Clutchless Shifting

i find it almost impossible on my race machines to move the shifter while wide open, the choice is to clutch or let off. i have proven for myself, that letting off the throttle to shift is almost a half second slower by the time you reach top speed, than if you hold it WO and pull the clutch enough to make the shift.

to each his own i guess.

 

I use the clutch to go from first to second and after that I can get smoother shifts without using the clutch. But I have been riding this bike for 14 years so I kinda know what it likes and where it likes to shift at. Going down is another story and I almost always use the clutch. I had the bike fall over when it was parked on blacktop and busted the clutch lever off one finger width away from the pivot point. I needed both hands to pull it in so I could start off after that I had to shift both up and down without a clutch back home. This was about a 20 min ride with a few stops and lights but I took the back roads and rolled through the stops and timed the lights so I did not have to completely stop. I would have had a nice tow bill if I had not been able to shift without a clutch. It's a good thing to be able to do but to each their own.

 

i had a suicide shifter on the cases made of vise grips once....it was cool, but got old quick so i only used it to start and stop.

 

Well, today it happened- - pulled the clutch and felt a "POP" which was the second to last cable strand to break, the next pull broke the last.
Was on a 100 mile ride to the salvage yard, it broke 7 miles from home.
This thread came to mind. Timing the traffic at red lights is the hard part.
I pulled to the far right edge and idled in first, waiting for the green, then carefully picked a "sleeper" in a SUV to merge in front of. I had to shut down once at a stop sign. I chose to start in neutral, duck walk, and jam into 1st. Starting in first might overload the chain guides?? a problem area on XJ's??

I think everyone should practice clutchless riding but it should not be done on a regular basis. Remember- - FRAGILE ! HANDLE WITH CARE !

 

Clutch is there for a reason. I would no more ride a bike and not use it than I'd drive my Son's PT Cruiser and not use it. JMOOC

 

The article refers to "modern gearboxes", which I would argue ours aren't.
I always use the clutch.

The only real trick I've found is when going into neutral, it helps to bring the RPMs up to 2K, then shift into neutral.

 

your son's pt cruiser has tight tolerance back cut multi plate synchronizers, so it wont work. a bike transmission however, its fine.

one of my race machines has a sealed bottom end from 2003, and is still shifting perfectly. it very rarely gets shifted with the clutch.

when done properly, shifting without the clutch is smoother than using it. its not the easiest to do when you are putting in traffic, so in those situations i do use the clutch.

everybody should be capable of doing it, as TIMEtoRIDE said based on his recent experience.

 

Both of my XJs are perfectly happy upshifting without the clutch. I rev just past the normal shift point, apply slight pressure on the shifter, and let the revs drop just a bit. The bike shifts into next gear almost on its own...

 

Starting in first would require hacking the standard electrics. It's a no go safety.

Glad you got home safely. I'm glad to have towing coverage and better, a bunch of local friends with trucks and trailers. That's WAY too much risk around where I ride unless it was about 3.:00 a.m.

 

There's one big difference between our bikes and the trucks. (I too have spent some time in a big rig) When a trucker shifts he pauses in neutral while the input drive gear speed matches the driven gear speed of the gear being engaged.
I'll have to give this a try.

 

. . . But with a broken clutch cable, I could pull the clutch LEVER and set-off in first, and the relay would think the clutch was pulled. This actually is a "go", but I chose not to load the starter chain and guides.
I had no trouble negotiating five o-clock traffic, but I was prepared to leave the road, ride in grass, or shut down safely at any point.
I had absolutely no trouble handling the bike without a clutch.

 

I only use the clutch for starts and stops, really. Due to the nature of my bike, I usually start in second gear anyway. Upshifting and downshifting I do clutchless, unless I'm gonna go from 5th all the way down to 2nd in a short distance. But if you see my shifter, you'll see why I shift clutchless. Once you get used to it, you can get much smoother shifts than you ever could with a clutch shift.

 

Last fall the clutch cable on my XS400 broke several miles (10) away from home and work, where I was heading. Spent 15 minutes making a few useless phone calls and wondering what to do next. Then out of desparation I decided to start the engine, duck walk the bike to as much speed I could manage, hit first gear and try to bring her in on first gear.

I managed to do that even though it clanked a bit when hitting first gear. Instinctively I tried getting into second gear when the engine rpm seemed right. To my surprise it went into second very smoothly - easier than with the clutch even. Boy I was happy. Still on instinct, I could downshift with no problem at all either - with a play of the throttle always. I would slow on stop signs and stop completely on reds I could not time correctly. I was trying to avoid clanking her into first gear as much as I could. Getting her into neutral was not a big problem for me, just the first gear.

So I got home ok, bought a new cable, oiled it and it was ok. No damage discernable (chain, spokes).

Otherwise I use the clutch, but since reading this, I'll test it again upshifting from 2nd gear. Very useful to know you can do that to get out of trouble, at least!

Nice thread...

 

Ah yes, very clever. Did't have my brain fully engaged (speaking of clutching).

So, did you ever find yourself grabbing the useless clutch lever out of habit?

 

Tried it today. This is the way it works on my XS400 is I have to tuck the shift lever up with very little pressure - practically none - and wait for the rpm to hit just the right numbers and the gear engages. It does so on relatively low rpms.

Didn't do downshifting, just up from second.

I'll stick with the clutch unless I don't have it anymore. It's very useful to know you can get out of trouble this way.

 

I use the clutch virtually all of the time except for the rare need for a hasty entrance into a busy road, or to get out of the way of an on-coming idiot. I figure the clutch is there for a reason.........use it. But since you CAN shift w/o it in an emergency, I'll shift w/o it in an emergency.

Dave Fox

 

I got out yesterday and gave it a try. Not too difficult to get the hang of when shifting around 3500-4000 rpm and down around 2000 on the downshifts but a little error makes a pretty noticeable "clunk".
I'm with the old heads here (Red-liners & Wizards). I may use it as an option now and then and it's nice to know it will work if I ever need it but it won't become my normal routine.

 

I too was out this weekend and a gave it some practice. I found that if I let the revs get to 5k before the shift it was prefectly smooth no noise at all except for the dropping revs.

I tried doing some clutchless downshifts but I couldn't get it just right (some slap though not too much) so I was wondering what the correct downshift procedure is.

(I think people have only posted how to upshift here though I may have missed a discription of how to downshift properly)

 

I find that putting a little pressure on the shifter, then giving the throttle a little blip will get the gears in line for an easy shift.

 

If you're already engine braking, just blip the throttle as you push the shifter down. If you're cruising and want to take it down a gear for a hill or something, let off the throttle as you push down the shifter. The second circumstance is the hardest clutchless shift to master.