Awfully deep topic, if you're up for it.

First off, let me start off by saying that Bill has been in my thoughts since the accident information was posted. I followed the carepages site, and can't fathom the grief of the family. Things like this: you don't see them coming.

This morning (the morning of my birthday) I was awakened by a call from my mother, telling me that my 16 year old cousin (her sister's daughter) was found blue and dead in the morning. She just turned 16. We used to take her out to Chucky Cheese when she was younger, and celebrate our birthdays together. My mom just took her to a steak dinner a day or two ago. No word yet as to what happened. Things like this: you don't see them coming.

I've been finding things to do, it seems, to stay off the bike lately. As I mentioned, i had a dream (before the info about Bill) that I was in an accident and was wearing a fake face. A couple nights ago, I had another (vividly realistic) dream that I woke from a coma mentally and physically disabled. All my thoughts were the same, but my body would not cooperate. Nothing extraordinary, hospital beds, normal house, true to life scenarios - but it was a nightmare. I've always found pride in my intelligence above all else, and this would truly be a hellish scenario.

Today, for my birthday, I'm receiving my new riding gear as a result of my dreams, Bill, and the thoughts that follow (I'll post pics). As a thorough agnostic, I'm not big on the idea of predestination... I like to believe we're whole heartedly in control (until the oncoming left turn). Naturally, I'm a skeptic when it comes to most anything, though I doubt if there's many things I can't say I've experienced first hand in some strange irony.

To what extent do you guys listen to yourselves in this fashion? I almost canceled my plans to move to Texas when I was younger, because I had a reoccurring dream I died on the car ride there... On highway 174 outside of Cleburne. 174 wasn't even on route... until we missed 35W through FT. Worth and ended up on 35E through Dallas... So, you can imagine that I was insanely CAREFUL in this drive.

Just wanted to hear other thoughts and stories - I have to go to my parents now, but I know Ill be checking in later.

 

If had hear that 'voice' strongly enough, I will take heed and be extra vigilant. But then I don't have the same spiritual outlook as you and I don't want your thread to be locked ..so I'll just leave it at that..

 

I don't buy into predestination either. I do think though that we sometime dream about things that are on our minds. Most of the time it's just rubbish. You could be a bit preoccupied with death and injury or you've just had the misfortune of having a couple of scary rubbish dreams in a short amount of time.

You don't use nicotine replacement gum do you? Chewing a piece of that close to bedtime will often result in vivid dreams.

Now we all participate in a dangerous hobby/pastime/passion. Anyone who is doing this with his eyes wide open will be brought up short when a tragedy hits so close to home. Anyone who doesn't have second thoughts probably isn't seriously weighing the risks/rewards and could well be a danger to himself.

I will say this: Bill's tragedy has been more sobering for me than the crash I had when a car pulled out on me.

Now, I'd rest better if I thought Bill was drunk, speeding, driving recklessly without a helmet. Those kind of bikers are in the news almost daily. From his posts though I have the impression of a guy that always used the gear and was very safety conscious. Hits pretty close to home.

Bottom line though is if you're afraid don't ride. To be safe you need to be alert and always calculating. Respect for the risks help you do that, fear will distract you.

 

I once had a dream when I was a kid that I was sitting in the car at a local bank when it was being robbed. I peaked up over the top of the seat to see if I could get a glance at the robbers when all of the sudden I was shot in the eye. I woke up immediately and believe it or not had a pain in my eye. That was over 30 years ago, I never witnessed a bank robbery and the bank in my dreams was demolished 2-3 years ago.

Where I am headed is that dreams can really be kind of goofy. I have dreamed that I could jump over houses, could breath under water, had %ex with Fara Fawcett and was beaten up by Grover from Seasame Street. But guess what? None of that ever happened..... I really think that you are like most people that when something is really weighing on your mind you might end up have dreams realted to it.

Anyway, my birthday was on the 4th the same day that Bill left us. Yes it has really got me to thinking about OUR hobby and I can honestly say that it has re-sharpened my awareness when I am riding. It has also reminded me that I need to do everything in my power to not end up as Bill did.


Rob

 

Grover, Rob?
wow. now that is messed up!
:lol:

Right after my wreck, I had a few dreams about pulling glass from my neck and walking around asking people for help. But, they all kept driving by. I attributed the dreams to the pain meds they put me on to ease up the cracked ribs.
BTW, if you have never cracked ribs or broken them, the only thing that compares is child birth. I have never given birth, and if I do, it would be strange. But my wife assures me that the pain she saw me in when I sneezed was pretty close.
Back on topic....
I will honestly admit that I have no belief in a higher power. My beliefs lie more around how we came to be and not where we end up. When my time comes, it will come. there is no pre-determined path that will decide it for me. it will happen. hopefully quickly.
I respect everyone's beliefs on the matter of faith and religion, but I will gladly debate its merits.

hopefully I didnt cross the line and get this locked

 

Helmet! Are you some kind of weenie? A broken rib or two caused you pain? I once cracked, no fracture just cracked, 2 ribs on a camping trip. Thought I was going to freaking die! For months!!!

