true or false?

true or false:
it's OK to use silicon gasket maker instead of real gaskets for oil pan, clutch and shifter covers?

 

I have and they aren't leaking. doesn't really make it ok tho.

 

kjohnson, what is the downside?

 

you've got a mess to clean the next time you change it. and if it's kinda hard to get to for cleaning at all then it's really not pretty. other than that i usually go by what was on there. a gasket gets a gasket and permatex or whatever gets just that, unless i know there is supposed to be a gasket and something else was used and is/was leaking.

 

you can cut your own gaskets for things like carb bowls, intake manifold boots, etc.... i did and they work fine.

more complicated or important gaskets should probably be purchased (valve cover gasket, head gasket, etc.)

 

FastMaxim82, i just finished removing the gasket's remnants off the shifter cover. not a walk on the beach, i tell you... but clutch cover is silicon'ed. and it's next. so, i guess, i'll have a chance to see for myself how they compare, cleaning-wise.

moonfriedpotatoes, do you recomend any particular material?

 

when referring to the sealing properties......the RTV is fine when prepped and applied properly.

there are some places that the gasket doubles as a shim, and NEEDS to be there to keep clearances correct.

now i cant tell you about whats safe on an xj, as i havent done anything but carbs on mine.

 

I don't do it. I will get the right gaskets before I do the job. Silicone tends to leak after exposure to heat and oil over a long time. I can't tolerate even small leaks on my bike, I'm a little strange when it comes to that. Don't use it for any fuel related seals, it will leak.

 

False !

go to the parts store get the stuff call " THE RIGHT STUFF" gasket making material comes in spray can like cheese wiz or get the tube and use like chalking.

 

when you split the cases there's no gasket but there's never been one there either
RTV wouldn't be my first choice though, maybe yamabond 4 or something like that
cut yourself some gaskets from a cereal box

 

Permatex makes a Yamabond equivalent. It's grey and a LOT cheaper.

 

The PO of my maxim used blue silicone gasket materials for the gaskets, was always wondering why it seemed like my oil pressure was low until i disassembled the engine, the pickup screen was completely caked with the blue silicone, i personnally wouldnt use it~!

 

Jswag5, you have discovered why I don't recommend anyone use it for that exact reason.
Education is key. A thin film is all that is needed as you don't want the RTV to goop up internals. I can't tell you how many engines I have looked at for folks that tell me "I can't figure out why my oil/water temp is too high" or "the engine makes a weird noise". I've found that the adage "a little goes a long way" applies. If you must use it, use it sparingly and remember, what squishes out on the outside most likely will be the same inside.
And be grateful JS, you found RTV because someone tried to fix something up. I found rocks in my FZR oil pickup along with the aluminum foil the idiot P.O. used to JB weld the oil pump cover crack after he dumped it. Thankfully, it wasn't ridden afterwards as the upper end and crank bearings were spotless.

 

Gaskets are there for a reason and cheap. RTV has its (limited) applications; it's NOT for gasketless-sealed surfaces, like putting the cases back together. If the book recommends Yamabond, then the EQUIVALENT like the Permatex is certainly acceptable.

Best practice, especially on these old bikes, is to plan to replace the gasket the FIRST time you disturb that component. Then "glue" your new gasket to the case with gasket sealer (I use nothing but the high-tack spray type) and smear the other side with silicone lube or grease or gear oil or even vaseline. Henceforth, when you remove that cover, you will be able to reuse the gasket. Properly torqued you do not need gasket sealer on both sides. Do it right the first time and forget it, it will never leak. Cut corners and you'll have to keep messing with it. I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than an $8 clutch cover gasket.

 

^^^Kin Ah git an AMEN brutha?!

 

every single class 8 truck on the road in the USA has the transmission cases and drive axle cases sealed with gray or black RTV. mistubishi-fuso uses gray rtv or red "threebond", wich is much better than rtv but its somewhat permanent. its all in the prepwork. it must be applied in VERY SMALL QUANTITIES, on perfectly dry and clean surfaces.

 

I said, it has its (limited) applications and that is true. My old Dodge Grand Blimp had no gasket on the cover on the left end of the trans, just the black adhesive RTV it was glued on with.

The engineers didn't design it with a gasket there, so none was needed.

I'm simply advocating NOT trying to out-engineer the Yamaha engineers.

I don't know about you, but when I'm playing bumper-tag at 85mph with trucks on I-94 in rush hour, I don't want to have to even THINK about the bike. I need to be 110% sure my sh*t is 100% straight all the time so I don't cut corners when it comes to my bikes, it's simply not worth it in the long run.

 

whats the name/number of that Permatex ?
if you want a thin bead of sealer put what you think you'll need in the corner of a baggie, then snip off just enough of the corner off so you can squeeze it out
works good for 5 min epoxy too

 

Permatex website has a tab for motorcycles.
You will find it here: Products > Motorcycle > Gasketing > Gasket Makers > MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey.
All kinds of goodies there.

 

Bigfitz Let it go let them do the job the way they want. i don't understand why they come here for advice when they refute it . so let them be its not worth the high blood pressure but will be worth a ton of laughs down the road.

 

suzuki has some great stuff for cases, although im pretty sure its the Permatex in a rebadged container.

