My 82 XJ550 is now doing this....help please.

Hello all. I finally got my black XJ550 back. Before I had the mechanic put in a new clutch and pressure plates in and then I basically could not even drive the bike or even get any speed up to switch gears. The mechanic said that it was probably the oil that I was using and so I ordered a new set of clutch plates and he used Yamaha oil for wet clutches and now it has all the gears. The only problem now is that when the bike is between 4500 rpm and 5500 you can feel the clutch slipping and the bike struggling to keep up the rpm's and speed. If I slow down out of that rpm then everything thing is good. I have tried adjusting the cable and adjuster mechanism and its still about the same. Does anyone have any idea why the clutch would be slipping just around these rpm's? thanks

 

This thread might help you to check everything.

https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/clutches-101-part-1-the-400-550-600s-with-pics.29541/

 

could be missing or out of order plates, broke.. wrong or just plain worn out springs, wrong cable or even misaligned cable pull arm.... show us some pics of your clutch setup.. upper lever adjuster, lower clutch cover arm etc...

 

Okay here are some pics of my set up: This is where it was set up when I got the bike back but the clutch handle had approx. an inch of play in it before it would engage the clutch but heres pic 1:



Here is where I changed it to:

Now i have the proper adjustment on my clutch itself where I can put a quarter in between the space before it actually engages the clutch adjuster: Okay let me know what you think and any advice on where to go from here. Thanks as always for your help

 

it does not appear to be fully releasing the clutch, not having full release will allow internal plates to slip under loads. I think I just covered this in another thread, but look up the " how to" that Franz posted for you above.... and follow it step by step...

pull cable off that arm, then using your hand push the arm towards the cable adjuster till it has some good resistance, that's where a "full" release should be, compare the distance from cable attachment point on arm to actual cable barrel.... if its at 1/2" or less you can back the adjuster at the lever back in to match this.

post picture of lever adjuster

 

@XJ550H has one of the 550's and @dkavanagh they will know for sure.

 

Thanks guys I will give it a try and let you know what happens

 

Hey mechanic...what is the cable barrel exactly?

 

sorry I forgot to post the pics of the lever adjuster but here it is:

 

You should have three or four millimeters of slack clutch lever play before the cable even starts to move. Your cable looks too tight to me. When the clutch was done the clutch lever should have been marked so that you could put it back in the same place. You also want to make sure the cable has been lubed properly and that it is routed properly so that it's not binding or too tight.

 

Change. Does your cable have any play down at the motor can you wiggle it back and forth or is it too tight.

 

At 4500 to 5,000 RPM that is when the motor starts putting the most torque and power output that is why your clutch slips at that range. Did you replace the springs and bolts when you did your clutch? Did you measure the springs to make sure they were still in spec? I'm going to go take a picture of my clutch lever on the motor

waiting for my photos to travel to this computer

 

Awesome and thanks XJ. Okay I will loosen the cable up by the handle. There is no play in the other part down by the engine. Never measured or replaced the spring or bolts when the clutch was done. Do you think that could be it? The springs? Good information on the 4500 rpm torque. Thanks

 

I think your lever needs to be moved forward a tooth or 2. botice the center of piviot rivet to screw and rod yours looks to far back

sorry edited to show 2 different clutches


\

 

I can push my cables down to motor with little effort. the cable can melt up at exhaust where it routes up make sure it is lubed

 

see how fwr back your rivet is?
mine are closer to center of case screw



the spring is the heart of the clutch it is what puts the presure on the discs .
bolts take all the stress of the action / best pratice is to change them when they have been removed if they are old/ not recently replaced.

 

Oh okay I just moved mine back to where yours is and I loosened the cable. I will go for a test drive tomorrow. If this doesn't somehow get fixed then do you think the bolts and springs are the way to go and first thing to try?

 

I'm curious, did you pay this "mechanic" to replace the plates, was it your parts or did he supply them? What parts are new?

