Stuck individual ball bearings in between tree post and steering shaft

Hi anyone at XJ

I am attempting to replace top and bottom steering head bearings, and when removing cap nut at top, exposing old type loose ball bearings, two fell down the shaft and lodged in the recess, or space between the tree post and the inside of the steering barrel? (The handlebars, key shaft, and headlamp/speedo assembly are all hanging down in front of the shaft, removed wheel and forks.)
I cannot draw the tree out from the bottom of the shaft, because the ball bearings are trapped in there.
Tried hooking with wire, and tried to get a magnet on them, (magnet diameter is too big to reach down through small gap) but would need another set of hands to hold the treel 'level', so the tension is off the trapped bearings to remove them?
Sorry about the quality of the photo, but down at the bottom of that shaft, sit two individual ball bearings!
I can't just draw the tree out, from the bottom because my main wiring loom, going into the headlamp, and extending from there under the front of the tank, is in the way.
Has anyone any idea how I can get the bearings out to remove the tree, without having to dismantle all the loom out of the headlamp, or from underneath the tank on top of the frame, please?

Kind regards.

 

Do you have enough space to rig up a narrow metal or plastic tube attached to a vacuum cleaner. You would need a cork you could drill a hole in for the tube and would fit the tube on the machine. Might work if vacuum is strong enough. Or do you have a compressor that could be set to vacuum them out?

Or can you use a powerful magnet outside on the triple tree tube and move the ball bearings up that way. If it works you might be able to get them out.

This is better. Sealey Ultra-Slim Magnetic Pick-up tool - Flexible Strong Lifts 100g - 4mm wide magnet, 400mm long reach. This might be the answer if you have the clearance?

https://www.toolden.co.uk/p/sealey-...V3LcLFajG035vRvuSrpLVIMhlF_b031RoCOYAQAvD_BwE

Harbor Freight might have one?

 

My mistake you are from the UK.

 

I'm attempting to replace top and bottom old-fashioned steering bearings, with tapered ones.
When dismantling top two singular ball bearings fell down inside the shaft.
They've settled right at the bottom, on top of the bottom cup, between the tree bottom and the inside of the shaft.
I cannot withdraw the tree. The bearings have stuck tight and all I can do is waggle it side to side. Tried getting long wire with hook on but no luck, cant get a magnet down there....sprayed lubricant.......it's very difficult to engage from the bottom of the shaft because there's so little room to play with.
I'm out of ideas, and until I can get this resolved, I've got no transport.

Has anybody, PLEASE got any ideas on how I can free this tree, from past experience?

Kind regards,

Dale Grantham

 

Thanks Franz
Something to think about. I haven't got the compressor, but I could rig something up with a vaccum cleaner, only would it be enough to shift them.? I managed to get a thick wire with a hook fashioned on the end underneath one of them (they are both sitting next to each other with a 1mm gap between), but as I attempted to lift, it just bent the wire hook, it wouldn't move! (but that was without having another pair of hands holding the post level from underneath, taking the tension off?)
That Sealey pick up tool looks a good option, if I can get it down to the top of the ball bearings (I think there is only 3-5mm gap at most, at that point?)
My brother is coming over tomorrow, so will have more physical help then.
Ive just posted an update with more photos, but I don't think it helps any?

Kind regards Franz, and Thank You for your attention!

 

It's a tricky one when you have very little space to work with. I don't think the vacuum cleaner will work but any idea is worth a try.

 

Do you have any magnetic screwdriver's? You could try that if it's small enough or grind it a bit.

 

Are you replacing with new style bearings? If so, it seems like if you get the old races knocked out of there the bearings would drop out on their own.

 

OK, I get it now, kind of. The two ball bearings that fell are somehow preventing the triple tree from coming out, correct??

I'm having a hard time visualizing how a couple bearings in there would prevent the tree from being removed.

How much good old brute force have you tried? If you bash on it downward with a BFH (big f'n hammer) then it might bring the lower races with it, but who cares since you are replacing them anyway.

 

^^^that^^^^

Even if you are retaining the ball-bearing system, it's the races that wear out and cause problems. They should be driven out and replaced, eithe by new races for the balls, or with tapered bearings.

 

this is hard for me to picture, but if your loose in the steering stem and just need to drop the tree there should be enough room to do so. only think i could is if you have a ball on each side left/right holding it in. if you could maneuver the balls so they are next to each other on one side, should there be enough room to pull the trees through? or tip the tree enough in the tube to let them fall out?

I have replaced mine with tapered roller and again i really cant picture what you are saying. as others have said if you havent yet knock the race out the bottom, nothing to be stuck on then right??

 

Hi Vash

The singular (x2) ball bearings fell off the upper cup and inside the steering sleeve/column between the tree and the inside of the column. They sit next to each other with about 1mm gap between them. Situated down at the base of the column, and above the lower cup of the tree, (at 6 o'clock, as you look from above) which protrudes about 4-5cm out the bottom of the column? They have worked themselves down to that point, and there is some movement left-right-left, but hardly any movement forwards and backwards of the tree, because they are filling any space movement down there?
Do I have to try and remove the bottom cup/sleeve (I am replacing old style cup and ball, with tapered head race bearings)? before I can remove the tree? (earlier thread) Just fashioned an hook tool (pictured), to try and get the acquired access, and any pull- stress I need to put on the ball bearings to remove them upwards.

Regards.

 

Sorted it.
After an abortive attempt with a fashioned, long handled pick, which hardly budged them until the extension of the pick came off (lol!), decided to heat the area where the guilty pair were situated, and with a few good bangs on top of the tree with a lump hammer, it gradually came out. There were two drag styrations in the side of the tree neck, from the bearings about 4cm long, but nothing serious. The bearings had been sitting almost perfectly fitted, on the top of the bottom cup cover interned lip, rammed in between the tree neck, and the inside of the column sleeve, as though they were meant to be in there, they fitted that well. That is why they were so hard to budge.
Removed old cups and covers, and replaced with taper bearings.
Got to reconnect the wiring in the headlamp tomorrow - please with me luck!

Thank You all for your help!

 

Wow. Good to hear you got it sorted out.

So the new bearing must have fit OK on the tree even with some damage from those ball bearings??

The good news is no more ball bearings in the steering head. If you manage to wear out this set it will be much easier the second time.

 

Another issue now - the indicator wiring.
Got everything working, after connecting the wiring loom back inside the headlamp shell, except the two front indicators.
Tried loads of combinations, and only one which made left indicator flash, but not the one I'd selected - lol!
Tried combination of that to see if right one would flash, but no go.
Uploaded a load of pics (sorry about the state of the wiring!), pics with me holding the respective left and right wires directly from the indicator, and some with the currently 'redundant' sockets, which I've tried combinations of ++, but no joy.
Anyone got the experience to guide me how to wire them up correctly (tried going by Haynes diagram, but when I connect to the 'dual blacks' nothing happens) so's I can get back on to the road again please?

Kind regards