Politics - I apologize

I'm an Australian and daily I check the news to see if America has finished with its craziness.
But...
I hope you guys get through the stupidity and return to a coherent and respected part of the global community.
Good luck.

 

Anxiety.

In Australia it is compulsory to vote.
In other words, you get a fine if you dont.
so...
That means, all the politician has to do is not piss off the voter and he is back in.
From a working class point of view (since going to the polling place is a pain in the backside), at any rate.

Damn...
I never thought I'd be saying that I was happy with our system but sheesh... electoral college votes... what the hell?
Crazyiness ensues.

Good luck again America!

 

We are a Republic. Electoral College is meant it insure that each state is important in the final outcome. Our problem is not the Electoral College. It is that each state can decide how voting is done in the state, and there is often no requirement for positive identification. Some folks figure out how to vote in two or more states, dead folks have been known to vote, and a lot of folks just don't vote. It would seem that a national voting policy, a data base of voter id's, positive voter id at the polls, and early in-person voting at would go a long ways toward cleaning up our system.

 

The electoral college was a compromise given the vastness of the US territory and slow communication of voting results. Whether or not it still serves its purpose largely depends on whether you find it advantageous politically.

I’d say there’s something wrong when the majority of American citizens votes for a president and she/he doesn’t win. Consistently. Minority rule can be even more dangerous than majority rule.

The US constitution is the reason why states control their own election laws. So it’s hard to be a purist then pick and choose which parts you agree with. I’d say the move from a largely agrarian society to industrialization and more intense urbanization should be considered when deciding election rules. But hey, only the rules that serve ones interests.

Furthermore, the electoral college could have saved us from our current president, who’s inability to lead has likely led to 200,000+ American deaths just this year. If it can’t protect us from mob rule that empowers a tyrant who throws out all political norms and can’t handle a peaceful transition of power when losing an election, then what purpose can it serve?

There is no wide spread voter fraud, despite what Rudy Juliani says behind the loading docks of a lawn care business between the adult book store and crematorium (look up Four Season Total Lawn). Look at the election lawsuits. Under penalty of perjury, most are thrown out by the judges for having absolutely no evidence. The lawyers pursuing these voter fraud cases will get disbarred if they lie, unlike the people in front of a camera.

Why is it that elections can only be trusted if your choice wins? Why is it so hard to believe that most of America doesn’t agree with you? Part of being an American is the acceptance that there are diverse ideas across the country, and deal with that peacefully.

 

I've heard arguments against going with the popular vote being that people in cities tend to have a group mentality (whatever that means). I think people who live close to each other tend to figure out how to get along and look out for one another. I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

CGP Grey’s take in the “states’s protections” in the electoral college.

 

close this before it goes any farther

 

Actually the Electoral College prevents the "rule by minority". Both in 2016 and again in 2020 the "popular vote margin" is basically due to the 3 or 4 major cities (NY, LA, Chicago), while the geographic (land area) popularity by candidate/philosophy is so crazily skewed to the "red" team that it boggles the mind........and as dkavanaugh points out, the whole "local" rule/mentality/philosophy is what was somewhat paramount when drafting the AoC and the Constitution ("C"), and for good reasons (recall that the "confederation" of states and then the constitution they adopted were done by INDEPENDENT entities (states) who wanted to retain as much of that, and thus wrote into the C this formula (among many other things) for maintaining independence. The Federal govt. was supposed to be small, for specific purposes, and all powers NOT SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED (listed) TO THE FEDERAL GOVT. was to remain with the states. Note that the RESTRICTIONS are fully and wholly on the FEDERAL guv, not the states.

This is addressed well in the CGP Grey video, but it misses (or just barely touches on) the real point: The purposes of the Constitution, etc. is to LIMIT to power of the Federal Government and prevent it from becoming a monolithic beast (such as the King of England during that era), and it does so by very specific and intentional steps, such as creating 3 co-equal branches of government (there's also the somewhat un-mentioned "4th branch", which is the people of the country, but that's a topic for another time).

Of course, for a variety of reasons----as so happens in history----things get turned upside-down over time and "original intents" get mis-understood, whitewashed, overturned, etc.