 

lol here we go again....all parts are new and I bought and supplied them. The mechanic works here at the Yamaha dealer in the city. We've got to stay focused people and quit trying to blame someone for something. There's a problem with a 40 year old bike and I am getting some help from a guy who doesn't have to help me at all for a very cheap rate. Any other suggestions on where to go with this one besides change out the springs and bolts?

 

You don't need to get snippy with the people here, we don't have to help you either, most of us are here as a courtesy, and/or just love helping fellow bikers, so have some respect and patience please.

It has already been said to check out the "how to" section here for your clutch cable install. many things can cause your symptoms, and all were trying to do is help you determine what that is.
Now, answer these for me personally, when you say all parts new, does that mean the cable is new as well? Was it an OEM cable or aftermarket? I have done many many clutch install in my life and have seen the "aftermarket" cheap cables are not always the same length as the OEM. Too short a cable can cause your symptom as well. Some cheap clutch kits are not always the correct spring rates required and this can cause your symptom, etc....

I'm sorry for being blunt, and I'm sorry for the trouble your having, but I'm a professional mechanic myself, and I would never give a bike back to a customer or anyone that was not correctly done and finished, last part of a clutch install is the cable adjustment. As a mechanic our work is our reputation! So now you know why I ask these questions.
I'm currently at work as we speak, and I'm taking the time here and there to help you so answer these questions for me first please.

your not getting full clutch release.... if your parts are OEM, and you say your mechanic has done the job correct, then you have a cable out of proper adjustment, and I would again recommend you check out the "how to" section in here that another member has kindly wrote up for gentlemen in your position. if you answer my questions, I will continue to assist you...

 

Have you tried the bike today?

 

thats what I was expecting to read about, but it was not said?

 

Ok thanks mechanic. Sorry too for addressing the mechanic issue but on other blogs some people spent more time trying to wreck the reputation of my mechanic then actually coming up with ideas on how to fix the problem. I m not saying that my mechanic is the best or does everything right but he does what he can and I appreciate that. The cable is the original. I checked out the how to multiple times and thanks for doing that. Everything is set and its test drive time.

 

Its ok, and no problem, let us know how it goes..

 

Back from my test drive and now the clutch is slipping at a lower rpm as in around 3000 and up so what I did made it worse. I will change it back to the way I got it when it came back which was like :

Also when I got the bike back from the mechanic the clutch lever was super loose and i could pull it in with no movement for a good inch ?? So thinking along the same lines I would say that the clutch is not properly disengaging? Is that a spring/bolt thing or maybe a cable thing? At least we are narrowing it down. thanks

 

you see in your last picture, there is two nuts on the cable there, put both "jamb" nuts on the left side of the bracket and see if you get full release.

 

Could you have the wrong cable?

 

he says its original to bike...? and it appears to have some rusting age to the end there.

 

Your point about the nuts is probably the cause. Makes sense.

 

Yes, those nuts are in wrong position, they are supposed to be to tighten up angst each "jamb" other to ensure they don't loosen up, I bet that will give you back full release.

 

Great catch @Mechanic1978!! That's an easy mistake to make, but a real hard one to find when you're just standing there looking at it wondering "what's wrong, everything looks OK??"

 

Clutch lever free play should probably be only 2-3 MM. No free play = possible slippage. Too much free play = possible hard shifting.

 

Those nuts are in the correct position.
The cable is adjustable at this end by moving the nuts on the threads.
Putting the nuts together would eliminate any adjustment at this end.

 

I understand your point, however there is two nuts for a reason, and they are called jamb nuts for the specific purpose as I have mentioned before. If not there would be no reason for the nut Shape molded into the cable end and second nut. The molded nut is to hold the cable casing from spinning when tightening the first nut, and the second is a safety measure to "jamb" angst the first nut to prevent it from vibrating loose. There is no opinions here, that's how the system was designed.

 

My XJ700 manual only shows and references one nut but my replacement cable on my bike has two and I placed them one each side of the mount. I don't think there is any right or wrong way.

 

correct, or the 2nd nut.

