Double-check my shopping list?

Somewhere in all these posts a guy said it cost him $90 in parts to rebuild his set of carbs. I dunno if he cut corners or got lucky or what. My shopping list of parts and tools to do the job RIGHT is $475.00. I can reduce it to about $369 if I leave out jets and just attempt to clean all of mine. I built this list with Chacal's vendor parts list and accompanying explanation. You guru's, please look this over and see if I'm missing anything critical:

Carb Rebuild Parts/Tool list

HCP38BSET8- Throttle shaft seal set $25.00
HCP5904- JIS screwdriver set $37.95
HCP39CSSET4- throttle shaft seal shims $07.25
HCP1347SET8- butterfly valve retaining screws $05.00
HCP905SET2- Throttle shaft end retaining clips $01.50
HCP8393KIT4- Idle mixture screw kit (fine) $69.95
HCP254- Idle Mixture Screw Removal Tool $17.95
HCP9849- Idle Speed Screw Grommet $01.95
HCP2421SET6- Fuel Supply Tube O-ring Set $04.00
HCP8365SET4- Main Fuel Jets set $21.95
HCP885SET4- Pilot Fuel Jets set $11.95
HCP2776SET4- Lower End Deluxe Rebuild Kit $88.00
HCP8540- Diaphram Rubber Rejuvenation Fluid $09.95
HCP3112SET4- Bowl Drain Screws $18.00
HCP1264- Anti-sieze $02.95
HCP1266- Thread Lock $05.95
HCP1282- YICS Port clean-out tool $14.95
HCP93- YICS Port Blanking Tool $39.95
HCP95C- Colortune Plug $49.00
HCP9798- Float Height Ruler $08.95
HCP4926x2- Fuel Level Tube Gauge $03.95
HCP950- Cleaning Wire Set $07.95
HCP2296- Starter Jet Cleaning Drill Bit $11.95
HCP8594- 400 grit $01.95
HCP8596- 600 grit $01.95
HCP8597- 800 grit $01.95
HCP8598- 1000 grit $01.95
HCP8600- 1600 grit $01.95
$475.75 8O

 

Don't know about the list, but your comparison is not really fair; the majority of your costs here are one-time tool purchases, not expendable/wear parts.

 

Agreed. I don't own the proper tools and I'm not interested in stripping things out and buggering them up so I gotta make the investment.

Oh, all this is for a US '82 XJ750 Seca...for anyone looking to double check my parts.

 

The list you have here will allow you to sit down and actually enjoy the process of rebuilding your carbs instead of constantly stopping to search for "this" tool or "that" o-ring and wondering if you got it right. This will set you up for sucess instead of doing it right the second or third time as is often reported by others here.

That being said, you might want to wait on the jets until you confirm they are right by adjusting the valves, rebuliding carbs and then going through the whole tuning process. Jets don't wear out, they are either boogered up by someone with the wrong tool or the wrong size for your altitude/configuration.

The only other thing I would add would be a can of good old fashioned carb dip from your local NAPA, 20-30 bucks more.

It's all part of the journey!

 

Thanks Captain. That was the goal. (setting up for success) The carb dip was a given.

If what you say is true, my main and pilot jets are not messed up so I can just clean them. The idle jets still have the tamper plugs so I guess they haven't been removed. Hopefully I won't mess them up when I drill the plugs out. That will save me considerable money.

I guess I'd better add a valve cover gasket to the list since I need to check my valves. Are they adjustable or will you always add or subtract a shim to change them?

 

The valves are shimmed, so, if the clearance is not right, you will need replacement shims. The gasket may be reusable, depending on how old it is. You should have a pretty good idea once you've removed the cover.

 

Changing shims IS the "adjustable" part. There is only one shim per bucket/valve, the thickness is what adjusts the clearance. Depending on the mileage on the bike and the degree of maintenance performed by its previous owners, you may find that only a handful of the eight need intervention. The biggest setback is that unless you lay in a whole boatload of shims, you don't know which ones you'll need until it's been torn down.
If you are replacing the gasket, be sure to replace the composite metal/rubber "donuts" that go on the bolts. The bolts themselves have shoulders that prevent overtightening, the "donuts" actually do the work of pressing the cover down against the gasket. Glue the gasket to the cover with gasket sealer and grease the other side and it will be reusable for years.

 

Swell. A whole new issue. My impression is that this bike was not well cared for in it's life. It's not rusty from being outside, but it sat disassembled for years and when it was ridden, I believe it was ridden hard and not given regular care, especially as it got older.

I'm not actually trying to restore this bike. It's meant to be a "learner" bike because I'm a new rider. I mean, it doesn't make sense to buy a shiny new VMAX just so I can drop it by accident when I'm still learning.