Looking back on it I guess the only time it hurt was when I breathed, sat still, walked , bent over, stood up, twisted to the left or right, and god forbid that I sneezed or coughed! Never mess with your ribs. You will regret it for months.

BTW My recurring dream is the jumper dream. I could jump over cars trees houses. It's a great dream! Kind of superman-ish

Loren

 

Dude! Somethings seriously wrong with you. You're dreaming about %ex with an angel and you pick Farah Fawcett?



Jaclyn Smith is the only way to go!

She's north of 60 now and still pretty easy to look at.

I suppose you'd pick Ginger over Mary Anne too!

 

Kidney Stones take the cake. And yes, I've cracked (fractured), bruised and broken ribs (Tae Kwon Do when I was alot younger). Dreams are our subconscious running with the thoughts that are foremost on our mind, if we realize them or not. Things you see day to day and may not even realize could be locked inside, and stress causing your subconscious during REM (rapid eye movement, the stage of sleep where you have your most vivid dreams) to dig it all up and mash it together into one seemingly realistic hell.
Bill's tragedy has hit us all hard... and I'm new... I barely knew him at all. But he struck me as a mature and safe person... not someone riding recklessly and from all that I've read, he was riding the perfect picture of safety that morning. I've had my XS400 up on jacks waiting for me to finish the valves etc since I've heard, and I haven't been able to bring myself to touch it. I know this feeling will pass, it will just take time.
But I will never, ever forget Bill.

 

Carl, no doubt about it Jaclyn Smith is and always was a "super hero"

Smokin hot!

 

This isn't a dream, but try this all you non believers.
A few years ago I was at the shops with my wife & something kept touching my hand, almost like a stray thread, I kept checking & could see nothing, tried to ignor it but it was still there, I asked my wife to take a look & she could find nothing, but the feeling persisted.
When I got back to the car, where I had left my mobile, there was a message from my mother saying my father had had a fatal stroke.

 

Intuition comes to mind. Or instinct. Call it rider's intuition. The problem is, most times there's no way of knowing if you're right about leaving the bike home that day things just don't "feel" right. I did have something happen to me a month or so ago, that firmed up my belief that you should listen to that little voice in your head.

My wife and I were suppose to meet a group of riders down in Portland for a group ride. On the way to the meet up spot, my GPS crapped out and made it so we were unable to go. As it turns out, they were riding like a bunch of hooligans and ended up losing one of their riders. No one noticed even after they all met up for dinner. Poor guy had to drag himself to the roadside and flag down a car for help.

After my GPS crapped out, I took that as a "sign" to call it a day and head home. Sometimes you just got to accept the cascading obstructions as an indicator that you're not meant to go. Is there some higher force directing things? I personally don't think so. A wise person recognizes the signs and walks away. I guess I may be getting wiser the older I get. Who knows?

 

For the sake of being on pins and needles..
I do believe in ESP, and the paranormal. I believe you may have had a premonition of something to come Dian.

As far as the injuries... you men are all pansies... please.. I had three natural, yes natural, no drugs, child births and a C-Section (yes I had a spinal block I'm not THAT tough) and was back home doing laundry and breast feeding in two days. But road rash knocked me on my a$$ for about two weeks lol

BUT I agree a kidney stone has to be the worse pain a man could even compare to child birth. My boyfriend is a pretty tough guy, but I picked him off the floor of the bathroom while he writhed in pain and insisted I take him to the hospital. To find he had a kidney stone completely blocking his urethra and he had to have surgery on his... thing.

And Farrah Fawcett... why do they always go for the blonds! What about us brunettes?

 

For the record, brunettes are the only way to go in my opinion... and that brunette does have you all beat with the child birth.

No nicotine gum, ew. Haha.

My grandmother broke her arm when she fell down a flight of stairs trying to get to her husband in the basement because she thought something was wrong. He died of a heart attack. Same grandmother told my whole family that my mother was pregnant. She wasn't, but Goldie was excited for it (realistic dream). A short time later, she dies, coupled with my mom's discovery that she was pregnant. Just some food for thought.

I figure, the point of both dreams was that if I would have been protecting the head, I wouldn't have a fake face... and if that doesn't scare me, ending up short of what I am does. If it's premonition, I wear the gear - ride on - come to it and face it prepared. If it's fear - I wear the gear - ride on - and don't think twice about not having it. It's win win.

I appreciate the responses here, I can use some intellectual conversation after this bday. Trying to expedite my cousins autopsy to figure out why a 16 year old is found face down off of her bed with blood coming from her nose. As a parent of two girls, I think I can say that any emotional stability I may have would slip away upon that discovery. The thought alone almost rips it away.

 

That's exactly what I felt when I started to try and make sense of it.I would usually try to find a reason like the rider must have have been speeding or not wearing the gear.But this time it was just a guy riding to work like I do every morning,wearing the same gear I do,and even riding the same bike I do.It could easily be me.That's a sobering thought to say the least.

 

P.S. It's been a long day... I did get a shot taken of all the new gear, but my wife is tired, so I'll let her leave the photo uploading for later. Long day.

(It looks super badassed though, and I sporting the Yamaha logo and tuning forks like a Harley rider would sport a bar and shield.)

 

I did a lot of research on helmets before committing to anything... somewhat on a budget, I wanted to know exactly what was going into these things. I've come to many conclusions, but it's important to note that no rider has ever worn a helmet and died of head trauma BY ITSELF. Many injuries usually go into these things, and, just like in a fully loaded car with big fluffy air pillows popping out all over the place, if the accident is bad enough - there's nothing to do.

I think, one of our jobs as motorcycle riders, should be to get involved in educational programs for the caged drivers. One thing I appreciate about ABATE is the educational stance: the quick courses in high school drivers ed and advertising to try and put it on people's minds.

Can't fix stupid, but you can fix ignorance.

Everybody should look upon the worst of the worst when it comes to these things to drill it into their head that, maybe, just maybe, they need to look twice before pressing the gas. They did a good job of this when it came to things like trains affecting the driver of the cage, but they fail to really show what the driver can do to someone else. It's like holding the trigger of a .50 cal. blind folded.

 

Cheryl Ladd ws always my angel of choice. And as for Ginger or Mary Ann, who wouldn't have loved Mary Ann's coconut pies? The only Muppet I was ever afraid of was Animal, who was Tommy Lee before Tommy Lee was Tommy Lee.

But unlike TV shows where the storylines are already written waiting to be acted out, life is a crapshoot. None of us will get out alive. You can walk around in bubble wrap all day everyday trying to be as safe as you possibly can, but it only takes one small slip up from some careless twit to ruin it all. Or even worse yet, you can always take the safe route, eat the right stuff, exercise daily and do all the things they say will make you live longer. Then you get the call from the doctor that changes it all. There is no one to point the finger at for that one. Then we all know of the guy that smokes 3 packs a day, drinks himself silly every night, eats bacon every morning, and wouldn't know the difference between a crunch and a curl, yet is 65 years old and still going strong. I guess what I'm saying is, you can't stop living because you're scared of dying.

 

nice quote.

i also like, "as soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time"

 

DianCecht, on the topic of education, I think we should always be ambassadors for our sport. Whenever we see something that puts ourselves in danger we should call it out.

Case in point. I was riding home the other day from a group ride. As I was approaching this pretty decent hairpin, I looked across the valley at its exit. I saw a white Ford Explorer heading my direction at what appeared to be a high rate of speed. Most of the exit is obscured by trees, but I just caught a glance of the other vehicle. Experience said to whoa things up a bit. Sure enough, as I dropped down to the corner, here comes the Explorer, leaned hard over, HALFWAY IN MY LANE.

Now, had I been riding like I usually do, I would have been right where the Explorer was. I would have been in a decent lean going around that corner, so one can only imagine the multitude of outcomes from that scenario. Needless to say, I think I chose the best one... given the circumstances. What did I do when the other driver went by? I wagged my left index finger at her, admonishing her for driving like a hooligan. She knew and I knew by the look on her face as I went by that I would have been killed if we had collided.

The same medicine goes for other riders. If I'm on a group ride and another rider crosses the double yellow on a corner we're going to have words at the next stop point. If I see another rider that I don't know acting like an asshat on the road putting others in danger (popping wheelies, weaving in and out of traffic, etc.) they're going to get the scolding-finger-wag-of-death waved at them. It's a simple gesture, but we ALL know what it means.

 

That to me was worth starting the thread. In internet L33T speak, we call that the SFWOD!!!

 

the only thing for certain is uncertainty! live life full throttle.

