Simmy's Naked Turbo Project

I'm just planning to install another elbow to the waste gate pointing down away from the tire.

I searched through a thousand ebay passenger peg brackets and found this pic of the 1st gen FZR600.
I'd like to find a set of these because they are steel and I can easily modify them, they need to hold the pipe on the left instead of the right and line up with the holes on the frame.
The LJ and the RJ differ a lot in their passenger brackets. The 2 mounting holes are way different.
I have a friend who does a lot of aluminum welding so maybe modifying modern ones from most any sportbike is a better option.
The original Turbo LH exhaust I have is still intact but the finish is all pitted and the styling is not what I'm after.
I want something bright that looks generic. I saw the left hand silencer from a 675 Triumph triple looked really cool but I suspect it would be too restrictive.

 

Hey, advice is free to take or to leave.....receivers choice....and I've done both before! LOL
Charlie and Gerry at Gpop might be able to hook you up if you call.....they really are great guys & VERY helpful, even for 130 dollor orders.

The rebuild is easy and intuitive....but don't forget that balance issue. Gerry at Gpop wanted me to send in my turbo after I rebuilt it for "pro" balancing but with some effort, you can hit the correct landing marks and if not, then you can send it. Who knows, maybe I got lucky?

Good luck!

jeff

 

I got lucky too! (With JeffK's help of course, he lives near me and helped me rebuild my turbo charger). Followed all his advice including the GPop shop kit, call them and they'll help you out just like he said.
I've put about 9000 miles on my turbo since 2012, with about 11 psi of boost with a manual boost controller (and plenty of times running it up) and it's doing great!

 

TC-03 turbo rebuild kit arrived from G Pop. Last one in stock!
I watched a few tutorials on You Tube how to rebuild a Mitsubishi turbocharger.
Looks straight forward, I just hope the major parts are good.

 

I think there was one piece (one of the end plates or washers?)that did not get installed when I did mine but the kit may be different now too. I ended up calling Charlie at Gpop on a Sunday to ensure my proper assembly...and he couldn't have been more helpful or nicer. Maybe Manbot remembers for sure since he did his more recently??....and he did an amazing job on his custom gauges too! Envy!!

jeff

 

While stripping the bike down I found this spot on the frame with some corrosion.
There's a small hole through the frame which may have been there because of shitty welds.
You can see under cutting in the weld right up to the hole.
Whether or not the hole caused the corrosion or corrosion caused the hole it needs fixing, especially on anything with Turbo written on it.
I stripped the entire bike down without any issues, including the intake manifolds from the head and the knock sensor from the block.
This particular old bike is a real pleasure to work on as every nut & bolt seems to be never touched since the factory.
It's a mechanical virgin.

 

I reached a major milestone in my project.
The Turbo is torn down to pieces and the XJ6560RJ is now on the bench.
This bike sadly is soon to be no more. It will cease to be a motorcycle in a few more visits to the garage.
You can see the Turbo in the back ground of this pic, looks like a bicycle against the wall.

 

Congrats on reaching this Milestone Simmy~!~

Keep doing the "next thing" and soon you are going to have a really nice, new bike!

jeff

 

Thanks Jeff, the RJ is now torn to bits.
I need to clean up the mess from all the demolition and put the LJ and RJ frames side by side. I suspect the steering lock may be different, we'll see soon.

 

I have my motors all lined on my scissor table. This will be my R&D lab as I try to combine 900 parts with the 650 Turbo.
The 1st one on the left is a 900, this will get stripped 1st to check the condition of the barrels, pistons and crank.
The 2nd motor is my numbers matching turbo motor and the cases I intend to use.
3rd from left is another turbo I intend to use for a mock up. I'm going to find out if the 900 crank will fit the 650Turbo cases.
This will be a trial/error fit up before I disturb anything in my real motor.
On the far right is the standard XJ650RJC which may come in handy for something, alternator, valve shims, crank bearings, who knows?



I'm ready to start removing the tail and any tabs needed from the RJ frame.

