Electrical Problem Suspect Voltage Regulator

Hi Guys

My 82 XJ650 left me stranded in a parking lot the other day.
On literally the hottest day on record in 70+ years ......
42 degree C (110f for the American folks out there) We don't get that temp much in Canada

Anyways Bike was running fine. Stopped at a store on my way home. When I came out I went to start the bike and it make a noise (briefly) and just cut out. All the lights on the machine dimmed and I couldn't get it started even with a push. It seems like I lost a significant amount of power but the lights and what not did come on. I know it was electrical and eventually started unplugging connectors, the only connecting the voltage regulator was fried.

So this connector is obviously done for. But I suck at electrical issues, but this has to be the problem right?
Are these symptoms of a failed voltage regulator? or is something else amidst also?

I've uploaded photos, and also a photo of the ignition unit (TCI?) the chip looked brand new, so I'm thinking it's good.

**side note** I have changed out the original fuse box for a new blade style one as is recommended on this site.

 

The inside of the voltage regulator looks good. It looks like lose connection at the plug. When we have a lose connection we get resistance which makes heat that melts the connector. Replace the plug charge the battery and you should be good to go.

 

I’ve seen that exact failure on many bikes. Connections get dirty and overheat, causes it to melt and fail. You were most likely running off the battery while riding.

You can buy those crimp connections and housing from xj4ever. I crimp and solder when replacing.

That is your TCI, the regulator is lying on the ground. I’ve only ever seen one go bad in 25 years of wrenching on bikes.

 

Yeah I didn't take a pic of the regulator.
I did take a pic of the TCI cause I want to get confirmation it looked fine.

The regulator basically looks like a piece of metal.

the other 2 pic are the regulator clip.
the first one is the female end on the bike, the second one is the male end on the regulator side.
they both don't look in good shape.

Could it honestly be just the connection?
I thought the failing regulator probably sent too much current through the connector and melted it.
I don't want to replace the connection for the bike to fry it again.

 

I agree with lostboy.... That's a classic symptom and can happen on almost any bike. However I have seen a bad stator assembly cause the same issue on a vstar 1300. The loose connection is more likely tho.

 

So leave the regulator in and just replace the connector?
Think the connector on the regulator is ok? And just change the knarly looking one in the bike?

 

This is the regulator.
I doubt you can notice a failed one visionally though.

 

If the crimp connector came out of the plastic connector base, you will need to replace the whole white connector. Male and female sides. Is either side melted?

 

The bike side it definitely melted. The regulator side has a bit of browning, but not really melted.

 

Brown black, and or white chalky coloring is typical arcing in the connector. Cut them both off, twist them wires together temporarily to start and test voltage at the battery while idling. Should see 13.0 vdc minimum preferably 13.5, but no higher than 14.2. Next hold rpm to 1600 should see about the same but on the higher end of 14vdc, if you get any higher readings the RR is bad and can over volt the system and can fry almost anything in system. A good battery can accept this higher voltage for a while somewhat protecting other components. But left like this too long will break down the battery. When that happens it will start to blow weaker\older components first like...dash lights, tail lights and cause excessive heat melting entire wire length's.

 

I haven't started my repair yet, just getting my ducks on a row first.
I do have a lead on a used regulator at a local bike scrap yard for $50.
At the price should I just replace it you think?

I was thinking about the connector. If I change both ends does it even need the connector to match the original?
I was thinking if I can source any 8 pin connector (with the proper wire gauge rating) from an autopart store should I just go ahead and slap that on there?

 

Save your money, fix the connection first. Yeah you can use any connection you want since you are replacing both. Only issue would be it would be harder to replace but as I mentioned earlier I have only seen one go bad in 20+ years and it wasn't an XJ. They are pretty reliable and simple components.

 

If you go to individual connectors for each wire when they start to go bad you just have to replace the individual connector or you can break it off into a few connectors with so many pieces of each in there I would make the power one to the bike it's on separate connector if I was going to use non OEM connectors. You can do a diet test on the rectifier and test it for the manual but I have had rectifiers that passed the manual diode test that still fail in the bike and just replace them with another used one and off I was back where I should be. You could probably get one cheaper on eBay than 50 bucks. It will be used too but unless the place you're buying it at is willing to warranty it. Then you might as well save a few dollars. The test for the regulator is how high the voltage climbs you look at the spec for most bikes and it's both the jet 2000 RPM crank it up to three or four it still should be in spec if it's going high and it's going to ruin your battery. Of course if it's low voltage out of your regulator then you should be looking at your brushes.