I just want it to run "fairly well". Ah well..I'll consult the manual to see what's involved.

Thanks!

 

Hey guy, if you are going to really put that much money and time into the bike, I think you should aim for screaming instead of running 'fairly well'.

If you are like me when you hear your bike running fairly well and then you put the vacuum guages on and start tweaking and you hear that inline 4 squat down and start growling......youll see what I mean.

 

sushi dont you have to sets of carbs you could swap some parts to get one good set?? that would def do it but 400 some dollars seems like alot when you are just getting started...

 

Instead of ordering all these parts up front, I'd recommend you start with a can of the parts dip and a can of spray carb cleaner and go to work. Once everything is cleaned up, disassemble everything and do a detailed inspection of what is right and what isn't right with your carbs. I found that most of the carb parts can be cleaned up and reused if corrosion isn't a factor. As a minimum I'd want to replace the float bowl gaskets (4 ea), the throttle shaft seals (8 ea), fuel tube o-rings (6 ea), float bowl drain screws (4 ea), and mixture screw o-rings (4 ea). Next consider replacing the jets if corrosion or damage is present. Lastly consider replacing the screw hardware depending on damage, etc. I'd only order what you really need to replace, adn you can determine this once everything is apart. Chacal is very fast with delivery. I was able to replace the throttle shaft seals and re-use the screws that go into the throttle shaft - did not need to purchase the special Japanese screwdriver set to do this. I think I spent about $ 100 in parts to do my carbs, and they were in good shape to begin with.

While the carbs are off make sure that the carb-to-head rubber boots are intact and not cracked. If they are cracked replace them now, otherwise tuning and proper performance will be comprimised later on.

Once you complete a nice rebuild on the carbs, you can get the bike to run reasonably well and then invest in more tools to do a carb synch and valve adjust to really tweak engine performance.

 

I would also strongly recommend replacing the float needle valve units (part of the lower end rebuild kit) if you decide to trim the list down.....they're old, and are a "very likely culprit" for failure of a kind that you'd rather not experience.

And although you MAY get the throttle shaft screws out without damaging them, they're a pretty tough nut to crack, ESPECIALLY without the JIS screwdrivers. For $5.00 I would get the replacement screws and replace them or at least have them around if needed; you can always return them to me for a refund if you end up not needed them.

For additional cost saving, you can purcahse only the #2 and #3 sized JIS screwdrivers individually (instead of the entire set); the #2 and #3 sizes are the only ones you'll actually need for the carbs (the #2 especially; the #3 is the correct size for the upper rack screws only, but of course, those are the hardest screws to remove and thus the easiest to strip!).

And the cleaning wires set and the starter jet clean-out bit are pretty invaluable, also.

Of course, it's always possible to "fabricate" just about anything and save a few $$'s; it becomes a time/precison vs. money tradeoff. For example, you can forego the YICS port blanking tool and stuff oil-soaked rags into the YICS chamber with a 3/8" wooden dowel rod as a "ram", and perhaps get just as good a synch accomplished; you can go to a hardware store and get some .018" steel wire and bend a 90-degree tip onto it and make a YICS passage clean-out tool. Of course, the trip to the store costs in time and money also, as well as the fabrication and experimentation time.

Actually, I've found that I can take about 90% of the carbs apart with a small adjustable pipe-wrench! It's just not a pretty sight to behold...........

 

You might want to take a minute and read chacal's "cost of ownership" piece in his "parts store" thread. These bikes are extremely well engineered and almost bulletproof once 26 years' worth of neglect and improper maintenance has been reversed.
I paid $800 for my '81 and put that much again into it (NOT counting investments in special tools which I need anyway with two of 'em) in the process of going through it from stem to stern and performing every recommended maintenance in the book.
It was worth every penny and every minute and every newly formulated profanity.
I now have a virtually brand new 27 year old bike that starts right up, rides, accelerates (RIPS is more like it) and stops like a new bike and is a nekkid motorcycle I can love unlike the Tupperware clad crotch rockets or Harley wannabes available today for 4 or 5 times as much money.
Plus I made a whole bunch of new friends and learned a WHOLE LOT of valuable stuff in the process.
It's so worth it I bought another one and am doing it again.
The moral of the story: Unless you want the process to take 9 times longer than necessary, stay your course and do it right the first time. In some cases that means go big or go home. Trust me it's worth it, but it will require time and effort not just $$$.

 

Uhhh...I appreciate the good words but did you guys actually read my list? I had the deluxe lower end carb rebuild kit on there, plus all the special tools. I'm not going to substitue anything. I'm not looking to cut any corners. I was even going to replace all of my jets instead of attempting to clean them unti someone suggested that I might be going overkill.