 

nothing to update this thread with any progress as home renos currently in the way.
I did manage to score some shiny shocks off an 83 XJ900RK or 84 XJ750RL.
These will give my Seca some bling and it's all Yamaha, I like that.

 

Oooh, offset reservoir? Sparkly!

 

confirmation that the RJ tank needs mods to fit the Turbo petcock.



2 years searching this is the best tank I could find. There is one big dent in the top otherwise it is pretty good.
There is no rust anyway.

My plan is to cut the petcock mount right out of the turbo tank and just lap it onto the RJ tank for welding.
Turbo tanks are all over ebay and not worth more than scrap metal

 

For the actual turbo unit rebuild I packaged it up with the new replacement seals kit and sent off to Cherry Turbos here on the Canadian side.
At least this way I know it will be perfect.

I received a BoostValve in the mail. This will enable adjustment of boost pressures. Looks to be real quality kit machined from aluminum.
I bought some Ducati 900SS silencers because I liked the look of them.
I'm thinking the bike will look better with 2 pipes even if it does add weight.
As you can see it will not be that easy to swap over the snaked bends and make it fit.
Pictured is the waste gate side (RH). The left hand side is a similar challenge.
The welds will be carbon to SS. At least I think the Yamaha pipes are just CS.
The Ducati flows just 450cc's from each side so I'm not sure if the left side only will flow everything the XJTurbo exhales.
Need to know this before I go to this trouble. Did I say I love the look of them?

 

Here are the bits removed from the RJ frame which will be welded on to the LJ frame.

On the LJ the battery sits on the left. The RJ battery sits on the right.
It appears the left side lower clip for the RJ side cover will interfere with the battery.
I can either install a slimmer battery or mount the clip not so deep and modify the side cover tab.

Below is the tab I'm talking about. It doesn't have to be so deep.
I can modify the side cover here.


The pic below shows how much shorter the RJ tail is to the LJ

 

It appears the RJ has less steering angle than the turbo but without the steering stem assembled it is hard to tell.
The RJ has slightly lower handle bars maybe this is why.
The RJ had tapered bearings installed but the races are impossible to remove., there is no shoulder to catch the punch.
The LJ still had balls so I can't just fit it together at the moment to see.
I think I will run a few passes of weld on the LJ stops before painting the frame. Easy to file it down later if needed.


RJ above
LJ below

 

That was a mild brain fart as I was only comparing the fork lock.
The steering stops are at the bottom of the stem.
Actually it is the RJ with the tighter steering. This makes more sense because the LJ has all that fairing.
Below, the vernier is on the LJ, then I moved it to the RJ stem without adjusting it so you can see how much different it is.
I took some basic measurements of the stops on the lower fork clamps and it appears the stops are the same on both.
I will need to assemble the RJ triple tree into the LJ frame with the ignition installed to make sure this all fits, - before painting.
The trouble is that one bike had tapered bearings so now the parts don't easily interchange.
I was planning to buy new tapered steering bearings but now I have to fit the ball type back onto the RJ clamps just to verify the fit up.

 

I assembled the RJ fork clamps to the LJ frame with the main switch installed to verify the fit and to make sure
it clears the fuel tank at full lock. Steering lock works with key, good to go.


You can see where I cut off the bottom edge of the main fairing mount to clear the RJ's headlight mounting frame.
I'm undecided about cutting these mounts completely off. If I ever mount some type of fairing these might come in handy.
The LJ serial number tag is in a weird spot because of this tab.

All clear with the steering lock to tank

 

As I long suspected the mounting plate for the fuel pump fouls with the RJ tank.
I put the bottom of the tank in the picture so you can see that the RJ tank actually has a bulge which protrudes
down between the frame rails to carry extra fuel.
I have 2 options, relocate the fuel pump or bash the fuel tank in .



You can see above this interference keeps the tank about a 1/2" from resting in place.

 

Question for JeffK, you installed an R6 fuel pump. Was it smaller and how did you mount it?

