starter completely messed up inside

hello all..... this is only my 2nd question since joining early in the summer, I purchased an 83 Maxim xj550, had a petcock problem, was able to fix, and got her going pretty good, only put around 1500kms on her until the latest issue. The bike being 25 years old, i knew i would be in for a "ride" over this winter, the plan is a complete tear down and rebuild, lower as much as possible, no cutting for this year, possible new paint.

Anyway my problem is with starting, a month ago, the bike became hard to start, I would charge up the battery over night (PO said the battery is only a couple years old, looks that way), and usually would start, so one fine sunday afternoon, I get ready to go for a nice little short cruise, and the problem begins, the bike turns over, lots of juice from the battery, I tested the solenoid using the repair manual i purchased for the bike, that's ok, so i figured maybe i should check the starting motor, I follow the book to remove the starter, I slowly open up the end that seals into the engine, and see whole lot of dark grease, which I am thinking if it was white to start, what am i going to find on the other end. So i slowly pull open the electrical end for inspection, and i see nothing but grease and grimy dirt, I can barely distinguish what is what, i have read using electrical component cleaner is what i should use here.

Question, how fragile are these connections, I was going to use a 3in1 lubricant that also cleans grease and grime good with a toothbrush?

 

Stick with brake cleaner or electrical cleaner. You can spray the windings and all to clean. Clear the grease from the gear end with brake cleaner and regrease. The dust is the remains of your brushes due to normal wear, check them - the minimum service limit is 8.5 mm I believe. Replace them if needed.

Clean the commutator (slotted brass ring the brushes ride on) clearing the junk from between them.

Correction I recommended using steelwool to clean the commutator. Steelwool can leave filings behind and cause you major issues - I apologize for giving this bad advice. When fully disassembled I do use steelwool myself but you have to be VERY careful to fully clean it up which can be challenging. Please do not emulate my bad practice.

 

One thing I missed be careful when putting it back together. There are location tabs. If the brushes are rotated a bit the starter will run backwards!

 

This is my recommendation for dealing with a Dirty Starter:

Pull the starter. Clean the heck out of it.

After you get it on the bench ...
Use a Magic Marker or a Sharpie and MARK the Starter on its Bottom Side from End to End to have a Visual Aid in lining-up the Sections for reassembly!

Two long screws hold BOTH indexed ends to the main body.

Remove the gear end and COMPLETELY clean and re-lube that end.
You'll need to spread one Circlip to get the Planet Main Shaft out.
Keep track of washers and spacers.
Look on the ends of the shaft and inside the housing for thin Thrust Washers that like to stay stuck where they are.

Keep everything in order as you disassemble the Planet end.
Two small Planet Gears on opposed shafts.
The Ring Gear and Main Shaft.
Every Spacer and Thrust Washer.

Clean the "Whole-works" of the "Business-end." All of it so nice and clean a Marine Drill Instructor would have the Company check-out yours as good example.

Check for washers and thrust washers hiding on shafts and bearing ports.
Again, ...
Check for washers and thrust washers hiding on shafts and bearing ports!

Clean the Electric end; too.

Pull the Case away from the Motor -- slowly.
There's NO slack in the wire connecting the Brushes to the External Power Post.
Slip the Brushes off the Commutator.
Look for a Thrust washer - inside the Case - surrounding the port for the case bearing bushing.

With the starter exploded. Clean.
Use straight Isopropyl Alcohol loaded into a Trigger Sprayer that has the Stream or Spray option.

Withdraw the Armature.
Spray everything until its completely clean and what you are spraying ON is as clean as what is dripping OFF!

Shoot the Commutator, Brushes, Brush Housing, Electrical Lead and the inside of the Electric end Case. Clean.
If the Commutator needs to be "Dressed" because it shows light scoring or marks from Brush arcing:
Use GLASS PAPER to lightly sand down and refinish the Commutator ends.

Shoot WD-40 on the CLEAN windings and magnets.

Lube the whole-works as you reassemble the Starter.

Using Top Quality Synthetic Waterproof Grease:
Everything and every surface on the Planet - Business End - gets lubed as it's reassembled.
Shafts, shaft bushing ID's, washers, spacers, gears, pivots, bushings, etc.
Grease everything. Either liberally -- for function, or smeared-on for both rotational forces on it ... or, to hold it from slipping as you reinsert bearing shafts into bushed port on the case.

Spin the Planet Shaft after its re-clipped in and grease the rotating Planet Gears -- "On the Fly" ... as they rotate around the inside of the Ring Gear.

Lightly smear washers and spacers on the Electric End ... but, don't allow the grease to contaminate electric connections and Commutator.

Get a dab of grease into the port on the Electric end; and smear the end of the shaft which fits there.

Now, the fun and games of getting the Brushes lifted onto the Commutator and everything lined-up and back together begin.
Use the locating Tabs to help you.


It's like a Chinese Puzzle.

Only ... "Made in Japan" !

 

Bill / Rick

thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it goes! hoping to get this done by end of weekend. with any luck this will fix my problem, however, as i stated, i plan on tearing down the bike and rebuilding.

thxs again,

Lab_xj550

 

Don't panic - the internal condition of your starter is actually pretty normal for something of this age and vintage - I found the same condition inside my 82 XJ650 and 84 V45 Magna starters. All the advice given above is very good. What you are doing is really periodic maintenance that hasn't been done up till now. Do it right, put new brushes in it and you'll be good for another 30K miles. Just be glad that starter removal and overhaul is an easy job on the XJ series.

 

Please see my edited post above - I gave some bad advice and don't want anyone to suffer for it....

You win some you lose some

 

And some get called because of rain!

No harm; no foul.

 

And don't forget to order up new brushes, odds are new ones are called for given the age of your steed. Check with Chacal for price and availability.

 

quoting rick: Use GLASS PAPER to lightly sand down and refinish the Commutator ends.

what the heck is glass paper and where do you get it? I've been to the the hardware store, the auto parts and the auto paint store and no one had heard of it.

sorry for bringing up an old post

 

glass paper
1. A strong paper faced with powdered glass on one side and used in abrading or smoothing surfaces such as wood or leather, or to remove surface marks from paper. It is sometimes called sandpaper, although sandpaper is actually faced with sand or natural flint and not glass.

 

so is silicon or aluminum oxide sandpaper good for the job? the haynes says to avoid wetodry because it leaves particles on the commutator surface...

also, is there a way to bend up the tang that retains the copper braid of one of the brushes (replacement), or do I have to cut the braid and solder the new one onto the old tang?

 

The danger in using an Oxide finishing paper is have particulate from the paper get lodged between the Copper extensions on the Commutator and causing a short between them.

The Old School Glass Paper is really the best way to go.

But, there are aerosol cleaners which were not available back in the day.
I suppose ... you could use an oxide paper and spray all the traces of residue away after the refinishing.

I'd look at each space under a magnifying glass to assure that nothing was left to cause a short between contacts.

 

good to know about the contacts, thanks. i used some electrical cleaner spray and it cleaned up pretty well. where do you get that glass paper, and what do they call it in the store? i haven't been able to find it.

what about that tang, can you bend it back?

 

Lab:

Please take a look at this link on re-assembly of your starter, it drove me nuts for 2 weeks till we resolved it as a group:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... rt=30.html