1100 Project

Dragged home another one. I've been looking for an 1100, and really have been wanting a GS, but when I saw this XJ I figured it was meant to be. Previous owner had got this one from an estate, long term humid shed storage, with no known history on the bike. He actually dumped a fair bit of money into trying to make it run and had repaired a lot of the cosmetic stuff, but eventually gave up and sold it.



Outward appearances being pretty good, I figured it was either the typical fuel or electrical issues and would be a quick fix and on the road. The bike already had a new battery, all the electrical appeared to work, cranked nicely...should be easy. Started the troubleshooting this morning. 3 hours later I was here....



So after the normal spark and fuel checks and cranking yielded not even the slightest pop, I checked the compression. It was zero. Not low....zero. My last hope of avoiding disaster was that somebody had really mangled the valve adjustment, but before even grabbing the feeler gages I could see gaps of almost 1/8" on the exhaust. Lovely. Bent valves. I checked the timing, more of an autopsy at this point than troubleshooting. Surprisingly everything was timed correctly. But, damage done.



My only guesses now are either it had jumped time, got buggered, then somebody re-timed it. Or the valves had seized up from long term storage and the PO unknowingly did this on the first attempt at cranking it. That's probably the more likely scenario, but all 4 got whacked, which would seem to indicate out of time. Pistons don't appear damaged at all.

Everything looks good on this bike, so it's probably worth the time to fix. But it definitely didn't fulfill my idea of cheap, quick, and on the road.

And for what it's worth, I've used this method of pulling/installing motors a few times now and it's the bees knees. Lash a chunk of 1/2" pipe, 4' long is good, to the bottom of the barrels with paracord. It's almost the balance point and makes for an easy 2 man liftout. Today I did it by myself with the cherry picker on the off end and it was darn near as quick.

You have to remove the cam chain tensioner on the smaller bikes, but the 1100 has it on the front which allows a clear path.

 

What is the plan now?
Replacement head or rebuild the head with replacement valves?

 

Not sure yet. 1100s are new to me so I've been trying to research the options, compatibility with the XS, etc.

I also should measure the bore and ring gap before deciding. Clock says 18k miles, but the title also has an odometer brand, so it might be 118k.

 

I guess it depends how much you paid for the bike and the time you have, along with the drive to get the bike on the rd. Looks like a really good project bike and you have the motor out already. Not too sure if at this point you should let it go or rebuild. I would guess if you had in mind to pull the engine, you are planning on a rebuild.

Good luck and keep posting them pics along the way.

 

New info added into the decision matrix...I almost can't believe it (but as Derek on Vice Grip Garage would say) I'm lookin right at it. Got another bent frame on my hands. Same sort of front end collision damage that exists in 4 out of 6 XJ's that I've bought. Do sellers see me coming and send these bikes off to the frame bending service ahead of time?

Two symptoms that have always indicated trouble looming: Difficulty fitting the gas tank to the rear rubber mount. As the frame under the tank bows up, the distance between the two front round rubbers and the rear mount gets shorter. The tank might be squeezed into the rear mount, but it doesn't just drop in with a small push.

Secondly, the front of the valve cover will bind with the frame when trying to remove it. Usually there's enough slop in the motor mounts to pry between the frame and motor and allow removal, but this shouldn't be necessary when things are straight.

Both of these things existed on this 1100, but I blissfully ignored them for a while. The straight edge check should be parallel with the upper frame tube. Clearly not the case here. Since I don't have another unmolested 1100 frame to compare, I'm basing this off photos of other frames and the other indicators. The gussets and frame construction on the 1100 are different than the 750, which I'm most familiar with.



So now I have a bit of a double whammy. Motor and frame. Is it ok to ride without fixing the frame? Probably. Total affect on rake angle wouldn't be known until getting it on the road. Could I do all the other work to the bike and not fix the frame and still sleep at night? Not sure. My previous attempt at frame straightening was moderately successful, and from what I learned I'm pretty sure I could do better, but that requires a full strip down, repaint, etc.

So its a quandary. This 1100 is a really cool bike, and I know they aren't as common as all the others. With all the peripheral pieces being so nice, finding another 1100 with all the flashers busted off (but a straight frame) would be a nice 2 into 1 project.

Half assed fix...proper fix...part it out. All options at this point.

 

I completely talked myself into parting this thing out. Didn't even want to waste the money transferring the title.

But....I've seen a lot of old bikes that just shouldn't be parted out. I know their bones keep the rest of us going, but keeping an old machine on the road that would otherwise wind up as scrap seems to be my thing.

So I transferred the title, found a used head. We'll see where it goes from here.

 

Two things I would be doing.
1. Check the cam sprocket on the crankshaft for wear. The valve timing has jumped, so I would be looking for why. Engine sump off, tip upside down for a look?
2. Buy a hydraulic body straightening kit, preferably 10 Ton. Work out what you need in terms of jigs and fixtures so you can place the ram without damaging the frame, and make them. Then find someone with a straight 1100 frame to take dimensions off, and pump away until the frame is straight. You'll be suprised how easy it returns to shape, will likely need to take it past the correct shape, since it will pull back when you release pressure.
Good you didn't decide to part it out, It's a good looking bike.