 

Very cool, followign this build for sure.

If you put an @ symbol in front of a users name, it will alert them that you mentioned them. In this case @JeffK

 

Thanks Jay I did not know that.
Just looked up R6 fuel pump on ebay. It is full of new $20 Chinese units I've read best to avoid.
Spotted a used genuine Yamaha unit for $40.
In any event it will not be much of an ordeal to re-position one lower.
I will proceed to remove the OEM fuel pump mounts.

 

Can you just use a small (thin) spacer at the rear of the tank to "jack up" the RJ tank slightly (so as the clear the pump mount)? A 1/4" at the back might translate to 1/2" clearance in the area of concern........

 

It’s a lever with the pivot at the steering stem. Half way out where the fuel pump mounts will be twice that where the seat joins up. There would be a large gap to the side covers, no good.
The OEM fuel pump seems huge compared to an R6. I planned to replace the fuel pump with a higher pressure pump anyway. The fact it is smaller solves my issue. I really want this thing to look like the bike Yamaha should have built. I met up with Brian at BDesign (we’re in the same town) and he is making me custom graphics which will enforce the illusion. I’m not revealing anything more on this at this point.

 

Only difficulty with that solution is that the input and output on the R6 pump are on the same end of the pump, instead of being on opposite ends like the turbo pump...........this can make fuel hose routing a bit of a challenge, given the placement of the petcock, pressure regulator, and the check valve. And don't forget to save and re-use hose spiral springs on the outside of the fuel hoses, those are to prevent the hose from collapsing internally when the hose is forced into tight bends.

 

Thanks Len, more stuff to noodle on and another sleepless night thinking about this nonsense.
Perhaps the ultimate solution is to install the pump in the tank like the R6. More tricky welds though.

 

I would recommend a Nike solution.......

 

I was watching all your recent updates and was waiting to comment and didn't see your question. I mounted the R6 pump using a clamp, with it's collar in the same location as stock, wired directly to the stock connection so it comes on with the starter...etc.

I had to mod the tubing since I mounted it with the outlets opposite of the stock configuration but that was just a bit of plumbing but it's tight in there so be mindful. The R6 pump gives me plenty of psi, well above the 18 or so I run.

Your bike is looking good! I had no idea that you were building this practically from the ground up!

jeff

 

RJ tail fitted to LJ frame, not welded yet

I had some 7/8" tubing on hand from some previous project.
A little time on my shade tree lath (bench grinder) allowed it to fit inside the sub-frame tubing.

nice easy gap for welding. Still need to V it out a bit with a bastard file

RJ and LJ have same seat latch bracket, this saves effort

seat latch

One seat hinge ready

 

I have the frame as far I can go in my garage now.
I fitted and tacked all the XJ650RJ side cover tabs and seat hinges but its not welded out yet.
My welding sucks, and I know many welders.
After that its sandblast and paint.

I'm also consolidating everything else that gets sandblast and paint.
My last bike resurrection I sandblasted and painted all the black stuff myself.
If I can get all this stuff done by a professional it will sure make my life easier.
Powder coating is my dream.
​

After the frame I'm going to focus on the motor.
For now I'm hoping I can just revive the original numbers matching Turbo motor.
It will be infinitely easier to revive this XJ650LJ if I keep everything mechanically stock.
If I get it running with more boost it might be all the fun I need.
Big displacement is a later possibility but I always envisioned doing that alongside a running bike.
That's why I have the 900 and another Turbo motor for a mock up.

I have the original wiring harness and also the RJ harness. I'd like to lay them out on a table.
I can see salvaging parts of the RJ harness around the headlight.
Another big dream would be to have a wiring harness all complete and ready to strap in.
I have the entire XJ650RJC headlight and instrument cluster from what was a museum quality bike with 13,000 kms.
That was the holy grail find I needed to build this bike.
It was being cafe'd. I also have the seat, side covers and blinkers from that bike.
My wiring mods are basically just an Atari delete I think.