Pretending that voter fraud doesn't happen is....umm, what's the right word....naive? It happens everywhere, all the time, in every country, and the more "sophisticated" the systems (and the bigger the stakes involved), the more and greater (and creative) methods of fraud/cheating/stealing there is (think of NASCAR). It was there in 1960 (Kennedy), it was there is 2000 (Bush), it's been there ever since and will there be until honest people take charge and stop this crap. Hell, I have to present a passport or my BIRTH CERIFICATE to renew my driver's license (I've been licensed for close to 40 years in the same state), but my mail-in ballots require no verification at all. P.S. I received 2 of them in the mail.


Here, fraud in real-time:



The entire video above is unbelievably interesting---some portions are software-geek-technical---but the segment from about 31:00 to 38:00 is jaw dropping.


Four Seasons Landscaping....and their loading docks:

https://twitter.com/anonpatriotq/status/1325228477449113601

Key quote: Still think we don’t have it all?

Enjoy.

 

I wish, but the boss has spoken. As long as it dosen't spill out into other sections of the site political discussions are allowed.
It's a shame really. At some point this will cause this site to turn into what every-other site ends up becoming; a devisive pile of poo.

 

Why does having adult conversations about important issues have to turn into a pile of poo? Are people not to be trusted to have/express differing opinions?

 

FWIW, there are no studies from any source (regardless of political viewpoints) that have found voter fraud (whether intentional (rare) or accidental (less rare) to influence the outcome of any election.

MODERATOR HAT OFF:

Please don't carry this over to the other areas of the forum. There are literally MILLIONS of internet forums where political discussions are the norm, and the focus. Please let this webiste (aside from the Hangout Lounge, or some future sub forum) be a refuge for motorcyclists to talk about motorcycles, and enjoy that commonality.
We all worked hard to build this community. Please refrain from working to tear it apart, even if by accident.

 

Because far too many adults have a fixed-mindset, and discussions tend to devolve into shouting matches. Differing opinions are expected, but open minds are a rarity.

 

I may quote you with that again at some point @k-moe

Re the politics dicussion, if nothing else it enlightens us non Americans.

 

States can, and have for a very long tiime ensured that only bana fide votes are counted. Voter fraud is quite literally a non-issue in the U.S., excepting for some who think that even members of their own party are willing to allow invalid votes to be counted.

 

So if there’s majority of people living in sprawling urban and sub-urban space that’s a “minority,” but if you’re a minority spread out amongst empty space that’s a majority? And the point of the CGPGrey video is that the electoral college doesn’t protect small states from that. You could win with only the largest states and ignore the small ones.

chacal answer me this, you got two ballots, did you vote twice? Do you know anyone that did (and report them to federal authorities)? There is no evidence of wide spread voter fraud, no matter what people “think” or “feel” happens. You need evidence, or it’s just conspiracy.

And the four season? That’s some conspiracy? Trump’s campaign booked the event there, they just won’t admit that they likely made a mistake thinking it was the hotel. Who cares who they contribute to politically? That’s not illegal.

I think it’s great that our members from other countries weigh in on our political process. It helps to get some outside perspective. When most of them are worried and concerned for us, I think it’s important to listen.

We had a COVID discussion that got closed down on the general forum as well (and chacal got all of his last words in as a moderator). Some of us were trying to get out relevant information to stop its spread. Others were repeating conspiracy theories. Look where we are now.

 

I only looked at that section - Commonly referred to as the Hammer and Scorecard - is it true, well it appears not.

Lets just say it was disputed by:

Christopher C. Krebs is the first and current Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency in the United States Department of Homeland Security, serving since November 2018.

