'85 XJ700 Maxim X Water Pump trouble

The radiator is cooler when there is no rattle and hotter with the rattle. But it doesn't seem to overheat when the rattle is not there. The gauge will read over the line, and then the fan kicks on and the temp goes down. When the rattle is present, the radiator gets really hot and the fan still comes on, but the engine will not cool down, even while driving. This weekend I will change out the thermostat and see if there is a difference rattle or not. If the bike cools with the new thermostat and the rattle, then I'll know the pump is working and it was just the thermostat. But if not, I'll know it's the pump. At least that's the theory. But I'll still need to figure out what's causing the rattle. With some luck, replacing the thermostat will stop the rattling in the water pump.

Let me know if you guys thinks this makes sense, or is a possibility. Like I said, I'm gonna try it this weekend and see anyway, but I like to read your opinions.

 

Sounds like the rattle may be the plastic pump gear trying to catch like DesignerMike mentioned. I would take it that when there is no rattle, it's not pumping fluid. Replacing the thermostat is a PITA. It would be easier to pull the small side cover off of the pump and have a peek first. Sounds like you are going to end up working on the pump regardless.

 

Ok, I had to take the whole thermostat housing off the bike to get the thermostat out. It is a PITA! One of the bolts that keeps the housing shut, seized and no matter what I try, I can't get it out. However, I did manage to get the thermostat itself out of the housing. I tested it (the old thermostat) in boiling water, and it works. I did buy the Motorad 2040-180 at Oreilly's and it does fit. Tomorrow, I get to put the thermostat housing with the new thermostat back on the bike, I bet it will suck. Once I do that and drive it around, I will see if it still overheats or not.

The pump still rattles, but not as often. And it seems like the harder I drive the bike, the better it works. Also, the rattling is not as loud as it has been. I have yet to look at the drive sprockets. I have also noticed the the rattle will sometimes stop if I make a left turn. Leading me to believe the the drive sprocket must be loose inside the pump.

 

Got the thermostat housing back on with the Motorad 2040-180 installed. Now, the thermostat housing is leaking. Looks like it will have to be replaced. Also, now the fan isn't coming on. So I need to know which wires control the fan. There were a couple of wires plugged into the housing and I got them all plugged back in where they go, but still no fan.

I also took off the cover and inspected the gears to the water pump. I found that the drive shaft that is connected to the lower metal sprocket (gear) is loose. Because of this, the gear is extended past the plastic gear and therefore not engaging it. I can physically push it in and out, but I can't pull it out completely. So the rattling has to be that gear turning and hitting the cover. Both of the gears look good though, and not worn or chewed up.

So I'm thinking that I need a new thermostat housing and a new drive shaft for the water pump. I also need to figure out how to get the fan working again. I rode it today, but I couldn't get very far with out it overheating. Bummer. I'm thinking I should have just left it alone so at least I could ride.

 

That sux...but at least you are figuring out the problem.

Thermostat housing: where's it leaking?? I would try just a smidge of silicone on the two mating faces. It's not the best option, but you don't have a lot of other options without a new housing.

Fan switch> I BELIEVE there is a ground wire hooked up to the therm housing. IIRC, the high temp switch actually switches the ground side of the fan. There is one big sensor with two flat wires hooked up to it (they are for the temp gauge).
There is one small sensor with a single round connector. This is the fan switch. Make sure you have a good connection with the wire. I believe you could test the fan circuit by simply grounding this wire.

Drive shaft> Did you take the metal gear off the shaft to confirm the collar is behind it? Is the bolt holding the gear onto the shaft tight?
That shaft does "float" until the gear and collar are tightened against the bearing behind it. The fact that the shaft would not come out is GOOD. I personally haven't seen how it is held in there, but I know mine all float around until you tighten the gear and collar.
Glad to hear the gears appear to be OK.

Take the gear off and tell me what's behind it.
Once the gear is off, can you spin the shaft by hand?
How far does it move (in and out)?

I don't think changing the shaft is easy AT ALL>> The other end is burried in the generator drive end. I've never been in there so no suggestions if you actually do need a new shaft.
I do know that if you take the clutch cover off, the shaft floats up and down quite a bit (thus the need for the bearing in the clutch cover)

I have a parts motor torn down, and I could probably pop off the clutch cover in no-time to take a look for you.
And yes, I have the parts you would need.