 

Now that I'm this far into this bike my opinion is it's a better plan to do what I did, basically adapted the RJ cosmetics onto the turbo bike.
Its better than adapting the turbo to the RJ
The 2 frames are actually way different where the centre stand mounts.
A lot of this has to do with the Turbo nestled in there on the LJ.
There are some substantial brackets there you would need to replicate that hold the turbo.
Also the turbo won't fit the standard frame without removing the LH pedestal tab for the centre stand.
I did that on my sidecar seca as I'm running it with a turbo collector.
The turbo is not much of a collectible now but having a numbers matching bike is always worth more.
I wonder if anyone knows how many Turbos VS XJ650Rs were made?

 

I think that Turbo production was around 1500 or so (total for both years). The RJ's were much higher, and that's not even counting the "rest-of-the-world" XJ650 models which were, basically, the same as the RJ models (actually, that's backwards, as the R-O-T-W models came before the RJ did; the RJ was the "re-branded for the North American market" version of the ROTW bikes). Besides paint colours and minor electrical differences, the RJ's and the ROTW models are identical.

 

1500 units is very low. I would think they have to be collectables at some time.
Considering how many have been parted out on eBay I'm not sure how many remain today.

 

Not picking an argument but the production numbers for the 82 turbo were approx 3500 and the '83 at only 1500. A couple years ago on the Turbo board we estimated there to be less than 500 worldwide today. It has never found a niche w/collectors though....

Paul Miller up in New England, while famous for his Suzuki parts, sold a MINT 2,000 original-mile Turbo 2-3 yrs ago on ebay and and it barely broke 2 grand!

jeff

 

Still relatively low numbers. 500 remaining world wide is very scarce indeed.
I'm hoping mine will be the only one on the planet disguised as a standard Seca.
In a way, the fact they are not yet valuable lets me customize it however I want.
The fact that almost everything I'm bolting together is period Yamaha somehow keeps it authentic.
It will be the perfect companion to my 911 Seca-X at the annual vintage show.
2 650 Secas which are not actually 650 Secas.

Hey Jeff I read about your installation of the external check valve. I'm not sure I want to go that route.
I've read on the TMOIA forum one member has a fix for the OEM check valve but I'm not sure exactly what he does? I haven't actually pulled one apart yet.
I've also read about the 0-ring at the scavenge pump inlet failing which is included in my next order to Chacal.
Apparently that can also bleed oil to the turbo.

The turbo vendor did a brief inspection of my unit and said there is really no reason to open it up unless to de-carbon it.
I told him to proceed to de-carbon it and install new bearings and seals anyway. He agreed at 37,000 kms it is a good idea.
The unit had been cleaned by the previous owner and I'm not sure if it had been disassembled or not.
I expect it will be dynamically balanced/inspected when he's done.
It appears that oil pooling in the turbo was the only reason this bike was parked.
The vendor also said he recently tried G-Pop for replacement bearings for another client and was told they have no more. I got the last kit they had.
He adapted another cartridge from another model turbo to fix him up. With only 500 remaining it doesn't make sense for someone to stock these parts.
Chacal probably has sources,

Back in 84-89 when I had one of these from new I rode it 75,000 kms with very few issues.
I sold it to a buddy after that and watched him hold on to some scary boost induced wobbles.
Something was obviously wacked, most likely steering head, maybe just tire pressure.

 

This is probably more accurate. I was going off my dull-and-dim recollection at the time and perhaps having an Oldenheimers moment......

 

Yes, I use a 12V solenoid on my fuel supply line to prevent passing of gasoline and a very low pressure check valve on the Turbo's oil return line to prevent exactly as you mentioned, oil pooling at the turbo. It has worked perfectly for me.

I think that you're safe from the "purists" (which I am one) since there isn't a market for these bikes. Cut up one of these tanks and no one is going to cry. Can't say it was that way when a friend went to cut up a RD400 Daytona tank<LOL>!