You will see his name in the below link warning of such claims and he can also be found on Twitter:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hammer-scorecard-vote-counts/

Well actually it requires a signature verification, and the biggest risk is it will be kicked out and not counted as signatures change over the years. Georgia does offer "curing" if it is rejected, but the time frame can be short and may not help.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/katiej...s-but-the-science-is-dubious/?sh=743c9fc07680

Georgia also offers (like here in Florida) online status of the absentee ballot. If it is not marked accepted you can go to the precinct and vote. If there is any doubt by the election official at the precinct a provisional ballot can be filled out.

https://www.acluga.org/en/check-your-absentee-ballot-status

It's a really good system here in Florida, and it appears Georgia is not far behind. The biggest issue in some of the other swing states is when could they start counting absentee ballots. In Florida it is 22 day before the election, which prevents delay as absentee ballot canvassing and scanning just takes time - oh and Florida verifies signatures just like Georgia. In Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin the legislatures all opted out of counting the absentee ballots early. I don't know if they have a good reason to do this but it was widely predicted to expect Trump would lead early by large margins as he was very persuasive in getting out the vote and suggesting mail in ballots could not be trusted. Conversely, the Democratic party encouraged absentee ballot voting. Other swing states like Florida, Ohio, and North Carolina that allow early canvassing of the absentee ballots Biden took a substantial lead early as all the absentee ballots were first in line having already been counted, but were eventually overcome with what was an amazing get out and vote campaign by Trump - excepting they might be called superspreader events. Georgia, which was considered a swing state this election cycle does signature verification of absentee ballots on receipt, but does not allow scanning until election day. Consequently, this was another state where Trump had a big lead that was eventually overcome.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elect...ballot-processing-and-counting-can-begin.aspx

 

Well, for anyone who doesn't believe that cheating and fraud are not merely commonplace, but endemic (in this country and many others), I don't know how to help you. Let's see, there's all of the big banks (worldwide), almost all the major automakers, again worldwide, the real estate industries, the courts, the police, the military, the medical industry, and the list goes on. But hey, it's a free country and you can choose to ignore what goes on around the world (here included); that's a profound statement, but not one that I would rush forward as my claim to fame.

ManBot, I explained quite clearly in the "COVID" thread that I was typing out my reply when the thread became locked (unknown to me) ....that's how I "got all of his last words in". But they were great last words, if I say so myself! We can re-explore that issue at some other time, if you wish, but the data will continue to show what it has always shown, no matter how many times it is denied.

In regards to the "majority of people" argument, it's a non-starter for those who actually understand the Constitution, why it was written, and what it was intended to accomplish andm perhaps more importantly, what it was intended to prevent. I referenced the major points in regards to those issue previously, so there's no need to go over them again; suffice it to say that this system has worked fairly well for quite some time, and if using a national "popular vote" is an improvement, then expect political parties/politicians to modify their strategies and activities to address those "new rules of engagement" just as they do with the current system (i.e. focus on high-electoral-vote states primarily). It's a non-winning strategy, short-sighted, and CPGrey even explicitly states (towards the end) that the real issue is whether a person/group wants power to reside "above, at the Federal level" or "below, at the state level". But remember, kids, the Federal government is a specific and unique CREATION of the states........not the other way around.

No, I did not vote via mail-in ballot, and P.S.S. my lawn service (who is not affiliated with Four Seasons Landscaping) owner got 3 ballots. But go ahead and keep telling yourself that election fraud isn't pervasive, it might----maybe----help continue to cover up the elephants in the room, and will certainly help untold millions sleep better at night, without the need for Ambien or other pharmaceuticals......so, denial, in this case, is a good thing.

Hey , I just remembered, didn't Stacey Abrams (who still seems to believe that she is the Governor) say that voter/election fraud is a serious, unaddressed problem in Georgia? Why yes, yes she did! So which is it?

Snopes: should do an analysis of themselves. I would never trust a single word that a person like that says about anything, but that's just me.....if they said the sky was blue or the moon is white I'd have to re-evaluate everything that I see with my own eyes.

Sure, they're just bumbling fools that can't tell the difference between the words "Landscaper" and "Hotel"! Curious people the world over might dig a little deeper to see whether it was a "mistake" or something more meaningful. Time will tell! Best not count your chickens (nor your rakes, mowers, weed whackers, etc.) before they hatch.

 

No, it is no different than going in to vote, walking out and then trying to get in line again. The election official would say sorry, but you already voted. If you send in two ballots the first will be counted and your voter ID will be marked "voted." If you send in the second one not only are you risking being arrested for voter fraud but it's not going to be counted because you already voted. I don't know about you but I certainly am not going to risk committing a felony to elect some scumbag politician - just saying most of them are.

