What to Flush the Engine with

Hi All,

I've pulled apart the top end of my engine and some of the crud I have seen isn't pretty. Anyway, I figured that while I have great access to the engine I should flush it to ensure that bits of the crud I have seen along the way haven't already made their way south into the crankcase.

I'm in Australia so no Sea Foam.... What would be your recommendation for this. Kero? The engine is obviously already drained of oil, so I want something that will run straight through and not cause trouble if there is some residual left when I put it back together later on.

Also, any recommendations for removing carbon. I've taken a few tips from searching but anything new would be appreciated.

Cheers,
oby

 

Kero would be your best bet. I used a soft brass bristle brush to remove the carbon off my head and piston tops. Works well and doesn't mar the mating surfaces.

 

Not sure on the best flush method without taking the motor apart, but as for removing carbon, I do have one great solution.

If the parts are off the bike, and able to be rinsed after, such as a cylinder head on a workbench, spray the carbon with aerosol oven cleaner. The cleaner soaks into the carbon and can then be brushed away like it never happened.

 

Oven cleaner should not be used on aluminum it eats it ! READ the can!!

 

Diesel Fuel is best for flushing as it does not leave behind solvents to instantly degrade new oil. IF you've got a carbon problem on the Pistons.chambers.. just imagine the one in yr ring lands.. Not good as deposits there wear out the rings /pistons and even bores rather quickly. Unfortunately significant damage has already happened (the telltale Piston deposits)
Easiest (proven method to decarbon piston tops and combustion chambers is to Run Water (yes!) thru a running engine.. Get a Litre water bottle, attach it to a suitable intake nipple Tricky onna Moto as there is No comunal plenum chamber.. So do each cyl individually thru the intake rubber's vac nipple and run the engine at approx 3k untill all the water is out of the botttle.. repeat annually.
Yes.. you can Use Diesel or even ATF but the Resulting Fog bank really upsets the neighbourhood.. unecessarily.

 

After a little READING!, I spoke with the mechanic that had suggested oven cleaner as a good way to clean cylinder head carbon on a bench. He claimed that with a "regulated" contact time and a thorough rinse right after, that the cleaner is neautralized and does no harm to the aluminum. He has been a bike mechanic for over thirty years, and is well reputed around our area, so I have always trusted his work on jobs I have chosen to stay away from.

Any input on this from folks that have been in this business a while?

 

go ahead and flush it but you can say goodbuy to you bearings on the lower end.

 

I have used oven cleaner on odd jobs here and there. It will etch the aluminum so don't use it on machined surfaces or anything you want left pretty. There are much better products out in the market so try that direction first.

 

Oven cleaner is for cleaning ovens. I wouldn't use it on any engine surface (OK maybe on the outside if I needed to etch the metal for some reason)
Use kerosene or diesel fuel to flush the inside of the engine. There are other types of "Engine flush' fluids on the market that may work, but I haven't tried them, so I can't comment on them. Good luck!

 

Straight ATF will clean out an engine pretty good if left to idle for awhile. Probably a few cooling fans to blow on the motor would be a good idea, so you can run it long enough for the detergents in the ATF to do their work.

 

Isn't Seafoam just naptha aka zippo lighter fluid?/? If so, maybe you can find it sold for another purpose.

 

Sounds like a good way to hydro-lock and destroy an engine!

 

I think is abit of confusion here:

Water injectors have been used for years. It's amazing what they can do for an engine. I had a water injector on 75 Trans Am. Have youy ever noticed how much better your car seems to run when there is a thick fog in the air. This isn't your imagination. Water has been used for thousands of years as a lubricant, thats right folks, long before oil, infact I heard of an old geezer that once in a pinch put water in his tractor's crankcase to get it home about 2 miles without harm. Anyway, water injectors are no made to fluch the engine but are made to intruduce a very, very small amount of water while the engine is in operation and not to introduce it lower than a certain RPM.

The question is while the bike is apart, what to use to flush all the gunk and build-up from the engine before it is put back in service. Oven cleaner is a bad idea. I stay away from anything that has to be neutralized in short order. It probably works but as was said in an earlier post, if that gets into the bearings and not completely rinsed they will fail.

Diesel or kero sound like a best idea but not when the engine is running or you'll be black flagged :?

And oh...Naptha is not Zippo Lighter fuel. When you put that in your lighter let me know and I'll call the fire dept. for you.


The Buff

 

Seafoam is not lighter fluid. Of course you can put some in your lighter to clean it out maybe?
Daveflick, where do you get such information?
Actually, Seafoam can be used in the crankcase to clean it. You just follow the directions and it should work for you. PD

 

Great thing about this board is that you can throw out an idea and if you're wrong, someone will correct you. OK, I did a little research on my own and according to the MSDS for zippo lighter fluid http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... 1b9SSMSgTA
the first ingredient is indeed naptha. The MSDS of Seafoam http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... 1b9SSMSgTA
also lists Naptha as a main ingredient. Seafoam also contains a good deal of Pale Oil which as I understand is a light oil something like WD-40. So I may be totally wrong about the practical application of substituting one for the other, I had read somewhere about a relationship between seafoam and naptha so again, I thought I'd just throw it out to the board and someone with much more experience and smarts than myself would help sort it out. Next time I'll try to answer questions with solutions that I have verified to work.