 

@Minimutly After thinking about it more, I believe you are correct and the only way for all 4 valves to get damaged is that the timing jumped. I even wondered if somebody could have stuck spark plugs in that were too long, but they would have hit the intake valves first and probably the pistons. Why it would be back in time now is the mystery....

The one advantage for frame straightening is the 1100 has two upper frame tubes instead of the single center tube. With that big flat gusset up front, I should be able to tack a steel pad on top with a lever arm for pulling down. With a tickle of torque and a minute of moment, combined with pushing outwards on the head tube, I think this will work better than what I attempted before on the 750 frame.

The plan is slowly congealing like yesterday's bacon grease. I'll probably try to get it running first, fix all the usual stuff like brakes and tires, and then wait for the schedule to clear out before stripping back down for the frame fix.

 

You can straighten anything with simple threaded rod and nuts, something like M20. But you need a frame to measure against.
I would check that crank though.

 

I pulled the pan to have a look. It's almost impossible to eyeball the sprocket from here, but was able to pull the chain away with a long screwdriver and see a couple teeth at a time. But both from below, and looking down through the timing chain slot from above, I don't see anything to indicate the crank sprocket is stripped or damaged. Maybe more importantly, I ran a magnet through all the sludge in the pan and didn't find any chunks or shavings.

 

So a new chain and tensioner (assuming it's worn?) should be good insurance against a recurrence?

 

Looking at info on the XS11 (internet opinions!), jumping time seems to get blamed on the chain tensioner holding bolt stripping out and backing off. I'm not going to start throwing parts at this motor unless I find obvious problems, but the tensioner needs to be checked out. After I pull the cylinders and check rings and all that, I should have a better idea of total miles and wear. Probably will measure the stretch in the cam chain as well, and all that info collectively will help determine how much to polish the terd.

I assume all XS's had manual tensioners?? Do XJ's other than the 550 have manual tensioners?

 

Made a little more progress today. Got a replacement head that looks pretty good. Figured I'd still lap the valves. While I've done this a handful of times on automotive heads, this was my first on the XJ stuff. I'm definitely no expert, but here's my process for what is worth.

Here's both heads, bent valves on the upper one. The other was complete except for shim buckets.



Before using the spring compressor give each valve retainer a good whack with a socket (don't hit the valve stem) to free up the keepers. Otherwise they'll stick.



I have about the cheapest spring compressor available, and while it works, I probably should have shelled out a few more bucks on this. Whichever you use, you'll need one that fits the retainers nicely. There isn't much room in the spring wells. On auto heads, there's a half dozen ways to remove keepers. Here you really need the proper tool. Once compressed, a magnet works best to fish out the keepers.





Here's a typical chamber and valve. Not awful, but it can be cleaned up.



Keep the valves in order. These are the only things I kept in order. If this head had it's shim buckets, I would have kept those in order (probably not necessary) but since I'm transferring them it definitely doesn't matter. Springs, retainers, keepers, etc are all interchangeable. I have this fancy Italian valve organizer, but use whatever you've got.



Here's all the parts you'll remove from each valve. Thin washer goes under the valves. Then inner and outer spring, retainer and the two keeper halves. Tight coils on the springs go down.



Then lots of clean up. Brass brush on the dremel to remove most of the carbon. Clean off the old gaskets. By the way, if you don't have a carbide gasket scraper, get one now. It's life changing.



With some basic cleaning done, it's a good time to look for cracks or other damage. Also check for warp with a straight edge. Long ways, short ways and both diagonals. This one is dead flat!



Then on to the lapping. Same way it's been done for a hundred years. There's too many videos available for me to repeat the details. Remember to oil the guide. I didn't measure the face widths because a valve grind is definitely not in the budget, and I'd just rather not know. But these valves looked pretty good, and I suspect they would spec out fine. Before and after...





After lapping, it's back to cleaning again. All that grit needs to be far away before assembly starts. I pressure washed, then soap and water, then more washing, rinsing and cleaning. Finally, clean up your tools and your work space. Wash your hands. Delete your internet history. Have every part clean before assembly, which is just the reverse order of before, with the caveat that the keepers are MUCH more difficult to go back in than they came out. This is when you realize your shop has inadequate lighting, your eyes don't work anymore, and you've had too much coffee. A thin needlenose pliers works best, and this again is where a better quality spring compressor would have been nice. But...a little persistence, lots of assembly lube (cover all parts!) and it was back together.

Here's the assembled result.



And finally, with spark plugs in, fill the combustion chambers with fuel and look for leaks in the intake and exhaust ports. Thankfully this one is sealed...didn't want to pull it apart again. Now I'm waiting for gaskets, and still want to have a look at those pistons and rings before slapping the motor back together.

 

Nicely done Sir.