 

Well guys, sometimes I get the impression that either you or I are living in an alternate reality, because you guys believe that the messy real world is kind of like a well-tuned Yamaha engine, where everything is precise, orderly, engineered to a level of precision just this side of perfection, and "rules" are followed to a "T", so that when this rod goes up that one goes down and precisely at this instant this valve opens while that one closes and the vacuum pistons rise just exactly this much when the needle on the gauge says 15 Hg/in. The world that I live in doesn't work that way, not even close. Trust, except for the misplaced variety, barely exists at almost all levels, and this type of condition starts from the top down, and then like a wet blanket, smothers everything. Especially anything involving: a) money, or b) politics, and c) really, those two choices are sort of redundant, because they both are just different aspects of that thing called "power", and power doesn't respect truth, justice, honesty, or any other ideal, no matter how strongly nor how many times Hollywood pretends that it does.

Let me just conclude with this thought: if you set up a system (any type of system) that, by design or ignorance or any combo thereof, allows fraud to occur, then it will. This is Sociology 101. And if it then occurs, and nothing serious is done to expose and/or prevent it, it will continue to occur, and will finally devolve to the point where fraud and corruption is the common state of affairs, and honesty is just seen as a rare and curious relic of some long-forgotten, idyllic past, something that the History Channel will "explore" on shows between Ancient Aliens and Ice-Road-Truckers programming.

 

Thanks for that point Rooster53, “getting extra ballots” doesn’t prove voter fraud. Neither does registering your dog. Neither being registered in two different counties or states. People move, rolls aren’t perfect, but if you only vote once, no fraud. Claims of fraud need proof. Trying to vote twice should be caught. I wouldn’t recommend trying it.

As for the four seasons, yes, the trump campaign are a bunch of bumbling fools. That’s the point. Occam’s razor, simplest explanation is most likely.

 

The Sun rises in the east and sets in the west; ergo, the sun rotates around the Earth. Easy-peezy!

 

I ride or have ridden Suzuki’s, bmw, triumphs, Harleys, bicycles, hybrids, pickup trucks, etc. I don’t think there is a magical conspiracy that makes Yamaha the only transportation that runs well and everything else doesn’t even run and anyone who argues for them is fake news. There are good and bad, faults and utility.

I don’t doubt that your media comes from a very different source and random YouTube deep dives. We’ve all been there. But no, I don’t believe the world is one giant Da Vinci code conspiracy. It’s complicated. But denying the results is denying all of the people who legally voted for the other guy. My vote matters too, and got counted (I dropped off a mail-in in a drop box after a personal COVID scare). Yours did too (hopefully you can check). That’s what matters.

 

Right again. Here's Joe Biden's selection for his Chief of Staff, agreeing that elections are rigged:

https://twitter.com/PurpleBaptist/status/1326708442598420481

Whoops.....


My reference to Yamaha engines was simply as analogy, I have nothing bad to say about many other makes and models.

I don't do "random YouTube" deep-dives, but I suppose Occam's Razor would lead you to believe that, too? You Tube (and twatter, facebook, insta-idiot, etc.) are, to me, all birds of the same feather, and all serve the same functional purpose: the dissemination of information, same as telephone, telegraph, television, smoke signals, liturgical hymms, magical incantations, etc. Sometimes that information is useful, or trivial; well-grounded, or fanciful; provide clarity, or acts as a veil. And I have no doubt as to the reality that people (mostly people, but who knows.....) voted for Candidate A or Candidate B or the Other Guy. Your vote matters, I certainly wouldn't claim otherwise (why would I?), and if it was a legal vote then it should count (and be counted).

It's just the ones that don't fit into that nice neat box that might be of a concern, not just to you and me, but perhaps to everyone.

 

Gosh politics again, started by an Aussie. Why not change the rules so that whoever gets the most votes overall is the winner, like all / most other situations where voting occurs. Four seasons landscaping is very thick icing on the cake.

 

+1
and dare I say... I'd buy that for a dollar (AUD of course)

 

Heh, him saying it is proof that he said it. but anyway. There has been no credible proof of voter fraud on a scale that would affect this election and if there is, you can be sure it'll be in the courts because that's what people are busy doing, filling law suits about election fraud.
A friend and former co-worker who I respect posted this today and it's entertaining and informative, enjoy.
CONSTANTLY WRONG: The Case Against Conspiracy Theories

Friends, don't let friends go down rabbit holes.