 

FWIW, I tried to make a shifter cover gasket out of "gasket paper" and it was a colossal waste of time. I wonder why you want to know. You might have a 5.00 tube of gasket maker there, but the wonder of it not working,the mess from the teardown, cleanup of the old seal, cleanup from smearing gasket maker all over, and possibly having to do again... well it is not worth the time. I had to order the gasket for a few dollars and days wait more, and it was SO worth it. If it was made to have a gasket, I'd get one. Shortcuts are just that, some thing usually comes up short in the end.
NTgirl

 

I had/have a case where Very High Temperature RTV gasket maker was the only thing I could find that would halt an oil leak. I had a pretty good oil leak coming out from around the generator/stator/rotor cover.

Inserted into the back wall of the stator/rotor casing of a Maxim-X is what the manual calls an oil nozzle. It's held in place by a "wing" on the bearing/shaft housing. Best I can figure from my newbie bike knowledge is that it diverts oil onto an internal chain. I replaced the rotor shaft oil seal and that didn't stop the leak (didn't even seem to make a dent). To figure out where it was coming from I went out and rode it until it was very hot and opened up the cover (ouch on those finger tips!). I dabbed around with a q-tip on the back wall and discovered the oil was exiting around the nozzle.

I started by replacing the nozzle's o-ring. Some improvement but not much. I finally had to add a little (very very little) RTV to to the contact surface between the nozzle and wall and let it cure for 48 hours. It seems to have done the trick. Hope I didn't do the wrong thing.

But since I fixed the leak it occured to me (belatedly) that I also switched from 10W-30 to 10W-40 weight because the Yamaha dealership quit carrying the 10W-30 insisting the 40 was Yamaha's new recommendation. 40 would be thinner than 30 at operating temperatures right? Maybe the clearances wouldn't support the thinner oil hence the leak? Hard to imagine it would make that much different but..does make me go hmm.....

Artie(RT)

 

MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey

 

I have to believe that Yamaha Bond (any number) is a Product Yamaha outsources to a company that makes the stuff under another name and color.

I know Yamaha isn't in the Oil Business ... so, I don't but their Oil.

Also take into consideration. The instructions to use YamaBond-4 were written into those Manuals back in 1983 (or earlier). Since then, there have been some amazing developments leading to Sealants and Adhesives that can do some pretty amazing things.

 

I'd have agree about the technology of new products. I've been making my own paper gaskets (when applicable) out of cereal box cardboard or gasket paper with good results for years now. I use RTV sealer in most cases and it works well if used properly. I hand tighten the bolts and let the sealant cure for 1/2 hour and then go back and tightenthe bolts to specs. The important part is to only use enough to seal and not over do it so it seeps inside the engine and start clogging things up.
Another product I swear by is Goop Automotive sealant. This stuff works like nothing I've ever used. There are several types you can buy but they are all great. They sell Shoe Goop, Household Goop, Automotive Goop, etc..
I had a bad oil pan gasket that was actually coming out and the oil literally ran out of the engine when it ran. I just losened the bolts and pulled the short section of gasket out the side of the oil pan, cleaned the surface off with brake cleaner and ran a bead of Goop along the surface of the oil pan that mates with the engine block and let it sit for 15 minutes (it sets alot faster than silicone) Then I tightened the bolts and WALLA! It never leaked a drop since. It does things that other stuff won't.
I am not a spokesman for the company or a saleman, just a satisfied customer. I used Goop for the past 10 years or so on all kinds of projects and it never ceases to amaze me.
I made an aluminum box out of an old stop sign with Goop holding the corners together, no bolts, screws etc. just Goop. I let it sit over night and the next day filled it with water with NO LEAKS! That aluminum boz is now the livewell in my boat. That was over 10 years ago and it still doesn't leak. It's amazing stuff to say the least. It dries but stays flexable, but alot harder than silicone.

 

PainterD,

how about clean up? is goop easy to remove?

 

Yes, it removes with a sharp putty knife to get started,then peel it off like a rubber gasket.
To experiment with it, you should just squeeze out a little on a piece of aluminum or steel a let it sit there over night. The next day, try to remove it and see what the consistancy of this stuff is, you'll be impressed. I wouldn't be afraid to use it in place fo a valve cover gasket, as I'm confident it would work with no leaks. My old gasket was still good, so I re-used it.
It's been holding my tail light on for the past year with no problems. The nice part about it is it's holding power. It like having something rubber mounted. And when you want to remove it, just pull hard and it comes off.
When I replaced the section of oil pan gasket in my old pickup, I was impressed how well it held.
I once used it to plug a 2" hole in the fender of an old car, just to see how it held up. The Goop held up and was still like hard rubber when I finally tried to peal it off... 10 years later!!
It's what I used to make Unifoam air filters for all my vehicles. I remove the paper from the stock air cleaner and replace it with Unifoam, using Goop to glue it in place. I never buy air filters for any of my vehicles anymore thanks to Goop. And another good thing about it is, it's isn't expensive like other sealants. I think I usually pay about $3.50 for a tube as big as a large tube of tooth paste, which does alot of projects.

 

Artie:

The 10w-40 would be thicker at high temperatures than 10w-30, not thinner.

Smaller numbers = thinner, larger numbers=thicker (think 90w gear oil).

So I don't think the oil switch had anything to do with your leak developing.

Stay safe-
Herb

P.S. I lived in Garner, NC back in '87-'89 while getting my M.S. at NC State. Beautiful area and lots of fond memories!

 

yamabond to re-seal my case halves only ran me like $3.50 from the local yammy dealer. Just an FYI, definately worth a phonecall. We used it everywhere that didnt have a gasket when we dis-assembled.

For the price, I couldn't argue. I wouldn't pay what I've heard some people getting stuck with though, for the yamabond. I've heard of some dealers wanting $10+ for a single tube.