The cable is adjusted at this end by positioning the nut at the right of the bracket, there's over a 1/2 inch of adjustment available.
A nut is tightened against the bracket on both sides to lock it in place.
What you are saying eliminates any adjustment at this end.
It appears in the photo that he already has it adjusted all the way.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

His is the 550, and yes there is a right way, and his in the photos, is not correct. The extra nut thickness on right side of the bracket is preventing the arm a full release. This prevents the outer clutch spring plate to fully clamp down the plate pack, that little bit was source of his initial trouble of slipping between 4500 rpm and 5500. Now that he has backed the cable more, it is slipping at a lower rpm.

 

Yes, in his picture there is no room for adjustment. However adjustment at the lever accomplishes the exact same thing. If the lever has free play, it will not affect the clutch plates clamping. Only an issue if the lever is tight, too tight to allow full release.

 

Lever adjustment is for minuet adjustments over time as clutches wear in.

 

from Yamaha Seca Turbo manual but they're all the same

 

tony222, if you feel you want my help, PM me...

 

Correct, and cables stretch.
The adjustment at the other end is for initial set up.

 

Adjustment at lever is not any more fine than the other, just more convenient down the road. They both will accomplish the same thing. Lever free play is the main issue. The mechanics are the same.
If it were me, I would readjust the cable sheath space at the lower end and then readjust at the hand lever to get the 2-3 MM free play. If plates don't fully close with no cable tension there is something else wrong.

 

I just checked two bikes, and clutch cables are installed as shown by @Tony222 and the manual photo.

 

I remember @chacal mentioning the the 900f and 750 steel plates are different thicknesses and if fitted in the wrong clutch basket cause problems. It is possible he has the incorrect thickness of plates in his 550 I wonder? I don't mean plates from the larger machines mentioned, but what about the 650?

 

I'm no expert either, I'm a professional. When a new clutch pack is installed it is necessary to have both Nuts on the left side of the mount plate, this makes it so the thicker plate pack has enough disengagement to compensate for the same length of cable, and fine tuned with the upper lever adjuster.

Later down the road it will be necessary to adjust one nut to the right side, and then re adjust, and fine tune with upper.

Both methods are correct, but only for the respective wear on the plates. your bikes that were compared to obviously have a significant amount of use/wear requiring a shorter amount of adjustment. Tony222 has (hopefully correctly installed) fresh plates that still need to be "seated" in and fully absorb some oil, this results in an extremely tight pack and will require more cable length to fully disengage.

 

I would think that when the bike is new with new plates and new cables, with nuts on both sides of the mount, there would be enough room to make the necessary adjustments. No mention of moving nuts after plate break in period in the manual. This is quibbling and the only real issue is: is there free play at the clutch hand lever? If so, the plates are as fully closed as they are going to get. If there is still slippage, time to look at another cause. I would hope the mechanic used the right kind of oil.

 

In my experience free play only leads to vibrations in the clutch cover release components. (rattles in case when clutch released) the cable should be adjusted to allow full plate release and no more, the external spring on the arm helps to keep the slight tension for antivibration of integral release mechanism. manuals don't always list every detail, and are most often not printed by the manufacturer, so a lot is open to interpitation by the authors. dealers don't release this info except to licensed dealers, so the "Haynes" and other manuals are not exact.

 

I think we can all agree on that.

My bikes all have car oil, (OMG I said it!! LOL) some even synthetic car oil, that's not likely to be the problem.
Well all except my Turbo just because it stresses the clutch so much I thought I'd go with the Maxima dyno as it's also turbo rated.

I know you're defensive about this mechanic Tony but this shouldn't be. Sounds like he didn't finish the final clutch adjustments.
Take it back and have him ride it.

 

Hello everyone I am back from a one week trip to the lake and I am catching up on all of your fine and outstanding suggestions!!!! The nuts on both side of the clutch cable is the way that I received the bike and its the same on my other XJ550 but....I am going to move the one nut over to make the two nuts on one side as I know my clutch is still engaging in the higher gears so maybe this will give the clutch enough room. I will make the changes tomorrow and take it for a test drive first thing in the morning. Mechanic I will pm you once I get the results of that test drive tomorrow morning and thanks everyone for your help. You guys are awesome and I really appreciate it