CDI Question

So I have a couple of cdi boxes for maxims. The problem is that none of them are the proper ones for my 1980 650 maxim. The PO got the bike not running and bought a new ignitor for it. I plugged it in and got nothing so I got a new used ignitor from woot, still nothing. I start searching ebay and find out that the ignitors I've been using are the wrong ones. So I need to know what the right ignitor box for my bike is. It is a 1980 650 maxim g. Thanks,
Tiny

 

You need Yamaha part number 4H7-82305-10-00. It was used on the XJ650G, XJ650H and XJ650LH. I am showing that it was replaced by the 5V2-82305-10-00 which was used on the XJ650RJ.

Having said that, it should start and idle on any of the early XJ ignitors. You probably have additional issues, or a box full of defective itnitors.

 

I swapped one from a 750 Maxim on my 750 Seca and it didn't seem to make any difference on how it ran. I think your bike may have other issues?

 

D- It's probably not a case of "better or worse" more a case of "different." I can only speak for sure in terms of the 550s, they have different cams between the Seca and Max and the ignition curve is different. Both of you are correct in that the bike should still start and idle. Tiny, you actually might want to hope Carl is wrong about the whole box of bad ignition modules...
I think the problem is elsewhere, but you should still be looking for the correct module to get the right timing curve.

 

test the igniter, pull the connector, select the 2 wires from either coil, pull the plugs & ground them the the head, now flash 12v at the connector & 2 plugs should spark, then ditto the other coil, you might have to reverse the live.

 

Will definatly try tomorrow. I'm losing my mind and this site and the help from it is the only reason this bike hasn't hit craigslist yet. What other issues would you xj gods suggest?

 

I can't say thanks enough. I'll hit flea bay tomorrow and see if I can get one without selling a kidney.

 

TCI Units:

Yamaha (thankfully!) used a TCI (which stands for Transistor Controlled Ignition) system on all XJ-series bikes to control the coils, timing, spark advance, etc. A TCI unit is an "early" version of the now-common electronic control systems that are now used on virtually all modern vehicles of almost every type, and even these early versions are completely maintenance-free and very rarely cause problems...........which is a good thing, because original TCI boxes are no longer available new.

When engine performance problems develops, many people immediately suspect that the cause may be within the "black box" workings of their TCI unit, which is unlikely. The factory service manual gives "instructions" for diagnosing TCI problems, and it basically says "test every other possible cause for your problem and if no other cause for the problem exists, only then should you "suspect" TCI failure, but before you buy a replacement, first try to find a known, working TCI unit from a similar bike and plug it in on the problem bike, and see if the problem goes away............"

Well!

There are three main problems that TCI units succumb to after years of reliable service:

1) bad solder joints on some of the internal components (known as "cold solder joints", so that the component pieces come loose from the circuit board and can no longer perform their function reliably (or at all).

2) component failure......a blow-up transistor, a burned circuit trace, etc. This situation can develop if you have a short-circuit in your electrical system, or hook up your battery or jumper cables incorrectly, etc. TCI units do not like "big blue sparks" in the electrical system (except at the spark plugs, of course!).

3) dirty external terminal connections.


Bad solder joints can be repaired by someone who is skilled at that sort of diagnosis and repair, and even individual circuit components can be replaced, but it's tough to find someone who has the skill and patience to do this type of work. Yamaha gave absolutely "zero" electrical specifications for checking the condition of the TCI units, besides the afore-mentioned "check everything else first" type of diagnosis.

But you can perform a simple set of tests to determine whether your TCI unit is good or not, without having a second, known good unit to install in place of the suspect unit. Although these instructions were written for XS owners, the exact same thoughts apply to the TCI units on the XJ-series of bikes:

http://home.ptd.net/~theragos/tci%20faq's.htm


All of the XJ-series TCI units are of the "4RO" style as described in the above article.

And if the above isn't enough, if you feel the need to get medieval with your TCI unit, well, then it doesn't get much better than this:

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html

 

So I've decided to send the tci out to someone with more experience than me. Now I want to test the pickups, the only issue is I dont know how so anyone with a manual or experience please chime in. If the pickups check out I will be swapping the wiring harness of my parts bike. Or I might make a new harness and eliminate all the extra garbage. But first things first, How do I check the pickups?

 

Place a voltmeter (preferably an analog unit) across the Grey or Orange wire to the Black wire. Energize the system and watch for voltage pulses as you rotate the reluctor past the pickup. This can be done by hand or with the starter by I'd use the hand method so that the pulses are slow enough to see.

 

Thanks robert. I'm going to bed since its past midnight here and the people next door don't like me making noise this time of night. I will try this method first thing in the morning and post my results. (Ok, not first thing in the morning. They don't like me tinkering at 5 am

 

So I checked the pickups and they turned out fine. The coils ohm out ok so whats the next step?

 

Is the next step taking the plunge and getting a new tci unit and hoping thats my problem?

 

Tiny,

Take a breath and then write us a nice long post about what the current situation is, i.e. what works, what doesn't, what you've tried, what tests you've run and what the results were, etc. I don't see anywhere here what the exact symptoms are that you're trying to fix.

For instance, do you get spark on any of the cylinders?

