On tragic events ...

I don't want to clutter the thread of the passing of Bill with a lot of things not related to remembering and honoring him so I am posting this separately.

In a post responding to what Rick had said, I had removed a part of his original post to share my thoughts.

This caused some ruffled feathers and I hastily corrected the omission along with expressing my sincere apologies.

I was writing some additional things on where I was coming from and why. As I wrote, I thought this was worth sharing with the rest of the group. For those who have not already caught on, I have a solid, decidedly Christian faith perspective and am writing from that. For those of you of other faiths/beliefs, feel free to disregard.

I intend no insult to Rick at all in snipping from his post. I didn't understand how he intended the two pieces to connect and I wanted to voice my understanding contrary to what I thought he was saying, thus my focus on the first part and the last "quote".

With that last quote, I hate it when tragedy happens and people shake their heads saying it was God's will, as though God brought it about, and that even though God had a reason for the events/loss, his ways are mysterious and incomprehensible to us.

That is thought which I saw behind what Rick wrote, and I *KNOW* with all my heart that God does not cause these things, He does not visit ill upon His children. Such is antithetical to who He is, to His love for us. That is why I spoke of the platitudes that so many offer. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

But these things do occur. We ask, we cry, we beseech God "WHY???!!!"

For those of us who know God, who have truly sought His will and desire, we know that God is not why. It is not something that God did. It is something we did, and it pains Him to watch our pain even as we ache for the child we have raised from an infant when they are hurt or suffering. God does promise us though, that He will use all of these things, big and small, somehow, for our good and the Glory of his kingdom.

So the answer of "why" is that someone did something resulting in a series of inevitable consequences. And we have to accept that, even though it hurts in the middle of it all.

One of the first times I ever had to deal with a tragedy in any sort of personal way, was through a friend of mine. He was a company commander of a mechanized infantry unit and the wife and babies of one of his service members had been killed because someone had t-boned their vehicle, causing it to slide off of the road, roll and end up on its roof, in a shallow stream. The mother, unconscious, was unable to assist the uninjured children secured in their child safety seats, and all drowned. As commanding officer, it was his job to break the news to the service member. He shared with me his thoughts and struggles as he prepared for the soldier's arrival. As a person of faith, he knew the "Christian" perspective, but he didn't know the faith of his service member and this was the first time for him to deliver such news.

How to tell this young man that his wife and children were gone because of the careless disregard of someone who was able to walk away from the tragedy they caused? That situation led me to a lot of contemplation and study of such things, the nature of Evil, the nature of evil, and God's response thereto. Ultimately I understood that there is true Evil in the world where agencies deliberately cause death and suffering of others and that God is not to be blamed. I found that there is the evil we perpetrate upon our selves, not intending harm, but simply the consequences visited upon us by our own actions and choices, and God is still not to blame. God's response to this is to join us in our suffering and to redeem these things for our benefit and His glory.

So when I hear that phrase, "God works in mysterious ways" my heart cringes to hear God being blamed for such things when He is blameless and is just as hurt as the rest of us. What is incomprehensible to me is how God can be so close to all of our pain, each and everyone of us, and yet remain rational and not simply "delete" all this pain from His creation.

Warm regards to all,
Michael

 

At the end are you asking why God allows pain and suffering?

 

No, I am not. The answer I have found is that if God were to step in and protect us from all these things, particularly the things that we choose to do, then first we would never mature and second, we would be stripped of our free will, something that is an innate part of who and what God created us to be.

A very short synopsis of what I understand to be a fairly revolutionary understanding of Genesis and the creation narrative.

He Hebrew preposition which is normally translated as "in", as in "man created in the image of God" can also be translated as "as", as in "man created *as * the image of God. Instead of man being created to be a reflection, however tarnished as St. Augustine would have it, it means that we are to BE God to the world around us. Now lest someone misunderstand and go off thinking I am saying we are all our own gods, or other such silliness, if you look at more of the Creation narrative, what is God's commission to man? He says that we are to be the caretakers of this piece of God's creation. We are given the responsibility of being God's stewards of Creation. We are to BE God, his agents, his representatives, just as the traditional role of an ambassador is to act as the ruler of one country visiting another. The ambassador is consider to be that ruler unless that ruler actually shows up. He has all the power, all the responsibilities of that monarch in the place he is visiting. An offense against him is taken as an offense to the actual crown. His actions and words are taken as the direct word of that monarch. That is the role we have to this world around us. That is the role we are to take with our fellow man: first and foremost to love them even as God loves us. God's answer to "Am I my brother's keeper(or caretaker)" is a resounding and definite "YES!"

So, while someone might say that "well, since you did this and you are God's ambassador, therefore God is to blame" such is not the case. If we are not following God's will, then we are acting ex officio, with authority, contrary to what we are supposed to do.

 

I'm agnostic, through and through... but I've said countless times that God is the biggest scapegoat man will ever know. But, I'm not sure of myself either way, maybe he is responsible somehow.

In the end, those with faith in something let it comfort them in whatever way they want. Faith really holds weight that way, which is why I don't question others' faith. I've come to terms with my own, and am comfortable with where I stand - If someone believes that the trials of life are God's will and may hold some outstanding result not to be seen by us on earth, let it be - so long as they are comfortable in their belief (and don't kill people or themselves on behalf of their god or church).

 

Do you believe in Absolutes?

 

I'm not really very familiar with what you mean by 'Absolutes', I was just wondering if you would care to define?

 

Absolutes are somthing that are fact, say mathmatics. 2+2=4= true
2+2=5 false,

It is Impossible for somthing to be true and non ture at the same time.

God either exists or he doesn’t exist, He can’t exist for me and not for you.

 

This sentence is false.

 

Care to explain? It is kind of interesting stuff.

 

Are you absolutly sure?

 

God's salvation is only attainable by His Grace thru Faith in what Jesus did on the cross , He wont give undiable proof, if that was the case people would respond with out faith and wouldnt believe thru faith.
Without faith it is impossible to please God. Heb 11:6
The gospel that if one wants to be saved all they have to do is believe in this gospel according to Paul the Apostle of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4

1Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you unless you believed in vain.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.

 

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