Whether I spend $370 or $475 matters little to me. Hell, I'm willing to pay a professional to do the job but I can't seem to find one. I'm just glad the parts are available.

I'm not interested in cobbling togeter a working set from 2 dirty sets. I've already played the "carb dip" game and all it did was make things worse.

Chacal sent me an email that was 50 pages long when I printed it. I went down line by line, isolating parts and tools for the job and was just asking if it looked like I had omitted anything critical.

 

You won't. Most bike shops DO NOT want to see us. Boy aren't we all (in regard to parts.) Chacal is a lifesaver, SOME things are still available from Yamaha (quite a bit, actually) but at premium prices. There are a lot of aftermarket parts out there some are pure crap. Luckily we hav chacal to ensure we get the CORRECT stuff like the proper throttle shaft seals. +1 on not cutting corners, more power to you. Try to find a factory book, they're worth every penny. Your list looks good, although you could still add some stuff...<kidding>

 

Sushi, I read it, I was just responding to the post by "brtsvg" who did not mention the float needle valve components in his discussion. My response was really to his post, , he brought up some good points, and I just wanted to add to and clarify some of the issues that he brought up!

50 pages, wow! I didn't realize.......

The only major thing I see that's "missing" from your list is the synch gauges, and also, as fiz mentioned, all the stuff you're going to need to do a valve shim clearance check and adjustment (if necessary). Although most people refuse to fess-up to the cold, hard, mechanical facts of the matter, the valve clearance issue has a direct and critical impact on how the carbs perform. Of course, you can do the valve shim clearance check and adjustment (if needed) while the bike is non-operational (carbs off, etc.), and actually, you should complete that task BEFORE you install and tune your newly rebuilt carbs.

And down the road, you'll actually be glad, perhaps even thrilled, that the dealerships, etc. refused to work on your carbs, as that's almost always a slop-job waiting to happen.

 

Thank you. (For some reason a lot of new XJ owners go into "denial" in regard to valve adjustment.) It really is critical.

 

bigfitz wrote: The biggest setback is that unless you lay in a whole boatload of shims, you don't know which ones you'll need until it's been torn down.


Didn't I read one time on the forum that Chacal will exchange old shims for new shims once the measurements are taken and you know exactly which shims you need? If so, your scooter will be down a little longer (waiting for the correct shims to be delivered) but the cost should be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. I thought that the replacement shims would be billed and then part of it refunded when your old shims are returned.

Was I dreaming?

WAMAXIM

 

YES, you were (dreaming). As an aside, was it in technicolor, or just black-and-white?

Unfortunately, you bring up a good myth, the do-it-as-cheaply-as-possible "wet dream" that a number of people have in regards to valve shims: that they can be re-used.

This is a Very Bad Idea on many fronts, beginning with the fact that you have no way of telling what actual thickness a used shim is.......never mind that it was a 270 (for example) shim when new, after so many miles/years/etc. of use, who knows what it is now? Which means if you're planning on re-using shims, make sure you re-measure both the shim and the clearances after you re-install it (which of course, you should be doing anyway. REMEMBER, the valve shim "size charts" in the service manuals says something along the lines of "if you have a 270 shim installed, and your measured clearance is .018, then replace that 270 shim with a 275 shim, etc. What is NOT made clear is that they----they being "the chart"----is assuming that the currently installed 270 shim is actually still 2.70mm thick, because only then will a measured .018 clearance require a 2.75mm shim to "correct" the clearance back to the proper .011-.015 clearance! Suppose the 270 shim you remove is actually, after all the wear-and-tear that it's endured, really a 2.67mm thick shim? Then the chart's replacement size shim guide is not quite so accurate.........).

And then, make sure you determine whether the surface-hardening treatment on that used shim is still intact: in all probability, the surface hardening treatment is only a few micron's deep into the surface of the shim, and once that is breached, much more rapid shim wear can be expected (meaning more frequent shim replacements in the future).

Yamaha specifies that used shims should not be re-used. They are cheap enough that their advice should be followed. Valve shims are designed to be replacable wear items, just like brake pads. No one re-uses brake pads or swaps those out from a used bike (do they?).

ALSO: as tempting as it may be, do not use a magnetic tool of any kind to remove or replace valve shims. Doing so will every-so-slightly magnetize the shim, which means it will collect any ferrous particles in the oil flow and hold them, turning your valve shim(s) into crocous paper for the cam lobe, with predictable long-term disasterous results. Let you oil pan drain plug remain as the only magnetized object in your engine; every last one of your bearing surfaces will thank you.

 

Whoa...the magnetic tool note is quite an eye opener.

Ok, I acknowlege the criticality of a valve job before attempting to sync and adjust rebuilt carbs. I'll have to look at your parts lists to see how expensive they are.