Assuming that you don't have spark from either 1/4 or 2/3, there aren't too many places to look - as there are only a few things that will disable both systems.

Check that you do have +12V between the Black wire (ground) and the R/W wire at the TCI unit while cranking.

Check that you don't have ground (continuity to chassis) on the B/W wire of the TCI unit when cranking.

If the first test fails, you have a problem with fuses or the ignition switch.

If the second test fails, you have a problem with the engine stop switch, neutral switch, sidestand switch, or sidestand relay.

If neither test fails, your TCI unit may be just plain bad, or you're unfortunate enough to have two things wrong elsewhere in your system.

Cheers,
Paul

 

As it stands now my problem is that Im not getting spark on any of the cylinders. I've done the check that robert mentions above for checking the pickups. I've ohmed out the coils and they appear to be fine. I have 12 volts running to the coils but they aren't sparking. What would you suggest next?

 

Just above your response I posted two things to try. Did you try both? What are the results of the ground check?

 

Bidding on a cdi on ebay now. wish me luck

 

SQLGUY, I tried both of your tests with good results. I believe I have a bad TCI. I just won a working one off of ebay. I guess we'll know when the new unit arrives. Thanks for your tests, they gave me piece of mind to spend the money on the new(ish) tci.

 

I'd follow SQL's list (being that you don't have a kickstand switch narrows the field). Don't sweat this, you will beat it!

 

Mentally or physically? The hammer has almost made a trip to the gas tank on more than one occasion

 

You wanna send your TCI here for a check-up/refresh?

 

I've got two that are supposedly good. I think I'm gonna try them on another bike and see what happens. Once I get this bike running I'm gonna send you a few known dead units to fix and distribute to anyone that needs one.

 

Wait... wait... A damaged what??? A condensator?



Everyone needs to remember... Just because you found it on the web doesn't make it right.

I also went looking for TCI info a short while ago and that site came up on my radar too. And as a matter of fact, that was the best source of info I found. Not everything there is correct, but still the best site I found.

And for those of you that are still reading... That charred component is what's left of a resistor after someone has left the magic out. 8O

It started life as an 82 Ohm carbon resistor. Now the color code says it's charcoal, charcoal, charcoal, with a tolerance band of charcoal. :lol:

 

That's the special hi-po version............

 

[quote="Rice_Burnarr Now the color code says it's charcoal, charcoal, charcoal, with a tolerance band of charcoal. :lol:[/quote]

I'm rollin'!!! Too darn funny Rice!

 

Haha! Yeah, couldn't resist!

Get it? Couldn't resist? Hello??? Is this thing on? :wink:

I had my TCI apart a couple days ago. It's back together and back on the bike now, but I did take a couple of pics while it was apart. You can see my 82 Ohm condensator in the background:



Hey Robert, Check your PM.

Burnarr

 

So you mean you took out the condensator? Wow aren't you worried about condensation buildup?

:lol:

 

Haha! :lol:

Naaaa... I'm not worried. I did put my condensator back in when I was done. Don't you think that will prevent any future condensation? :?

 

Seriously though. We really shouldn't be hard on the guy that made that pic. I thank him for being courageous and dedicated enough to actually go looking for the problem and take the TCI lid off for pictures in the first place. So he got a little confused as to what the components really are, but there's still a lot of information there to be learned, right?

I don't know if that guy is still out there, but if he is, I would want him to know that while, yes, I'm poking a little fun at his component nomenclature, I truly do applaud his efforts.

Burnarr

 

Robert,

I sent you a PM "Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:34 am" but it's still in my Outbox. :?

Did you get that PM or am I doing something wrong somehow? I've not done a lot of PMs so I'm not sure I'm doing it right...

Burnarr

 

It means Robert has not LOOKED at his Inbox yet (probably because it's 5:27 AM out in his part of the world). As soon as he views his mailbox, then that message moves from YOUR "outbox" to YOUR "sentbox", and thta's how YOU know that he has viewed (or had an opportunity to view) your worthy and very imporant PM to him...............

 

Thanks chacal. That makes sense and seems I'm doing it right, but I was just wondering because I sent it over 24 hrs ago.

"your worthy and very imporant PM to him...............:"

But of course! I wouldn't do anything other!!

 

I just got it Burnarr (12:30 PST 02June09). You will see sent items remaining in your outbox until they are opened by the recipient.
I'd LOVE to reverse engineer this thing. I talked to one of our programming engineers at work about writing user-friendly software that could be flashed into a new computer for our bikes (the original chips and programming are unavailable and I don't know how to pull the program out of my existing chips without damaging them). He said doable but time intensive. Could we collectively create an open-source program like the Mega-Squirt folks do? It would make possible the creation of replacement TCIs for anyone who needed it.

 

Hi Robert,

I just sent you a PM back.

And I don't know exactly what's inside the one and only IC chip in there, but I sincerely doubt there's any programming involved. I suspect everything is fixed... No software. Might be wrong, but I think the only flashing involved is at the spark plugs.

Anyway, check your PM.

Burnarr

 

Robert,

you mentioned sending the TCI unit to you for a refresh to another user. Is that still possible? How much? I believe I have a faulty TCI.

 

Pm sent.

 

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html

been reading this for about a hour I see I have a lot to learn about electronics :roll: