IC Ignitor WIP

So, I'm going to be starting on a big project involving the electrical system of my XJ650, and while I don't have much to offer (and wont for a few months when my schedule opens up) I did have a little something that I wanted to share, a WIP diagram for the TID14-06 that my XJ uses.

 

here is some info that may help you

http://www.xjcd.org/TCI_repair

http://www.xjcd.org/TCI_transistors

is it your plan to reproduce the pcboard or map out the schmatic

 

Very cool. Keep us posted as you further develop this. TCI is something I personally would love to address build priorities permitting.

 

Thanks for the links, I suspect that those will be quite helpful.
I will absolutely be mapping it out, however, I may stop short of reproducing the board. At the very least I want to document what I can so that sharper minds and steadier hands will have the information to make things happen.

I will keep you posted, it will likely be a few months before I have more than this to share.

 

there is 1 other thread witch is a few years old where someone was doing something like what you are doing if you can find it it may have info for you

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/tci-upgrade-options.93295/

 

A little more progress. Should be decapping the HA1825P chip sometime in the next while

 

There's a place in the US...I'm sure there's more than one, that will make you custom PCB boards, depending on your needs.....

 

Some additional progress, but it looks like ill need to get some help from my good friend Nitric acid in order to read the die. Also, its the HA1825P chip that is imaged there

 

Nice. Someone's got an X-ray.

I suspect the HA1825 is a semi-custom done by Hitachi for use only in their own ignition stuff, so I doubt you'll find stock anywhere. Hitachi was big in that sort of thing and the TCI isn't the only example I've run across.

So what's your plan for the laser trimmed sub-assy on the ceramic substrate?

 

I finished the acid bath moments after you posted your picture, but it had already been a long day at work, so I didn't have the patience to hang around and image it under a microscope today.
Ill get to that on Monday I suspect, which should provide all the information needed on the custom chip.

I don't yet have a plan for the sub-assembly. I am tackling this one hurdle at a time, and I am almost ready to start grappling with that. As my field is Chemistry and not Electrical Engineering I am doing a lot of learning as i go here. I mean... I get how electrons work.... but that is not as useful in this instance.

That disassembly is a work of ART! especially compared to my hack-job.

If you have the time and the inclination, I would love to have verification on the values of the resistors and diodes, but only if it wont put you out.

 

Not trying to diminish or dissuade your efforts in any way, but I'm not sure what you hope to learn by looking at the HA1825 die under the microscope. Just because you can see the die with your own two eyes will lend little information as to what exactly it does, or where to find a replacement. I mean... Sure it would be cool, and I'd love to have a look with you, but I don't think it's going to help a whole lot in the big picture.

So when you say things like "(viewing under a microscope) should provide all the information needed on the custom chip", I'm not sure what it is you hope to gain.

I've seen a number of various die under microscopes, and even reversed engineered (simple) sections of circuits on one or two of them, but there's no way I or anyone I know would be able to make heads or tails of what you're going to see inside that HA1825 unless they had a whole lot of other supporting documentation about the design. I'd love to be proven wrong though, so good luck!!

And as for other info I can help with, etc, I'd be glad to help in any way I can. I can help with any of the macroscopic design details (like component values) you have questions about. Ask away when you have questions.

 

I don't so much have the goal of making a replacement, if I can actually construct something that will replace the original ignitor unit, I would be over the moon.
I have little intention of learning exactly what the chip does, or where to find a replacement, but if I stumbled on that, I would be thrilled.
As mentioned, I am a chemist and not an electrical engineer. My hope is that the image of the die allows those with expertise in that field the information that they need. Maybe that is naive of me to think, but hey, Ill follow this rabbit hole as far as I can if I think it will help those down the road.

I have one, and only one goal here: compile as much information as I can

and 15 years of riding has taught me that sometimes the journey is its own reward.

 

Preliminary image of die from HA1825P

 

Awesome. Love the pic of the die.

And I'm with ya for learning anything about the original design, even if it's just academic. I'm happy to help where I can.

So as far as replacing with a similar function device, I believe there are a couple aftermarket options at this point. The basic concept is pretty simple... Two ins, and two outs. The only remotely complicated hurdles are timing advance and dwell. I believe the original design did everything in the analog realm with calibration and tuning adjusted by the laser trimmed sub-board. Today, you would throw a little microcontroller at it instead.

 

I made TCI for XJ few years ago. I will cooperate as I can if you have what want to ask for me.

 

An electrical schematic of the TCI would be wonderful, although I know that is wishful thinking. Or, perhaps just a data sheet on the HA1825P Integrated Circuit, or one less a good educated guess to what it is and does - quad Op Amp for frequency to voltage conversion to adjust timing, or something else?

 

Yu Tanaka, I remember your work with your replacement TCI. Neat stuff.

http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/original-ignitor-tci.95931/

 

Rooster53, I don't think you'll find a datasheet for the HA1825P unless you have a connection inside Hitachi.

I believe I have a schematic around here somewhere for the TCI, but it's kinda worthless without knowing more details about that HA1825 part. It's the only "interesting" part of the whole assembly.

 

How are all of these other guys (Hyperpak, the guys in Czechoslavakia, etc.) making usable replacement TCI units with the original specs?

 

Thanks everyone for offers of assistance and interest. Sadly, disaster struck and the die is now missing, so the images I have will have to do for now until I get my hands on another chip. On the plus side, I do have a few images of the die that ill try to clean and share once I have something worth sharing.