 

If you decide to go for an aftermarket regulator what you're looking for is a three phase regulator I believe they call it because you have three leads coming in from your alternator.

 

XJ550H the regulator is $50 Canadian, so probably closer to $40 USD haha, maybe that's sounds better.

----update----
So I think there is more to my issue. I by-passed the 2 burnt out wires and nothing.
Everything is acting funny. When i first turned the ignition on no lights at all. Pressed my clutch in, and it the lights turned on.
Tried to start it sort made a clicking noise and went dead. I swear I could hear my battery bubbling right after too.
At one point I held my front break lever in and my tachometer was going up and down ....

there seems to be voltage where there shouldn't be.
There has to be something else wrong.

Either the burnt cable connector is a symptom or it's a coincidence and there are 2 things wrong with the bike.

Any ideas?
I can't test much cause the bike wont start. (even with a push start)

 

Put a volt meter on battery when only power on. Should see 12.5 any less possibly bad battery. crank it over, anything over 14.5 and the RR is bad.. If those test good or no readings, test the stator as well. confirm no blown fuses...

Step 1. Disconnect the regulator from the stator with its ignition switched off.

Step 2. On the lowest scale, set the multimeter to either resistance or Ohms. After that, insert one probe into a stator pin socket.

Step 3. Touch its other probe into the chassis ground. Take note that when the display reads other than ‘OPEN’ or in some instances the infinity’s symbol, and show continuity, you certainly have a grounded stator. The best thing to do is to replace it.

Step 4. Insert each of the probes into the stator socket. It should be 0.2 to 0.5 Ohms. Take note that if there is an open circuit with ‘OPEN’ or even infinity reading or in some cases have much higher resistance, it is a sign that the stator is not in good condition and you should replace it as quickly as possible.

 

----Sorry for the delay I, busy with home renovations and didn't have time till now----

For the first test (12.5) what do you mean "power on"
Key in and the ignition turned on? should the kill switch be on or off?

for the 14.5V test: the starter isn't engaging so the bike is not turning over/cracking; so I'm assuming I can't do this test?

 

Key on
Kill switch on

If starter won't engage then your voltage is way too low, or that RR fried more than you think. Look on the help section here, I've seen what these fellas have assembled, and its all golden!

It is common but not always the case, but a faulty RR basically can fail in a manner that the A/C voltage output from the stator is allowed to pass though straight to the battery... I personally was riding my 99 cbr 900rr one day and happened to glance down at the digital volt gauge I added (just for these reasons, a mechanic wants constant info. Lol) and at a steady 45mph it was fluctuating from 19.4v to 20.6v. I immediately went home and tested it and the RR was the fault. Battery had boiled out and was toast as well. I was more worried why no bulbs or fuses had blown. But ive said before, a battery can take alot.....Just got lucky I guess

 

So I'm starting to think you're describing some of my issues.
I went to go do some of the tests you said, but my battery (which was on my charger) was down to 11.3v.
It was reading 12.5v before. So it has lost voltage sitting on my charger for 2 or 3 days.

I thought my fluid was fine, but on closer inspection it was a bit low, but one cell was almost completely dry.

I think the battery boiled out like you said....
So I think that battery is toast, so I think that's my first step now.
I had it tested at a local shop this year and it was at 80% battery life.
I'll take it back there again, but I think I'll be walking out with a new one.

Noob question here, but RR means rectifier/regulator?
Should I just change that out?
Or should I get a new battery and start testing?
I'm hesitant to put a new battery in a system that will damage it.

 

Sound like you had a similar experience buddy, sorry

If its what sounds like a lead acid battery and one cell cavity is empty, then yes it is most likely run its course. A lead acid battery is a series of lead plates suspended in a diluted acid solution, that when it interacts with the lead you get electrolyte chemical reaction, and has a lifespan on charges before electrolytes are gone.

Get a new battery, a new RR (yes-reg/rect) and replace the main fuse just in case. (one in bikes normal fuse box)
Also a new RR pigtail (connector, male and female sides)
Also do what I did, the red wire from the RR to the battery, is the charge wire, wire an inline fuse inline, and place a 20 Amp fuse in it like this one below. (blue 2 blade)
Make sure any wires you replace are of equal size or larger.

https://www.amazon.com/IIVVERR-Blac...rds=inline+fuse+holder&qid=1625543122&sr=8-13

Wire it in in an area that can be accessed easily, like near the battery for random testing if necessary. Ohh, and you can over charge on a home charger. When you do a long charge make sure charger is set to a low amperage, preferably 2amp and a 6 to 12v setting.

