Cylinder Juggs Seperating from Crankcase

Hi everyone

I have tried a blowtorch and loads of WD40 on this stud which is holding the juggs to the crankcase. Have any of you had this problem and how did you sort it? I will keep applying heat and put a nut on it to protect the threads so I can tap it with a hammer. Is there a better way of doing this? I have heard of people using Alum but I have never tried that.

 

Alum or sulphuric acid are good for eating broken pieces of steel out of all aluminum. I don't think it would be helpful here.

An angle grinder or Dremel to cut a slot across the nut would probably free it.

Another option would be to weld a cheap socket to it. That ensures a good grip on the socket and also applies a bunch of heat to the nut which should help unfreeze it. If you're doing much of such projects, a MIG welder and an angle grinder are very valuable tools. Between the two you can make or repair parts and tools and save a lot of time and headache. A nice gas-based welder is great, but even a cheap innershield Chinese one can be quite handy.

Knock on wood, I don't think I've had any hardware freeze or snap on my XJ.

 

Thanks l will try what you stated. I can get the nut off but l cannot get the juggs off the case. I have an angle grinder but l need to get a welder. I put a propane blowtorch on it for five minutes today and used two nuts locked together and still it won't move. That is the only problem l have. I think the Scottish winters have caused the corrosion. Well l will have another go at it and hope it comes out. I got a starter chain and new cam chain so l need to remove it. You must have good weather if you don't get parts seizing lol.

 

Isn’t there a bolt from the oil filter chamber too? Did you get that hidden one?

 

I took the bolt out inside the oil filter housing but the juggs are still not moving. If I apply heat inside the cam tunnel at the front of the juggs that might free the stud in the juggs but I have to remove the cam chain guide first. Other than that I could drill it out and get the engineering shop to remove the remains of the stud and fit a new one.

 

WD-40 no

try some acetone and atf 50-50 mix

 

I will try that as I was going to get some to clean the piston crowns a bit more the WD is not very good.

 

Turning the crank doesn't tend to lift them with the pistons? I've never (knock on wood) had to pull the cylinders off an XJ. When I did the valves in my GPz, the jugs came off all by themselves. Same with my daughter's Ninja 250. I guess Kawasaki makes this a bit easier.

 

Usually they slide right up

 

so the nut is off, you believe everything else of consequence in unbolted. but the stud is seized in the bore? correct?

and in your trails you attempted with double nut, heat and lube, to try and back out the stud to remove it rather than lift it through the bore? and it didnt turn at all???

That sucker must be uber seized in that bore. welding to it would give you more purchase, weather a nut or a socket, maybe some kind of shake and break kinda action? thats an impact hammer with a socket adapter.

failing all else or your patience. i suppose you could drill it out. i would only go far enough to free the jugs. then when they are off take to a machines to get the remains of the stud removed and new one installed. maybe they can back it out or they drill and tap it.

and we are sure all other fasteners are off and this is the only thing holding it on?

 

It is the stud at the bottom of the cylinders the is the culprit, same as the head I had to get the two studs at the head cylinder joint drilled out. As soon as I had drilled them the head lifted off easily.

 

Yes I have got everything off it is the stud seized in the bore, I will have to drill it out. I will need to get a long shanked Cobalt drill as the chuck on my power drill will hit the crankcase and stop me drilling perpendicular to the bore.

 

I will put the Acetone ATF mix and soak it a bit too.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIG-MAG-...=12416378903896915d404ef741ba9a9561c43b122c47

 

Thanks for the welder link SQLGuy.

 

Got Cobalt HSS drill bits ordered as a last resort.

 

PB Blaster or good old Liquid Wrench are always better than WD-40, which is not a penetrating oil. Heat might still work for you but try a cylinder of MAP gas instead of propane. It is much hotter and therefore will heat faster, helping to heat the zone you want without heating everything with a cooler propane flame. Never heat the stud, just the area it is screwed into. You only want to expand the threaded hole instead of the stud, which might make it stick even more.

 

I will try that. Good point too about the hotter MAP gas flame putting heat in the aluminium quicker without it travelling too far. Nice bike you have got there.

 

Do you have an Air hammer? Even a small one. Put right on the stud the vibration will break up some rust at least

 

No but I can borrow one I will try that later.

 

the aluminum conducts heat so well that it's not going to expand the hole. you can't get a wrench on it before it transfers that heat to the rest of the block.
gunsmiths will heat the screw rather than the gun, logic is the screw will expand because it's insulated from the rest by the corrosion.
when the screw expands, it crushes the corrosion then shrinks and leaves a little room.
the oil is put on after the heat, so it doesn't burn up and turn to ash and make things tighter

 

I am going to drill it out l think then a local shop can remove the remains of the stud off the cylinders. Perhaps heating it has made it worse.