 

Somehow things seem to get put under a microscope along the way and investigated to the point where everyone is sceptical about even using a product.
Seafoam works, that I do know. I have used it for years and never had any ill effects from it. I don't care what it's made of or how they make it. If it's packaged in the basement of a massage parlor in Orlando, Florida, I'd still use it. If it was bottled in a whiskey still in West Virginia, I'd use it. If it had NASA rocket fuel in it, I'd even use it. If it had cat shit in it, I'd use it!!!
If Naptha is the main ingredient, then fine, I stand corrected. I use Naptha then, so be it. I works that's all I know.
If you need to do research on every product you use, then go ahead and investigate away. Take a DNA sample and get it tested for who's body parts are in it!!!! Take finger prints off the can and see if a convicted felon stocked the shelves with it if you like. Make sure the paint on the can doesn't have lead in it too!!

...ok, where's my cigarettes? ...there that's better. Rant's over now!!! LOL PD

 

I had water injection on my 3000gt vr4... allowed me to reach 24 PSI without frying things...


also as far as flushing the engine, i've had luck with Kero..

mix half and half, oil and kero, run the bike for alittle AT IDLE, never speed the engine up as you COULD BLOW YOURSELF UP.

after 10 or 15 mins, drain oil, change filter, repeat if ness. or just add new oil... change the new oil in 500 miles, and filter..

you should get good to go then.

 

I prefer mechanical cleaning and then rapid oil and filter changes.
The reasoning goes like this:
The deposits built up slowly and if you remove them too fast it might plug up small areas that you can't reach without more disassembly.
If you insist on flushing it I would recommend Sea Foam or Berryman's B-12 Chemtool or a product that is for flushing engines.
If you flush do several oil changes in rapid sucession to flush out any leftover solvents.

 

engine flushing ok heres what i read and what i did
many years ago i was given a practice test for aircraft power plants, one of the questions was what to rinse the crankcase with after pulling the heads to replace head gaskets
there were 4 answers, i only remember two, mine and the right one
i said kerosene, wrong, gasoline was the right answer
i asked my buddy to question the teacher about it and the answer was gas will evaporate faster, boil off faster and not dilute the new oil as much ???
i still don't know about that one
when i split the cases on my 750 for the starter clutch
i just set it on the tailgate and hosed it out with the garden hose, no soap just water, that was two years ago and it seemed to have worked fine

 

PainterD
I think I was in that massage parlor in Orlando but I didn't see the Seafoam in the basement. There were a lot of other questionable product but I can confirm that it doesn't come from there. I know what your thinking...I there on business..Ya! thats right business.

I was also at the JD distillery at didn't find any Seafoam in there bottling plant so it's confirmed it doesn't come from there either.

Went to NASAs vehicle assembly building in FL and didn't see any suspicious presents of the product there either. They could however disguise it by using some weird acronym SIRF (Seafoam Intergalactic Rocket Fuel)

Haven't been to a Cat Poop plant but I think I can confirm that by the odor it doesn't seem possible.

I did however go to sea several times......But, wouldn't saltwater have negative effects on engine parts??

Hmmmm.........

I'll keep you posted on my investigations on this product, very mysterious this Seafoam......

The Buff

 

Great_Buffalo,
Ya, I guess I asked for that one! Good stuff. Your too funny. PD

 

Painter and Buff you guys just sent me rollin'. Way to funny!!

 

Comment on a couple of things:

Water Injection: This was done to cool the incoming combustion mixture to prevent premature ejacu...er, I mean, ignition. And, yes, the person who said, doesn't your vehicle seem to run better in a thick fog is correct. The moisture in the fog does the same thing. Cools the air which allows for a denser fuel/air mixture.

Oven Cleaner: The person who suggested using oven cleaner was I believe only referring to the carbon buildup on the pistons and valves. Not the crankcase.

Water as Lubricant: Water was the first lubricant. When you ice skate, your blades actually melt the ice to create a very fine, almost microscopic layer of water that allows the blade to glide. Also, I am sure that there have been a few people who, in dire emergency have replaced the oil in the crankcase with water in order to limp home. However, Water is also the universal solvent. The ferrous metal in an engine will be "attacked" by the water and will start to corrode. So, as a last ditch effort, water could be used, but, not for very long.

Seafoam: This is a wonderful product. It has very uses including adding to the engine oil to assist in removing buildup prior to an oil change. You can also add to the fuel system to help with top end buildup. It is also a better fuel stabilizer than Sta-Bil. Especially for larger engines.

Just my $.02 worth.

Also, in Mpls, there is a radio show (KSTP AM 1500) primarily for cars but the host, Paul Brand, will also talk about other things that have engines in them, (bikes, lawn mowers, boats, etc..). He is an advocate of Seafoam. He uses it in most everything. He could be biased as they may be a sponsor of his but, on the whole, his information is quite good. Much better than Click and Clack on MPR. At least in my humble opinion.

 

EdinaDad, ...word.
I've listen to him from time to time also and agree (but mostly listen to WCCO AM) Like I stated earlier, I don't care what's in it, it works. PD

 

A friend put me onto this method with my old datsun...he uses it on his Valiant and has been doing so for years. We sprayed about a litre of water through the carby with a spray bottle and kept the revs up. We put a rag over the exhaust pipe and afterwards had an idea of how much carbon came off. Although I was hesitant at first, I trusted him enough to give it a shot and now the car runs beautifully.

As for flushing the motor....what about getting some cheap oil and flushing it out with that?