at speed because of the aistream that's induced by the motorcycle. One of the tricks that helps is to partially shroud the outer pair. This is why pods tend to work somewhat better on the XJ650 Seca than on the other models; the sidecovers partially shroud the pods.

 

I can reason that the air boxes would deliver an even air pressure to all 4 carbs

 

Running pods means you had to rejet correct? In putting pods in my xj650 now and I was wondering were a good place to order jets from was

 

You should be able to get jets from XJ4Ever (upper right hand corner) BUT - before you do, make sure your bike is dialed in and performing successfully with a stock configuration, because there is no firm science for what size jets you need to have the bike running its best with pods. Establish that the bike performs reliably and powerful first - then modify with pods, you will have a base line as to what type of performance to expect.