 

Awesome thanks 78, you've been super helpful!!
I'll get moving on this stuff and update with results, hopefully soon.

 

Ok Gentlemen
I have the regulator in hand, getting the battery tomorrow.

I sourced a clip from a local auto parts store. It's a Deutsch clip.
I'm not happy with it, it's rated for 16ga wire; but I suspect 1 of the wires might be 14ga ...
Plus it was super expensive, like $42.
I was thinking of returning it.

I was thinking I should just order the proper clip.
I just need the female end as the male end on the regulator is a "new"

I was thinking of just using 8 individual insulated crimps; to get road worth till a new clip comes.
What do you guys feel about this
*pics of what I was thinking attached*
*pics are the old regulator FYI*

 

There is 3 wires in that connector that will generate heat, the 3 a/c voltage output from the stator, the RR is suposed to be the source for cooling this issue as it does its rect/reg job, its internally grounded to the aluminum finned heat sink. Airflow is not always optimal in their oem mount positions so they overheat allowing the connector to melt. As you see there are several reasons why that connector can do what it did to you. That being said, you should now understand why I'm going to say no! to your suggested idea of connection, you can use any number of "pigtail" connectors for this, but it must have a "firm" and preferably weather tight connection. You can get what's called Delphi Weather Pack connectors and are top notch. Such as a 3position, and a 4 position (2)connectors to complete this job.

I'm not sure what kind of connector you were charged that much for but here is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/VIGRUE-Water...f86b5&pd_rd_wg=k1ikF&pd_rd_i=B08QMYJX22&psc=1

 

Not to hijack but how well do those hold up for you? I've been using Delphi (now Aptiv) Weatherpack connectors from Waytek for over a decade now and they are considerably more expensive than that set. Whenever I see a description like "Water Resistend Truck Harness Plug Car Spark Plug Connector" I'm a little put off.

 

These are the Delphi manufactured, just unbranded from third party retailers. You can see the green case seal, and the orange wire cavity seals, I buy the larger kits of 2 to 3000 piece, but this is still way better quality than any factory connector on most bikes. I use them whenever needed (often) for cars, trucks, bikes, atv etc...

I would stand by them, however part of it is the installer...

 

Battery order.
My local battery shop just sold the last matching battery, my luck.
Should have it in a few days though.

That kit isn't available in Canada and for the life of me I just CAN'T find a bloody 8 pin connector on amazon ".ca"
I did come across this on walmart.ca
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Nylon-...Male-Female-for-18-14AWG-Wire/PRD6KFALU5SLVS5
I sware that's the same clip as the original .... Should I give it a shot?

 

Nevermind looking closer it's a little different.
Still might be a good replacement.

 

This feels like my best bet currently.
https://www.amazon.ca/Glarks-Electrical-Automotive-Connector-Motorcycle/dp/B07Y51MXQ5?th=1
Opinions?

If I find an 8pin its tough to get one rated for 14awg

 

Search for "weatherpack connector" or "Delphi connector". you can use 2 connectors or one your choice. Not sure what you mean not avail in Canada aye!

International Shipping with Amazon
If you're from the U.S. and want to ship to Canada, you can have Amazon U.S. ship to Canada. If you're from Canada, you can hire Amazon Canada fulfillment services to pack and ship your orders.

Thats on their site....

Try this ...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25472962945...4%2FLDN%2FWX1Ve2NClD|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524




https://www.ebay.ca/itm/26483281749...0Dt1%2FseuUXAKYd15sm|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524

 

So I order the clip package you posted on Amazon. Won't get it till July 23rd ....
Oh well I know it's the right thing.

So I put the regulator I got at the wrecker and put my new battery in. Twisted the wires together and she fired up with no issue. Measured voltage at 13.3v at idle at 3000rpm it was 14.3v.
So I think it's fixed, once I get that new clip on there.

 

Aces!!, you are in spec buddy... Great job!
Make sure the new RR is bolted to metal attached to frame, and is solid with no vibration. Having it grounded will prolong the life by allowing frame to absorb majority of the heat it generates.