Starter Clutch?

The bike is a 1983 Seca Turbo. Anyway, when I hit the starter, I will hear the solenoid start to get going. Then, a matter of seconds later, the generator starts binding. If I throttle up and kinda nurse it lightly, I can usually get the bike started. If I push start it, I can usually get it up and going, but not always. The longer I'm at the starter, trying to get it to turn over, the more the generator does that. I took off the cover, and when I hit the starter, it'll spin fine, and then after a second or so you can just see it turning back and forth inside the case. I'm not particularily experienced with the bike, but I do know that this just started when I put in a brand new battery. The old battery wasn't getting charged by the alternator and wasn't holding a charge real well, so I had to replace it. As soon as I put in this new battery, this is what has started happening.

Sorry for the long explaination to what is probably a short trouble. Any help?

 

Brushes!

You need to check the spec's on BOTH set of brushes. Alternator and Starter.

We just had this issue pop-up not long ago ... I can't find the thread. Nevertheless, when symptoms such as your begin ... the first thing to do is chech the alternator brushes.

Peek at the Starter Brushes. There is a good chance that those brushes are going to need to be serviced, too.

If there is a great deal of carbon dust on the brush holder ... use a commercial Electronic Parts - Contact ReNew spray on them to clean-out that whole space; and get a good look at the brush.

If you see that the Brush Tension Spring is beyond the half-way point within the cut-out for its travel allowing spring-load on the brush -- you'll need some new brushes for the starter; too.

 

For the starter, those would be the brushes in the starter motor, just next to the generator. Correct?

 

Yes. Before you remove the two screws which hold the Starter Motor together ... look at the indented "Tabs" on the motor's outside case. Notice that there are 3-Pair of "two" ... and, one other. The lone indent on the case is the line-up tab. The brush holding plate lines-up with this tab to be correctly placed and allow the geared-end and electric-end to fit the outside case correctly for reassembly.

The geared-end comes off and goes-on without any difficulty. The electric side is a different story. There's not much slack (if any at all) from the power supply posts wire to the brush. The power-end comes off by lifting away the brush plate and case end -- together!

It will be necessary to un-solder the wires from the bracket. Detaching the threaded power supply post seems easy enough. The 10 mm hex nut holding the power post secure is easily removed.

BUT -- if you have not inspected the way that the power post's insulator is oriented to the inside of the end case ... proper alignment of this insulator and the post IS NOT shown on the exploded diagram.

The tab at the bottom of the Threaded Power Supply Post needs to be lined-up at "3-O'clock" -- parallel to the brush holder.

Make the observation as to how the power post is attached to the inside of the electric-side case BEFORE you undo the hex nut. It is deliberately designed to prevent the wire from being slack and possibly being chafed and dead-shorted by the rotation of the starter.

Incorrectly reattaching the power post will allow the soldered end to contact the brush plate -- creating a dead-short unprotected by a fuse -- burning-out the end of the power-post and possibly scorching the commutator.

 

The wording is a bit hard to follow , "generator starts binding"?.

anyways if its the starter clutch the noises will be like this...... push starter button starter grabs , engine turn over maybe once or half a turn or sometimes 2 or more [variable] turns , then the starter will wizz [freewheel] then a sort of rattly/crunchy like glass marbles rubbing together in a tin noise untill let go starter button...

also when push starter button the time delay of hearing the selonoid click and motor turning should be nearly imperceptable...ie:quick

hope this helps....

 

The noise you described was exactly what it sounds like. And no, there isn't a delay in when I hear the motor turning over. Instead, the delay is when I hear the generator start to make that sound. Sometimes, it'll start up, almost not making that sound at all. Other times, it will rattle like hell and won't start at all unless I push start it or wait for a minute.

 

there you go again , whats is your generator?

my first impession is the starter clutch by the way you say the symptoms , try a cupla things first , make sure batt voltage is ok , and the ground , did you notice it starts ok when hot? the next day when cold does the noise thingy? , if so to the last question , tis unfortunate but there's no way around it but to dig inside the motor to fix the clutch....

just make sure you eliminate all other stuff and end up with the one thats left over......