 

I wish I didn't watch the whole video but... I did.
I get your point!
+1

 

If fraud had occured then Mitch McConell would not have been allowed to win his reelection bid. At the very least the race would have been much closer.

 

NH has aressted a few double voters from past elections recently.
I am registered in 3 states because I was never take off the rolls.

I think it is plasuable that a certain party that called for its voters to go to the polls may have been planning this all along with a few hard core members going out to do some fraudent voting to bolster the claim . just as plasuably as what is being claimed now.
which was claimed in the last election by the winner. the long game.

fade back to 1960 when Nixon lost his presidental bid. clamed Joe stuffed the ballot boxes to get his son elected.
but he took the high road and conceeded the race so as not to put the country he loved through the bullsh#t of contesting the election. Very nobel of him.

someome needs to take a lesson from him.


i'm done

 

our fore fathers covered that in the 10 amendment.

 

And if people could only read past the headline you would see Ron Klain is replying to the advantage of incumbents.

"A new Rasmussen poll finds that 68 percent of Americans think elections are rigged in favor of incumbents. And they're basically right."

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898365/68-of-americans-think-elections-are-rigged

Actually a pretty good article that also addresses the incumbents advantage because of gerrymandering, something we should make illegal here as they did in Canada.

Well, don't think that I, k-moe, or others don't suspect that fraud occurs during the elections, however at least up to this point we have been pretty much reassured that the level of fraud in national elections is no where near the level to affect the outcome. The closest exception to date was exposed in North Carolina, which is the system at work.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nc-election-fraud-charge-20190227-story.html

We have come a long way. Take Georgia for example, it wouldn't be that long ago that there was electronic voting with no paper trail. Georgia is going to do a hand recount, and history suggests it will only change the outcome by a few hundred votes at best. We will just need a little patience to let the process work out, however with the latest results in Arizona and Nevada that alone is enough for a Biden victory. Trump should go ahead and concede as it is what is best for the country, and as Biden actually said his legacy will be affected by this decision.

 

Voter fraud happens in every election. We are told beforehand every time that it doesn't but then we find it afterwards. Unfortunately people are tuned out by then and the amount may only be enough to sway some small local elections (like 242-246 for example). Even in the past there have been votes by dead people and from out of state people who are still on the roles. The difference this election is the widespread mail in voting which absolutely lends itself to fraud. Even in my home state of NY we are not required to show ID at the pols. Imagine my surprise this time when my signature was recorded on a tablet. It was so bad an big X would have been more legible. Even if it had been compared to my existing signature in the book, it would now have matched. How on earth could I vote like that when I could be anybody. The system has been broken and is now even more broken. Given that there has been fraud every election prior to this one, when it was vastly harder to fraudulently vote, I would have to say that it is probably exponentially worse this election, especially given the stake. It is now to be seen how bad or good it is by the evidence found by investigations.

 

So not a single instance of actual voter fraud but you’re convinced it’s widespread and exponential? Exponential is the spread of COVID, voter fraud is minor to the point of being inconsequential on a state or National scale (the kind Trump/Giuliani is claiming). Usually it’s people dumb enough to think they can get away with it, but they get caught. And surprise, they vote Republican too.

Dead people on rolls don’t vote. Usually suspicions of dead voters are either 1, people with the same or similar names, 2 someone who died after voting (and whether a mail in ballot counts of a voter does after mailing but before the election depends on the state)

 

There was almost 70% turnout for the presidential election, only made possible by loads of early in-person voting, and loads of mail in or absentee ballots. If there was no pandemic and only the regular old voting methods, why, there would probably still be people waiting in line... or they probably just might not have voted. Its almost like the system is rigged...... to discourage people from voting. So lets just disenfranchise all that turnout, make sure they don't bother voting again because of all that fraud! because of all that fraud, their votes don't even matter. Normally, after an election there is a winner who takes office, and a loser who leaves office, but not this time, because of all that fraud. We will never know what the will of the voters is, because of the fraud.

If only we had some sort of actual evidence of all that fraud.