Understand there are no "bearings" as such, what there is are tiny (14mm diameter or so) rings with an opening, like a piston ring. These "bearings" float in oil while thrust washers take up any ETE movement.

The TD03 kit for the 650 Turbo is the same kit for the Dodge Colt Turbo....Gerry at Gpop is the one who told me. The balance thing is very smart. They rotate at up to 212,000RPM.....if the balance isn't perfect, you get no reward(high boost).

I really love what you are building Simmy! A lot of us can bring a bike to like, less can do an actual restoration but you are building from nearly the ground up! Very impressive and great work quality too!

I regularly run mine till the safety kicks in and ends the fun at 21psi or so and have never felt a wobble sneaking it's way in. My bike is stock other than Tapered head bearings and of course my turbo plumbing but that it's, all stock otherwise.

jeff

 

I think the check valve you are referring to on the other forum is the Oil Supply check valve. Des redresses the seat for the ball, improving the action.

jeff

 

Yes that's the one. If that's fixed as well as replacing the o-ring at the scavenge inlet to the oil pump should eliminate any chance of oil pooling into the turbo.
I'm curious that you installed a solenoid valve in the fuel supply. Did you keep the mechanical check valve in the fuel supply also? I haven't read of any problems with that.

Thanks for the encouragement. Having my sidecar Seca around is a big advantage. I've already referred to it a few times to figure out which way something mounts. Also the chassis mods are the same as I've already done to my sidecar bike so no surprises there. The 16" wheels lower the gearing and quicken the steering. I just bought the stiffest fork springs from Racetech for the FZ600 forks I'm using. There were 3 choices. The turbo is at least 100 lbs heavier than an FZ and I'm no lightweight either.
My last project and what I'm most proud of was resurrecting a 67 BSA 441 Victor. A true basket case as everything was in bits. Later model parts were included which weren't even compatible and a bunch of Norton stuff thrown in for fun. Literally started by fumbling through the pile and finding everything needed for the crankshaft. Took me 4 years to complete. I'm much more at home with this old Yamaha stuff. The Turbo was actually my 1st street bike, really looking forward to feeling that rush again.

 

I always know when I"m talking with a "real" vintage restorer because invariably they will talk about their British bikes and never mention the complaints common to lesser men (a compliment). You know, like letting the smoke out of the wires, tickling a tickler and of course they never seal again, dripping gas on the tranny. Respect brother!


jeff

 

Dec. 28 2018 frame is all welded and now 10 months since my 1st post.
Now it feels like I have a bike instead of just an idea and a whole lotta junk cluttering up my garage.

 

actually 1 year and 10 months

 

Need some pics! I know the feeling, I’m about to tear into mine and will have that garage clutter again until done.

 

Nothing much to see since the last pic of the frame.
I did relocate the lower LH sidecover tab to clear the battery.
The LH sidecover will need to be correspondingly modified.
Hoping the RH side clears the TCI. This was something which should have been looked at prior to tearing it apart. Fingers are crossed.

 

nearly ready to see my powder coater.
Here's the before pic of my wheels, 16's front and back, 2.50" and 3.00" widths courtesy of FZ600 and XJ700.

 

Are you powder coating solid color? I'm about to drop my frame and other bits for powder and was contemplating the wheels. I like the painted/polished look but I haven't asked them yet if they can do that or not.

 

In my case the wheels will be solid black. The wheel patterns don't match and black is best way to hide that.
You can mask off anything prior to the coating process just like paint if you want sections aluminum polished.

 

Left everything with the powder coaters on Friday.
Most parts will be black but I left some stuff to be done in silver.
I’ve seen some chrome powder coating results which come close to electroplating but they don’t offer it. The brake pedal and drum backing plate are getting this brilliant silver finish.

 

how much are they charging you for the frame and parts? i have a few quotes coming in and i have nothing to go by.

 

These prices are CDN so not sure how relevant they are;
Motorcycle frames $325
Wheels (a pair) $325
Certainly more money than paint but more durable.
Everything is expensive, what can you do.