Seafoam?

Just curious, I know everyone out here has a lot more experiance with this stuff but i just cleaned the carbs. And the bike WORKS NOW. but i was thinking of throwing in some seafoam for good measure. I have about half a bottle lying around. How much should I use? I have heard some people talking about a serious treatment of half a bottle to a reserve tank and others suggesting 1oz to 1 gallon?

Any Ideas? or should i just skip it since they were just cleaned?

 

I have done both the half bottle and the 1oz per gallon. At this point since you just cleaned your carbs, I would put about half of what you have left in the bottle in there. I did the same thing you are doing and it seemed to work out great. I even ran some thru my dirtbike due to a hanging idle, and it calmed it right down.

 

If the carbs are spotless and the gasoline is not old....put it in the crankcase.
After mixing it up, run the engine to mix it around and then change the oil.
I would avise doing this in the garage, and not on the road as the viscosity changes after adding the SF.
Its a better use that way than trying to clean already clean carbs

 

Crankcase? I like it! this stuff must be magic

 

typically, what I do is pull the tank, fire the bike up and let it pull some gas through. I will pour seafoam in while it is idling, until it really starts to choke out.
I let it sit for about 10-15 minutes... just long enough really to put the tank back on and wash my hands.
fire it up with the petcock on PRI.
it will run like ever-living crap for a few minutes, but it works great.

 

I bought my XJ a few months ago, and the performance was lacking.

Don't plan on working on the bike until fall/winter....so I thought I'd give teh seafoam a try.

It runs a little better now, but didn't completely fix anything.
My carbs need to be cleaned and sync'd....plain and simple.

I also tried some in the crankcase, and had good results.

 

DO NOT run the engine under load with SeaFoam-diluted oil in it.

Personally, although I do believe in it as an occasional fuel treatment/stabilizer, I would never put it in my crankcase. If I need to flush a crankcase I use cheap SAE20 oil.

 

I'm with Fitz. Sea Foam is not a "Cure All". In fact, if your carbs were just cleaned, why run Sea Foam in your fuel at all? I've used it to clean gum and varnish from carbs that have sat a little too long, but it will NOT clear a plugged pilot jet or free a stuck needle valve.

 

The reason to run it through freshly, properly cleaned carbs would be two-fold: there are some of those channels that are simply impossible to get into but not small enough to be readily blocked. Seafoam would help clear those out. You could easily have some varnish in the tank that needs to be cleaned out to avoid problems down the road. Few of us ever really get the damn things as surgically clean as they need, so this is a good way to get to the finishing touch.

You don't want to run it all the time. It isn't needed and some have said that routine/every tank use can actually cause damage to things like your intake boots and other non-metallic parts.

If you see a need to clean any gunk out of the crankcase, go ahead and do that, following Fritz's warning. Then, do a complete oil/filter change after the cleaning cycle. I would (and did) take that a step further and after using the seafoam and changing the filter, I ran a rinse of the cheapest clean oil that I could find to make certain that all of the seafoam and debris were cleared out, then checked the filter to make certain it is okay, and then did the final refill Now, if you are going to do all of this, why not go ahead and take the oil pan of and give it a good cleaning while you are at it? I didn't do that last step simply because I didn't want to deal with the gasket. <grin>

 

Thanks tumbleweed,
When I went home last night I tossed the rest of the seafoam in the tank. there wasnt much gas and I probably hit just over 1 oz to gallon. I was on the mind track of "My cleaning was good but not great" so hopefully it will be nothing more than some finnishing touches. Cleaning out the old oil I think would be a great Idea. I have to hit the parts store tonight anyway so, I will grab some cheap oil and I actually saved a bit of seafoam.

You mentioned taking off the oil pan, Isnt that what all that fuss was a little while back about sheared bolts. Or was that middle gear drain. Wheres the oil pan or will it be obvious?

After all this its fork seals, rear brakes, and levers. hopefully it will be a flawless fall(the season).

 

The oil pan is on the bottom of the motor and would require pulling the exhaust system.

The "fuss" over shearing the bolt(s) is (take your pick)
-middle gear drain
-intake manifolds
-crankcase gallery plugs

 

You know, when you buy SeaFoam, you're paying about $120/Gal for Naptha ??

 

Is that what Seafoam is? Naptha?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

Naptha is a term for a few different molecules, but I wonder if Coleman Fuel would have the same effect.