 

Bores look good and are on the lower (newer) end of the spec. I only got one piston cleaned and measured today, but ring gaps also measured out towards the new end. Bore is still standard, so I'm leaning more towards 18k on the motor rather than 118. Lots more clean up to do. It was cold and snowing and not fun to work on it today.

 

Lots of upside down gasket scraping to avoid dropping debris in the case. Pistons and rings are cleaned up. No slop detectable in the rod bearings. The pistons were heavily carboned, like very rich buildup. All of them were marked "45" on top. Does this indicate an original match weight or fit to the bore? Whatever paint pen it was written with has lasted a long time in a combustion chamber.

 

And then a sneak peek at other stuff that remains after I get the motor back together. I think I'm just gonna put the lid back on this thing...

 

Today was Brake-ing Bad. Cleaned up all 3 calipers. I figure I'll make sure I don't have any unforseen motor and transmission problems before dumping all the money into the brakes. The fronts will need new pistons at some point. I was able to save all the seals and pads, good enough to function anyhow. Everything was gunked up and seized. The odd linked brakes I think are unique to the 1100 in the XJ family. The pedal operates the rear caliper and the front left, and the hand brake operates the front right.

The rear master has a proportioning valve for the front/rear split. Rear master was gunked up as well, but at least was still wet with fluid so the critical parts are salvageable.

Front master was bad enough I'll need to get a kit for that one.

 

Seals are cheap, false economy not to renew, especially wit @chacal in the same country as you..

 

It's not intended to be a long term solution. I just don't want to dump the money into the brakes until I know I have a runner. Don't need to stop if there's no go.

Seals, pistons, brake hoses, pads...it will all add up to $600-$800 depending on quality.

 

Yes, but there is a risk, well more than a risk, that you will do the job twice otherwise?

 

Yes, for sure. It's a guarantee that it will get done twice. Reviving an old seized up master or caliper that's full of goop is a lot of hard work. Replacing seals in one that is already clean is a leisurely and enjoyable afternoon project.

Incidentally, I've always heard about brake hoses swollen shut. I've understood they could become restricted, but to be fully blocked...I hadn't ever ran into it until now. The rear caliper line was 100% blocked. Couldn't force compressed air, or any brake fluid through it after it was hooked back up. So it's getting another used hose off the 750 for the time being.

 

Started on some frame straightening today. Or at least building some attachment points for jacking. I was going to attempt it with the front end still in place, but the triple trees looked a little twisted, so figured I'd fix that first. Turned out the steering stem is bent. So off with the front. This will make it easier for straightening anyhow, so probably a good thing.

Further torn down than I'd hoped for when I first brought it home.

 

Your pup is at attention and ready to assist!

 

If I had his energy, I'd have this bike fixed and on the road already!

 

If he had your fingers and brains he would have done it for you...

 

Inching through yet another carb cleanout. I wonder how many parts total are in a set? More than a dozen I bet.

 

Worked on the frame again today. I've got pretty much all the push/pull pieces in place that I expected to need, but the frame is still really stiff. I can tighten everything to the point where it feels like one more turn will be catastrophic failure and it isn't moving much once relaxed again. I'll have to think on it some more. I was trying to avoid using heat but that's an option.

The main things I'm attempting here is trying to make the main diamond shape that surrounds the motor a flatter diamond, essentially moving the stem away from the swing arm. Also trying to pull the hump out of the frame tubes directly under the tank. If those two things move, the rake angle should return at the same time. That's the theory anyhow.....

 

Before attempting more frame bending, I figured I should investigate the dimensions of a non-wrecked 1100, so I did the only logical thing and dragged another one home. So technically this isn't another bike. It's a mobile frame comparator jig, and that's the story I'm gonna have to stick with.

This one has a few issues to sort as well in the clutch and brakes, but starts and runs reasonably, and is more or less complete (all the hard to find bits are here at least). And most importantly, the frame is straight.

And something kind of cool....it has a 4 into 1 Supertrapp that allows the center stand to still work!

 

I suspect heat will be needed. As long as you don't go loony-tunes with the gas torch, the quality of the steel won't be affected.

 

Very nice job! Did you get the engine back on the bike yet?

 

Not yet. I've been distracted by the second 1100 and have gotten it back on the road over the past few weeks. Still need to attempt frame straightening again, but it's a bit daunting.

 

@Roast644 , I bet it is a bit "daunting" I would not even try it. I would say that it is a parts bike and just use the parts to being back another project bike. Once a "foundation" of anything is damaged hard to bring it back. If this was a one off type bike I can see taking al the time. But there are lots of these bikes out there to refresh and make a new.

What ever way you go, good luck. You are leaning new things at ever turn I am sure. That in its self might be worth doing it. For me, cut my losses and repurpose the parts.

 

For sure, there is plenty of logic that says it's just not worth the time or risk. The process is what I enjoy the most though, whether it succeeds or fails. And on one hand, it's easier to attempt something new on junk. Worst thing that can happen is to learn something.

There's also part of me that recognizes that guys have built much sketchier machines out of raw steel for a hundred years, so why should I be worried about riding a fatigued piece of questionably bent steel at hiway speed surrounded by 2 ton automobiles?