 

stop, don't drill it, if it's going to a shop let them take it out. if you mess it up they have to fix that and get it out. they would rather start from scratch

 

Thanks Polock good point. I have more damage with stud holes at the front of the cam tunnel which were like this then I bought the bike. Ideally I know the damage needs welded and redrilled but in the present circumstances I cannot get that done, and I cannot get a welder to attempt it myself. So I would like your opinions on the following regarding heat dissipation as I have made up a plate to secure the nuts on the underside of the studs too. Will the plate have any adverse effects on cooling in your opinions?



It is a temporary solution until I can get it repaired properly. Good idea or not?

 

i might be tempted to use nuts like this https://www.mcmaster.com/hex-flange...ength-steel-serrated-flange-locknuts-class-8/
and let it go like that, it can't move and all it needs to do is squeeze the gasket
but then again that's why the call me polock

 

Yes they would not be able to slacken off with the serrations I will use them. There is enough metal there for the nut to grip, my idea with the plate was also to keep the road dirt out.

 

Call me the village idiot if I am stating the obvious........the stud which is screwed into the cylinder, and passes thru a boss on the upper half of the crank case, it is frozen in the boss and won't allow the cylinder to be lifted up and out. Is this correct?

A couple of ideas come to mind:
heat the boss with the torch, get some dry ice, quench the stud, with the dry ice, after heating the boss, tap on the boss; not killer shots, see if it breaks free. Try to rock the cylinders, front to back. Try the air hammer carefully
Find an aircraft shop, talk to a mechanic, a bolt/stud frozen in aluminum due to galvanic corrosion would not be unknown to them; what do they do?
Don't know if you have "PB Blaster", "Kroil", "Liquid Wrench" in the UK, you want an aggressive penetrating solvent.

They are ideas, don't know if they are good or bad, just ideas.
Good luck!!

 

Yes that is what the problem is and I can get PB Blaster here I will try that and the other ideas you suggest thanks.

 

"aircraft shop" -- in Scotland?

 

We got a few of them here bensalf, by the way I used to work in Keighley with an elevator and escalator manufacturer.

 

Maybe he could throw a Haggis at it

 

I have already tried that

 

If a Haggis can't scare it apart, IT's STUCK!!

 

Don't do this without thinking it through. But are we at the point we beat up on the stud with the biggest hammer you got and hope for the best? It may break other parts though. Just throwing out desperation ideas

 

It is getting desperate as everything I try does not budge it. But I will persevere a little at a time and eventually get it out. I have tried a hammer and a punch but I don't want to break the cylinders or the crankcase so I have not dealt it heavy blows. I am going to work on other parts of the bike for a day or two, put some PB Blaster on it and try again cheers.

 

Rather than swinging a hammer, the air hammer is a much better choice; you have greater control of the force applied.

 

Air hammers are great unfortunately I don't have one I have seen them being used on seized car parts, brilliant they are. I wonder if a hammer drill would work although it rotates as well as having a hammer action which is not ideal? When I get this out I will be having a few beers.

 

I used to go to Appleyards in Keighley to the Goldwing open day. still got the wing, dunno if they still do the open day though. quite a gathering hundreds of us.
stu

 

I used to go down on the bike nice road from the motorway to Skipton. Good selection of bikes in that dealership.

 

you need a 12mm hole saw 150mm long

 

Cut through the aluminium instead of the stud Pollock. Great idea. I was going to open up the hole in the case after l got it separated in the hope it wouldn't seize again. Having said that l am nearly 60 so once fixed it will outlast me .

 

The thing with a hole saw is that it will wander all over the place, and cut a hole larger than 12 mm

 

The angle of the holesaw won't be 90 degrees to the stud too it will hit the crankcase. I like brainstorming you are all helping me find a solution thanks to all of you l appreciate your ideas. Going to whack it with my Bagpipes lol.

 

If the haggis didn't do it, not sure if the pipes will either.

Question: is the bike still down on the floor or do you have it up on a lift? Just thinking about how much maneuvering room you have. I'm thinking of dry ice again. screw the nut back onto the stud just enough to protect the threads, dry ice on stud/boss chill area well, with your torch, heat the boss to warn, the idea is to take advantage of rates of thermal expansion, the aluminum will absorb heat faster than the steel stud, with a drift that is long enough to come down below frame rails, lay it on the stud/nut wack it with your hammer. I'm thinking that the drift will give you a better target to hit. Just another idea.

"Do and hope" Clan Matheson

 

Engine is on the floor at the moment, getting a portable bench tommorrow and I will try the dry ice to see if I can get it out. It is like putting a bearing in the freezer overnight before fitting it in to a casting, same principle.

 

Flip it on it's side and have at it!

 

Tried again but going to wait till l receive items in the post next week to remove it.

 

Success. I am very pleased thanks guys for your suggestions and help on moving this seized crankcase stud. My cousin (who just got a 1000cc Suzuki V Strom, after selling his Aprillia 1000 phoned me about his new bike ) and I told him about the seized stud. He had some MAP gas and it did the trick.

 

Hooray!

 

Good job!!