 

You know I'm not sold on predesigned fate... if that was the case why would we be given free will? What I do know about Bill and his feelings/thoughts/beliefs is that he was solid in where he was going. Both in life and in death. It was his confidence in his belief that gave him confidence when he rode. I know this because this was the topic of a conversation we had about a month ago. I breeched the subject because as you suspected Bill was the careful one, me I was ,and struggling to change, the "wild child". Go figure the night before his accident I was pushing 125 mph and literally 12 hours later Bill was putting to work at 45. Any hoot the risk is real, are you prepared to accept it? Riding is a passion for many both Bill & I shared this passion. The day after his accident I got on my bike and rode, I did the same the day I got back from his memorial. Did i take pause, have some fear? sure I'm human and if I didn't I'd be crazy. I made these rides because I'm solid in my beliefs, I LOVE to ride, my wife supports this passion. After all as she said "the way you attack life be it boating, horseback riding or anything else that I enjoy I have risk. Take measure of your situation and minimize risk accordingly" Greeat wife!!well, as a great mind once said " that's all i have to say about that"(Forest Gump) Please don't let the thread digress into a pile of poop. keep it ride/motorcycle focused and supportive.
Thanks

 

DianCecht, the rule I follow is: if I have a bad feeling about it, I don't ride (or fly). I don't share any faith or religious belief, but my reasoning is that if I have a bad feeling about doing something, it's cause enough to stay away, if only because some prophecies can be self-fulfilling.

Although now an atheist, still I believe our subconscious mind can pick up things in ways not yet explainable with our current state of knowledge. So I try not to completely ignore my intuitions either. For instance, I think it happens sometimes that one can feel a close one dying far away. I have no problem with that. That said, I firmly believe nothing is predestined. So your dreams are probably simply an indication of your deeply felt awareness that riding, and even driving a car, is dangerous.

Bill's accident got me rattled too. Very much so. He was a safe driver I think. He had this thing they call a modulator on his headlight. The car driver says she didn't see him coming. I have a very hard time with that. I've been trying to figure how this accident could happen to me since the time it happened to Bill. Because I feel it could happen to me too. If it does one day, I would prefer to die than stay badly crippled for the rest of my life.

I've been saying to myself it's not possible that the car driver did not see Bill coming. So I've come up with two possibilities that I can accept. One is the driver was distracted. The other, the most probable I feel, is that the driver took the modulation of the headlight for a sign to make her turn. Up here it's often the case we will flash the lights to let someone know we see them and they can make their turn. Maybe that's what happened and the driver can't admit it out of shame. So I decided to wait some more on this modulator thing until I'm sure it can't create confusion with drivers around here.

Anyway, my point really is I'm worried about getting maimed one day, like in your dreams. But since it could happen simply by crossing the street, I'm going to keep taking some risks when I feel they are worthwhile. But I'm going to keep calculating them and try all the time to better my chances of avoiding the worst. If it gets too much of a pain doing that, I'll switch to something else that is more fun. And on a day I don't feel good about riding, I'll take the car instead - or stay home.

 

it's been 3 months since I laid down, and my ribs still hurt when I lay on them. if I do a lot of lifting, they hurt still.

my recurring dream is falling off a cliff or getting hit by a train.
when I was young, I had dreams I could fly like superman. they were so vivid that I woke up tingling. you know how your arms and arm hair feel after a long ride and the wind constantly hitting them.

 

I think our dreams are little more than A visual interpretation of our greatest hopes and our greatest fears and just like luck if we beleive in it enough or want it enough, or sadly if we fear it enough we can make it happen. my Dad says that "what if" is the most hindering thought that a person can have, it makes us pull back when we should go forward, it makes us settle for what is there instead of fighting for what we want, and it makes us aim for what we can live with, instead of chasing what we can't live without.
if you spend your life fearing the "what if's" you let your dreams control you when you should be controling your dreams. We know there is danger involved in what we do but we do it because we love it and really, what is the point of being here if we don't do the things that we love?
I like to think that Bill knew this and it was that which drove him to help so many people to be able to enjoy their projects, their xj's, and their lives and share in his passion in hopes that we would feel this drive and continue this cycle. People will be united by fear and by love, who do we want to unite ourselves with??
Shaun

 

The end result: Mind says: "where the damned helmet."
I wear the helmet, and ride free. There is something to be said for self-fulfilling prophecies.

I am a touch amazed at intuition's lack of defenders. I had a dream the other night that destroys the "greatest hopes and fears" explanation of dreams, though.

I pulled up to a gas station in my van. got gas. talked to the attendant. went back to my van. pulled away. fin.

That isn't the greatest anything... down right boring, it is!