10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what else?

I was wondering if the ethynol in gas these days is doing any damage to the XJs. I have a 750 Norton and it will desolve its tank unless you use an epoxy liner like caswells - $70 ). Any other type also desolves. A Norton aftermarket steel tank is $495 :evil: Anyone noticed anything suspicious going on in your induction ie: weird erosion?

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

I'm facing this on 2 fronts. My outboard motor is an '84 35hp Merc. Motors this age barely tolerate ethynol. I hope this is just an urban legend, have heard that there is lobbying going on to up the percentage to 15%. IMHO they'll rust from the inside out if this happens...

skillet
BTW I owned a '69 Triumph Bonneville, love me some Limey bikes...

 

what's the Norton tank made of ?

 

The urban legends involving ethanol have gotten as ridiculous as those involving the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

Many of the horrors attributed to ethanol stem from the related fuel methanol, commonly used in race cars. This fuel will cause problems in a perfectly good fuel system. Ethanol generally just exposes problems that already exist by cleaning the system, although it will dissolve some fuel tank coatings, most of which haven't been used for about 30 years. It also does not "attract" moisture into a fuel tank, it absorbs moisture that's already there thus avoiding a lot of moisture related problems including corrosion and fuel system icing.

We've been using ethanol blends up to 30% in engines from cars to farm tractors to model airplane engines since it became available with no problems. It got it's first bad press from a mechanic who convinced a state legislator that his recently rebuilt lawnmower engine blew up due to ethanol rather than to his shoddy workmanship.

Sorry for the rant but I've gotten real tired of this anti-ethanol crap. We even have a local aerobatics team that flies on 100% ethanol. It's just like anything else, use it right and it works just fine.

 

glow fuel is methanol

 

fiberglass...as is the taillight body and the side covers. Later they got away from that. Oh. And Dood, go to accessnorton.com' s forum and tell them that ethynol really does nothing to their fiberglass fuel tanks. You will find out what ranting is.

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

johntc, maybe I've been led to believe an "urban legend" but you're the ONLY ONE I've ever heard take up for ethanol...

skillet

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

Some interesting supporting evidence of the ethanol-dissolves-fiberglass theory here: http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/fueltest.asp

On the other hand, the people that make fiberglass tanks for fuel storage and UL apparently disagree (even for 100% ethanol): http://www.fiberglasstankandpipe.com/ethanol.htm

 

It has to do with partial pressures- - ethanol in a gas tank absolutely will pull any water vapor out of the air inside the fuel tank, whereas straight gasoline will not, but would wait until the water vapor condenses.

The alcohol in the gas then absorbs the water, and at some tipping point, the water/gas falls out, and can be separated as if it's just water.

You can then light this "water" on fire !! I've done this with my home-made water separators for my lawn mowers.

 

Time, that sounds like some Harry Potter stuff, you sure it's legal ?

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

Did you read the article? I just skimmed it and saw things about controlling water content because at greater than .5% the alcohol/water blend will settle out and encourage bacteria growth. There was also stuff about blending the ethanol just prior to loading in the delivery truck to prevent moisture absorption.

Also, what we generically call "fiberglass" is strands of glass with a binder (often polyester resin). The glass itself isn't going to be bothered by alcohol, it's the binder. The article implies that fiberglass storage tanks manufactured since 1982 have the requirement to be compatible with alcohol. They may not be using the same binder in modern storage tanks that was used in older boat and motorcycle tanks.

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

I read the whole article. They said that UL started testing for ethanol compatibility in 1982, but that the tank manufacturers tested older tanks and still found them to be compatible... going back 40 years.

All in all, from what I've read in these two articles, and one more I found on the boat tank angle, I think the real story is that:

a) It's possible to make fiberglass tanks that are ethanol-safe, and the gasoline production and storage industry has been doing it for a long time and

b) Many smaller producers of fuel tanks for vehicles have not conformed to the requirements that would be needed for ethanol-safe fiberglass

It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping.

 

Here's what I was trying to get at. If you use a tank liner it had best be an epoxy based liner. The liners like Kreem will seperate from the steel and begin to clog strainers or filters. Caswell is a storage tank making company and had to come up with a solution for the latex type liners failures due to ethynol so the looked at the areospace industry ( my job ) and found that they use epoxy based sealers for tanks so they sell the type they use in small enough amounts for us bikers but it ain't cheap. This liner , if applied correctly, keeps the ethynol from leaching the polyester binder from the 68-74 Norton fiberglass Interstate and Roadster tanks. Oh.. no I am not affiliated with Caswell in any way.

 

Pollock: While methanol is the "glow fuel" you buy in the can at the hobby shop I've seen guys who weren't satisfied with the "stock stuff" use ethanol, galahol, and in one case diesel. Made a god-awful mess but it worked.

Skillet: I may be the first guy you've seen defend ethanol but I believe you're beginning to see I won't be the only one.

 

Re: 10% Ethynol in the gas ....disolves fiberglass..what els

johntc, You don't know how much I'm hopeing you're right :wink: ...

skillet