 

Well, I was careful to note I don't believe anything of the sort, but probably would be worse. I do note that there has always been fraud and the potential for rampant voter fraud is now high, considering the methods of voting this time. Investigations need to be done to find if there is any or none. Recounts need to be done to make sure the glitching machines were not a problem. Checks to see if illegal ballets were counted with no signatures, same signatures, late arrivals, late postmarks, no postmarks, etc. Such is the problems with mail in voting. Remember, most elections also have investigations and sometimes recounts. It is not unique to this election.

 

But there isn’t a losing candidate screaming VOTER FRAUD! after all of those other elections that show minimal fraud.

Sure investigate if you like, make voting more secure, as long as it’s not just to disenfranchise voters. But you only have your feelings to go on right now that there is rampant voter fraud, and that’s not enough to keep the loser from conceding. My feeling is that more people voted, they voted against Trump, and he lost. Simple as that

 

How about the recounts that Hillery had in a couple of states? How about Al Gore and Florida? Not necessarily fraud but problems. The fraud happens all the time but not enough to sway a presidential election. The issue this time is mass mail in ballots, postmark deadlines, arrival deadlines, etc. All can contribute to large amounts of wrong counts. Nobody complained before because the situation was vastly different. My feelings have nothing to do with the logic of the situation.

 

2000 the recount was crucial to the election and was decided by 500 votes. That is the purpose of the recount.

For 2016, what date did Hillary concede? What date did the incumbent invite the elected president to the White House?

 

One plus at this point, is the toad isn't taking up all the headlines with rantings.
So...
It's a good day to be alive.

Too bad for the nearly quarter of a million Americans who have died...
Because you know, death sucks for anyone who has lost their 'sweetest friend'

now I'm seriously depressed.
Where's my whisky.

 

One thing you can say about this pandemic - the correct path for least deaths is still not defined, who's to say that locking down and not doing routine treatments doesn't cost more lives? Maybe it just moves the demographic around?

 

My wife has a master in public health and is a nurse who's took an infectious disease course last winter (good timing, huh?). The stuff that the CDC and Fauci are saying works. Washing hands, wearing masks, social distancing. Being outdoors is better than indoors since this stuff can hang in the air for a long time. As we got more lax and temps dropped, we had more people gathering and in confined spaces, spread was going to happen.
Please don't tell me that guidance was different last spring. Science evolves as information changes. New evidence should help us by teaching us and we should adjust our thinking accordingly.

peace and stay safe everyone!

 

Just to add a little clarity since this discussion is in part a sharing of the USA and our democracy with our out of country friends.

An ID in New York is required when registering

https://vote.nyc/page/voter-id

After that, your name is added to the precinct poll book so it's not like just any John Doe can just walk in and vote without an ID. Your name has to be in the poll book and you must sign (subject to penalty I suspect) if you are committing voter fraud. The signature is supposed to be verified or physical characteristics. I get what your saying if you signed on an electronic pad, as signatures do get really sloppy.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-verification-without-id-documents.aspx

As noted in the above link there are quite of few states not requiring picture ID at the polling locations. It is a fine line between voter suppression and ensuring only legal votes are cast.

Well some statistics on just how bad it has been to date, of coarse we know that the sources can be an issue, but here are two; The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank, and the Brennan Center is a liberal / progressive organization. Given the numbers presented, I would say are system has not been broken but is actually very good - perfection is likely not obtainable.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

Heritage is not very good at linking sources and admits totals may not be a full list. That said, they report four for the entire state of New York in 2016 and 1298 USA cases overall covering all the way back to 1980 - more years than most of our XJ's

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites.../Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

An excerpt "The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent" To do the math at worst case that is 175 cases of voter fraud in Pennsylvania with approximately 7 million voters

As to exponentially worse the Georgia audit could be revealing, we will just have to wait and see.