SeaFoam is (I think) 60 % Naptha, 40% "pale oil", an inert filler.
So, at $10 for 16 OZ , it's about a dollar an ounce. (someone's gettin rich)
Zippo lighter fluid also contains Naptha.

 

Interesting.

I had looked at the can for any information but I suddenly realized that there should be an MSDS which would identify components.

Turns out that it is between 25% and 35% Naptha.
40% to 60% pale oil which I understand is essentially a neutral carrier/dilutant, and
10%-20% IPA - isopropyl alcohol

The Seafoam maker is trying to hide behind a generic "Naptha" but a little further digging and I found out it is Hexane, Heptane, or one or two other close relatives.

 

Greetings All...Seafoam is getting rich albeit a good product. It is naptha, pale oil, and IPA (alcohol). The reason this product is not particularly bad for seals and such is because it is a straight run hydrocarbon pulled out of the distillation column right above kerosene. So, naptha is a good solvent, the pale oil provides lubricity and the IPA absorbs water from your tank/carb bottoms and allows it to burn (disperses in gas). What it lacks is a good oil based surfactant: butyl cellosolve, or 2 butoxyethanol, or amide with phosphate...add those and you've got a cleaner!!! (But the engine will not run continuously on cleaner!!!)

The issue...after you have cleaned your carbs spotless etc, it is not really the carbs that need seafoam...it's the internal engine deposits that the seafoam is trying to attack. Problem...no GOOD soap is in Seafoam.

Some guys make their own cleaners and they use xylene as the base. I'll say this much...don't do it. Too much chance of seal swelling/softening.

Another mention was Coleman camp fuel. Yes it is naptha and it will work at a much lower cost. Remember the gasoline company "Amoco"? They sold white gas for your high compression muscle cars...cheaper than Coleman. Again, not enough soap and motorcycle engines will run HOT.

A good deposit cleaner is B-12 Chemtool. Problem, it contains xylene and the cyclic hydrocarbon cousin, toluene. These are the components that will break down deposits while eating away at your rubber seals. Do not run B-12 through the carb intake. Alternative application method: pull your intake vacuum caps, attach a short, very small ID sacrificial hose. Insert the B-12 spray tube into the hose. With engine running at 2000 rpm, give a 2-3 second blast. Then run till exhaust is clean. The xylene-toluene runs hot so let the engine cool after application. AGAIN, the problem is contact with rubber intake boots so beware of what the risks are.

As far as Seafoam in the oil...you are thinning the oil with solvent and stripping the lubricants out of the oil. I agree with Fitz, use light oil but substitute one quart of marvel mystery oil, it has surfactants to clean. Run the engine till hot in the garage and drain immediately. Clean the oil filter by hand with solvent, dry, re-install. Then re-fill with cheap oil again, run till hot, drain and discard oil & filter. Now re-fill with good oil & new filter.
Hope this long winded note helps, Greg

 

Wonderful write up, thank you.

Do you have any suggestions for a good "soap" to add to Seafoam that will not damage the rubber?

 

And my Q would be, does Coleman fuel have the EXACT same Naptha as SeaFoam ??
And is there a downside in using Coleman fuel instead of SeaFoam, outside of the lack of IsoPropyl Alcohol? (the dryer)

I realize you would not want to "run" the engine for any great length of time, if it could overheat, but the technique seems to be, warm-up, and load-up the carbs with "X", let sit for a while, then run it out.

And I'll re-state that nothing cleans totally plugged jets.

 

The best soap, that has been around for years is 2-butoxyethanol. You can buy it commercially from Dow or Kodak. I would add 1-5% by volume to Seafoam. You need to check solubility, the alcohol will probably work as the coupling agent and keep the cleaner in solution. A quicker source is "Simple Green" concentrate. The problem is, other stuff they use that will make your exhaust will smell like trees. Check a 1 oz Seafoam sample first with <10% simple green for solubility. (Add Simple Green in bottle, shake, let sit for 24 hr. No separation, good)

Before embarking on a mad chemist operation. I have a parts bike that is loaded with carbon. I'm going to try this method: Pull the intake vacuum plug. Attach hose with brass 1/4" needle valve. Upstream of the valve, screw on a bushing and 1/2" coupling. Pour seafoam into the coupling (hold upright with wire to a rafter). You now have a shot pot to the intake. Start the bike, open needle valve slowly and meter seafoam into cylinder without killing the motor. The debris have to go somewhere...I have removable baffles. Otherwise, it will coke your baffles.