 

Designer Mike, I can't thank you enough for your help. I didn't know that the shaft was supposed to float, so that makes me feel better. I did take out the bolt that holds the gear in place, but couldn't get the gear off. I didn't try that hard to get it off though. I couldn't see behind it. The shaft has a little play when you try to turn it by hand, but it won't turn much. Although I was trying to turn it by grabbing the gear. Should the gear just pop off when undoing the bolt?

I thought that ground wire might be the culprit for the fan problem, and I did readjust it, but maybe not enough. Thank you for telling me which wires are which. The gauge works, so I got those wires where they go, but the connections to the fan may not be good. I think I might not have it grounded right.

I found other thermostat housings on ebay for $20 bucks, so that may be the route I go, unless you have one for cheaper and in good condition. I was trying to get everything fixed for a rally this coming Saturday, but it looks like I won't get to go.

Thanks for your help! I will post more when I know more.

 

Yes, once you take the bolt out, the gear should slide right off.
With the bolt tight, that shaft shouldn't float (the collar and gear hold it tight against the bearing)...so if it floats with the gear and bolt tight, you are most likely either missing the collar or the other end has come loose.

I have two housings, but they aren't pretty. BUT are functional.

For clarification since I skipped it, I believe there is a ground wire that bolts onto the housing mount bolt (black with a right terminal)...or at least mine's that way.
And the single post sensor has a pop-on wire. IF you ground the pop-on wire, the fan should spin I think. There is also a three-prong connector just before it goes back into the harness. The fact that the gauge works means it's still plugged in, but possibly that post is corroded. (doubtful)

The fan connector is in that same bundle so you might have disconnected it by accident. Black two prong.

You got a lot of time before Saturday. No worries (YET)

If the shaft is loose on the other end, they you have bigger problems that will require removing the clutch cover at a minimum....which also means pulling the water pump and all the cooling lines. Keep your fingers cross you don't have to do that!

Take pics if you can!

 

You have a PM. I have an extra thermostat housing.

Before you go that route, pull the thermostat housing off again and make sure you have the o-ring seated right. There is a ridge for it and it has to be seated right to seal. If you popped in the new thermostat and did not pull the o-ring off of the old one, that is your problem.

Sorry Mike, just noticed that you offered up some extra's too...

 

It has nothing to do with the O-ring, I made sure the new thermostat was properly installed. It's got to be because of that bolt/screw that wouldn't come out. It is litterally a piece of the housing and won't come out. I tried using my special tools for getting out stripped bolts/screws to get it out, but I couldn't get it. The head of the bolt/screw came off, and I believe the rest of it is rusted to the housing. I will have to get a new housing regardless, but I am going to try using some silicon to get me by.

I'm starting to wish this was the air cooled model!

 

I will try to take a video of it with my phone and post it on youtube.com for you guys to see what's going on with the water pump. I will post the link to the video when I can get it up.

 

I got a good look at how it sits on the inside.
It floats in a square-ish drive and won't come out because it has a shoulder behind the clutch housing.
There is another shoulder on the shaft where it goes through the clutch housing and the bearing in the housing keeps it located in place.

Also, there is a bolt behind the gear that holds the cover to the crankcase, BUT that bolt has a large flat washer that also holds the bearing from coming out SO, it is possible that large flat washer is also missing and letting the bearing slide out. That is very possible since when the shaft slides out, the shoulder inside will hit the clutch basket and make a serious rattle.
Pretty hard to explain without pics so I'lll have to open the cover of a engine in one piece and take some pics.

 

Thank you so much for going through all this for me, man. It has been kinda wet here in Tulsa, so I'm having trouble finding time to get out and work on my bike and take pics. But I'll get some as soon as I can.

 

Ok, here's the latest. I put silicon around the gap of the thermostat housing and it seemed to be holding, until I checked it today and there is a small leak. However, the bike will not start now. It turns over, but won't start. With the thermostat housing being located where it is, I know some coolant dripped on to the engine. I think some of the coolant went down into the spark plugs on the left two cylinders. However, I don't have the right size socket to take the spark plugs out (yet), but the boots were a bit wet and I can see some moisture sitting on top of the plugs. It resembles a light morning dew.