She conceded on Nov. 9th and did not request any recounts. The 3rd party candidate Jill Stein requested recounts in PA, MI, and WI. She was granted a recount in only WI, but even that was mostly a recalculation of the math and not a hand recount as was requested. Now not much doubt Hillary supporters and campaign staff placed some hope in that, but they had already considered it hopeless as they needed to turn 3 states - PA, MI, and WI.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...566/jill-stein-presidential-recount-explained

Yea, how about Gore - a true example of Murphy's Law in that smart people never thought with nearly 6 million votes the separation could only be 537 votes in the end. The sad issue from Gore's perspective is when the butterfly ballot (and other unscrupulous voting methods) is evaluated there is little doubt that Al Gore won the votes cast in the state of Florida, but he lost the votes counted. The good news from our perspective is that it was an awakening and indicated the need to improve the voting systems for both ease of voting and accountability.



.

 

No it doesn't; in fact, it has exactly the opposite effect:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=240661

The only thing they are saying which is true is: wash your hands with soap and water, and do it somewhat regularly and religiously. Full stop. But there's no money to be made, no panic to be spread via that advice, so here we are.

So are you saying that maybe "they" should start practicing it?........you know, looking at the data, reviewing the historical knowledge, "putting 2 + 2 together" to gain understanding from raw data, since raw data by itself is meaningless, i.e. the sun rises in the east and sets in the west....you can make a gorgillion of those observation without a single variance and yet still get the underlying mechanism absolutely wrong, especially if money and power are at stake; heck, you can even threaten imprisonment and death to actual scientists who refuse to go along with the false theories. But it's funny, you know: all those threats and re-assurances do absolutely zilch to change reality......

This would be a great thing, especially if they had started doing it from the get-go, instead of slow-walking the analysis of "new evidence" and adjusting their "thinking" (perhaps that's a joke?) accordingly.



Re: "voter fraud"...........perhaps a clarification of definitions is in order. The word "voter" fraud puts the onus ("blame") on individual people, on the "average Jane or Joe" doing something wrong or illegal, and I don't think that is the what is being discussed.....certainly that happens in some cases, but it is probably the exception rather than the norm, and is a small (almost infintesimal) part of the issue. I mentioned previous that fraud is both systemic and endemic in almost all aspects of modern----and in reviewing written history---thru large ancient societies, too. In all fields. Everywhere. From the top down, from the centers of political/governmental powers all the way down to individual, inter-personal relationships and activities. Endemic. Systemic. In every field that you care to analyze or review, and surprise, surprise.....the more money or power involved.....the more fraud there is, and the greater the efforts to ignore it, disguise it, or cover it up. Human beings are competitive, goal-seeking, and many of them are "win at any cost" type of creatures, and do not come anywhere close to the mythologized "I cannot tell a lie; I chopped down the cherry tree" type of character that is portrayed in popular culture. Just because you are popular, or on TV, or are wealthy, etc. doesn't mean that you are honest....there is no "halo" effect between any of those attributes. In other words, ACTIONS speak louder than words.

Now, I realize that most people "know" or "understand" the above to be true, but applying it when passions are running high (when instead, logic, reason, and yes----rational analysis and science should predominate) is a tough row to hoe. It's akin to much of the advice given on these very forums when a member has a problems with their bike; the user is confused, frustrated, pissed, etc. and that is when the cold, calculating, experienced analysts steps in to offer dispassionate (un-emotional) guidance: have you checked the valve clearances? Have you made sure that the pilot circuits are clear? Have you performed a vacuum synch....and, it helps if you have a real understanding of what a "synch" really means, and don't let incorrect references ("carb" synch versus "engine" synch) guide you down the wrong path.

One of the things that makes this forum so valuable (and held in such high regard by its members) is that no one is trying to "snowjob" or trick/fool/deceive anyone else. Certainly, there are occasions when "bad advice" is given, but that is typically due to error or inexperience or a mis-understanding. There is no endemic, systemic attempt to deceive.

The Georgia re-count is a Chinese fire drill type of event; it will "prove" nothing. You have no idea just how corrupt the state of Georgia is in its politics. And as best that I can tell, it's one of the "cleaner" big cities in the country in that regard.


Einstein.....who ushered in the great age of the END of science (but thru no fault or intent of his own).....was at least an honest man.....and that counts for more (in my book) than popularity, intellect, brilliance or status. For even in regards to his own work.....which showered him with accolades, fame, and fortune......he quickly pointed out that no amount of experimental results could ever prove his theories to be right, and to the contrary, all it would take is one single experiment to prove his theories wrong.