 

I think yoiu got it HooNz, I can't picture noises from the generator!

 

Bad solenoid.

Do the test for possible bad solenoid.

Use a HEAVY gauge wire and short the two MAIN terminals on the solenoid.

Betcha the STARTER spins, engages, and the start system is OK.

Pushin' my chips "All-in" on this one ... been there; done that!

 

If the bike starts fine hot then I would suspect sludge in the starter clutch. The starter clutch is a centrifugal clutch that releases when spinning. When cold the sludge is hesitant to release the clutch bearings. When hot the sludge is soft and released them. So the easy fix is to run a can of Seafoam through the crankcase running the bike at idle until warm. Put the bike on the center stand and run through the gears a few times. Then drain the oil and change the filter. Good idea to pull and drain the middle gear drain plug also. Put in fresh oil and filter and see what goes.

 

The post by BlueMaxim about the sludge is an interesting one. The other day, I did find that there was a lot of grime and such on the brushes and magnets of the generator. I'm willing to bet that that is what is causing me problems. I don't know though. Tonight, I was riding the bike quite a bit, but I turned it off. I turned it on again, and rode for a few minutes. I stopped to have a look at something on the side of the road. And, when I tried to start it this time, it wouldn't go at all. It didn't even sound like the motor was catching. The solenoid would click and click but nothing was catching. So, I started walking the bike home. After pushing the bike for around 2 miles, I tried push starting it on some hills. After the third hill or so, the bike just barely got going, and then just revved up. I didn't dare stop the bike, I just revved the throttle and drove it the remaining 2 miles or so home. The whole way it sounded fine, but I have a feeling when I tear it apart tomorrow I won't be happy with what I see.

 

I'd begin with an inspection of your alternator brushes. If the alternator has a problem ... and, ain't in the game ... the problem snowballs and leads to people blaming everything, including bad gas, for causing the troubles.

Bad alternator brushes ... no battery charging ... pulling juice off battery; not system ... weak amp load from bike running off the limited battery power ... no starting amps when needed ... not enough juice for "Immediate response" when starter button depressed ... not nearly enough to keep the contacts closed on the solenoil (clicking) ... and, simply not enough amps to crank the starter and start the bike.

Brushes; Alternator / starter.
Wire harness contacts / damage; loom to Volt. Regulator (look at red wire for excess heat damage / melted plastic connector from being jump- started off car battery with car's engine running)
Starter brushes: contaminated with dust -- clean.
Loose connections; battery -- main Ground.

Last, but not least -- standard fuse panel issues attributed to effectof time and corrosion on fuse holders.

 

i give up on the wording on this one....

what the @#$%^@#! is your generator?????????????

now its a click click click, read the first post..

you guys sort im out....

 

The generator is just the alternator, but in the Yamaha parts documents, it has it listed as the generator.

 

Look closely at some of YAMAHA's Official Workshop Manuals for various bikes -- in the electrical trouble-shooting section for:

"Voltage R-e-g-u-l-a-t-o-r" ... and, you'll find their Japanese accent in the discription of some components ... like:

R-e-g-u-r-a-t-o-r ; Voltage !!! lol

Yamaha Factory WorkShop Manual - 1983 XJ900RK USA

 

Generators generate direct current, Alternators develop alternating current. Simple but very different. I would be at a loss to explain why the engineers at Yamaha screwed it up, but it is by no means the only translational error in the industry.

 

My guess is that when he's saying "Generator" ... what he means to say is "Armature."

 

It calls that the generator. And I'm pretty damned sure it's the alternator.

 

Yes, but without looking in the manual I think the generator/alternator shaft is also shared with the starter clutch.

Can explain noises in one that may be from the other.

 

I think a generator also makes alternating current. Alternators make 3 phase alternating current, generators typically are 1 phase. For direct current you'd need like a ... battery ...
Cool.
Srinath.