Today after work I'm gonna get some pics and maybe a video seeing as how it's really nice today. Hopefully you will be able to hear the engine and know what's keeping it from firing up.

 

The sparkplugs should take a 18mm (deep well) socket

If there is water collecting around the plugs she won't be happy.
If you take the engine head covers off the side (item 8 & 9 on the cylinder parts list)
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... 3sch514774

There is a small drain hole (about 3/16" diamter) that goes all the way into the inner spark plug well to allow any water to drain.
If the drain hole is plugged up, the plug well will fill with water and the plug won't fire under water!

I haven't had a chance to upload the other pics I took of the water pump drive. (sorry)

 

Ok, so here are a couple of pics of the metal gear to the water pump. You can see how it is extended past the plastic gear. In the video you can see how the shaft that it's connected to floats around. I can push it in, pull it out, and move it in any direction. But, it is locked to a point that I can not pull it out. Also, you can see in the video that the gear doesn't look like it is on the shaft all the way. It looks like it needs to be pushed on to the shaft more.

I also try starting the bike so you can hear what it sounds like when turning over. I am getting ready to take the cylinder covers off after I finish typing.

Sorry for the poor quality of the video, but I only have my phone to record digital videos.


http://xjbikes.com/coppermine/displayim ... ize=1.html

http://xjbikes.com/coppermine/displayim ... ize=1.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvxbtTvpLDA

 

All I have to get the covers off the cylinders is an allen wrench. The bolts are on there very tight, and painted over. I can't get them loose.

It's getting to the point where I am considering selling this bike and buying a new one, or buying a new air-cooled motor for it! Frustrating. lol

 

Wow...it looks like the bearing behind the gear is shot and/or not held in place properly.

When I said "float" I meant in and out...not all around!

Sorry...but I'd say BAD NEWS at this point.

Take the bolt out of the center of the gear and slip it off.
Take a photo with gear off (I guarantee you will be bummed)

I'll bet my paycheck that the bolt holding the bearing into the housing is either gone or the washer is gone.

Here's a slideshow of what you should find and I'm sure you won't find.
http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll16 ... ce3311.pbw

Surf the album on photobucket too to read all the comments I posted. You can also see the full size high res photos.

Now, it's possible that just the bearing is destroyed. (that would almost be better).
BUT I will guess that the recess where the bearing is supposed to reside is all chewed up (or both actually).

If the housing is killed, you have some work ahead of you.
The cooling lines and water pump will all have to come off.
Then pull the clutch cover and you will most likely have to replace the clutch cover if it got chewed up.
I have a spare!

Too bad you are so far away or I'd suggest you trailer it over and we fix it here.

Do you have a buddy with some garage space. This will probably be a difficult repair in a parking lot.

P.S. It would be a BITCH to put an air-cooled in there I'm afraid.
Don't worry...you'll get it fixed.

 

The gear doesn't want to come off, and I'm afraid to pry real hard to get it off. I don't know if I can fix it, maybe I should just sell the thing. I have a ton of stuff going on right now, little money, and not very good tools. I think I'm screwed. Surely there is someone out there that is looking for a project bike. It does have full coverage insurance on it though, maybe I can file a claim?!?!

P.s. Your link to the slide show doesn't work.

(Sigh)

 

Try it again. There seems to be a problem with posting the link if I'm logged into photobucket at the same time.

If you try to pry the gear off, use two screwdrivers on opposite sides of the gear.

Hate to see you sell it.
But you'll need to do it yourself or the shop will whack you for the job.

Other members would have to chime in with some garage space or time to help.

Unfortunately my shop and parts are 1300 miles away.

 

I haven't been able to get the cylinder head covers off to look at the drain hole. All I have are simple allen wrenches, and the bolts are too tight. I have been able to pull the spark plugs and they do have spark, but one or two are pretty wet. She still won't start, but acts like she wants to. It seems she is really close to starting. It's very frustrating.