Perhaps that is a good maxim ("not" the XJ kind) to keep in mind.

 

And here comes the wall of text that makes a whole lot of claims with no evidence. That returns us to the FACT of no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Only thing anyone can come up with is few unrelated cases by individuals. Then “extrapolate exponentially.”

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan. If you’ve got it, I suggest you provide it to Giuliani so he can stop making a fool of himself and the whole Trump campaign.

And for your COVID-19 link to another wall of text, I would trust the world’s premier infectious disease expert a lot more than Karl Denninger, an American technology businessman, finance blogger, and political activist, sometimes referred to as a founding member[1] of the Tea Party movement. Just like I’d trust Fauci over anyone on this site (unless Fauci works on XJs).

 

Well, the US Code is a wall of text, as is the Constitution, the USP, and I'll bet most other important documents fall under that observation. "Walls of text" seems to be used in an somewhat inappropriate manner in this context, and I'm not sure that I agree with that characterization fully.

And what exactly is "extraordinary" about the claim that election fraud/interference/etc. exists? Didn't the last 4 years of conflict in this country more or less revolve around that very premise? Didn't Elizabeth Warren, Amy Kloubachar, and others (2 of the 3 being senators and presidential candidates) complain about the issues with voting machines (actually, their software and security procedures) as recently as 2019? Why yes, yes they did:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...minion-voting-machines-prior-to-2020-election


Extraordinary evidence, laid bear (no text, video this time):




No one has claimed Karl Denninger to be a premier infectious disease expert, but, perhaps you would like to refute some of the claims made----you know, the MESSAGE(S) in that wall of text----rather than the messenger? And for good measure, can you explain the Elon Musk results, and I'd also be interested to learn why Terry Mullis (the inventor of the PCR process) might also be someone who should not be trusted:

 

I'm immediately suspect of what's happening in that video "if you believe in HIV". I didn't watch the 1st video. The second seemed to only address a bit about how the PCR process could produce results that could be misinterpreted. That says zero about how it's being used for detecting COVID-19 and even what viral load is sufficient to worry about in an individual.

I think there's a difference between paranoia and scepticism. Be the later, always, not the former.

 

First of all I have to agree with ManBot13 below, why would anyone buy this theory from someone who is totally non medical. I bet if we put you in a rocket and do a moonshot you wouldn't let him calculate speed and angle of return.

And he has so much class, I am not certain this is his verbiage that can be found on the market ticker webpage but someone is sure lacking character - a screenshot so no it's not edited:



At the very beginning he speaks of pre-existing immunity with no reference. That's a non starter

He pretends 4 rapid antigen test on Elon Musk is somehow a scientific study, which is total garbage. And then he is not even honest about it and he implies in the article the PCR test was the flawed source of testing. Musk did receive a PCR test afterwards, the outcome unknown at this time.

He states a 10% error rate with a 10% positivity means errors of 0 to 20 % - isn't that funny math

And this is just a quick read, the article is trash as far as I can tell. Oh, and on serology testing this is exactly where Birx and Fauci wanted to go, and there were all sorts of early tests that proved to be highly unreliable. For some reason Denninger thinks we abandoned this "gold standard" testing.

Well it will help rule out the "Hammer Scorecard" you referenced in your earlier post where the claim is computer software is stealing votes from one candidate and giving them to the other. My mistake on not mentioning signatures when I made the statement as there will not be a re-verification of signatures on the absentee ballots. However, I haven't heard any complaints coming out of Georgia that canvassing those ballots wasn't done in a bipartisan fashion.

 

Well, of course that video was from a long time ago (date unknown, but you can tell from the quality of the video), when there was a lot of dispute of the cause of HIV (which, to some extent, still exists today). PCR is akin to a manufacturing process, not a diagnostic tool, and has been noted in many places, by many people:

"The technology relies on amplifying results many times over. If they are amplified less than about 35 times, no-one will test positive. If they are amplified 60 times, everyone will test positive. "

Thus PCR testing AS A DISEASE CONFIRMATION PROCESS is sort of "dial a result" method, where the results can bee cranked up, or toned down, with only minor (and for the most part un-disclosed "dial settings"....reminding me of the old intro to the TV show "The Outer Limits":

"Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits."

Very true!