Broken Exhanst Header Stud

Well, thanks to my spotter telling me "No, it didn't bottom out" when loading the bike into a truck, I have broken the lower stud for header #2 (which means it's the hardest stud to get at, the frame is in the way of drilling straight into the stud.)

The stud is broken off less than flush, so vice grips, heat, wax, etc won't work. My tap is not working, maybe because it's cheap.

I wouldn't be able to weld on a nut but I could possibly weld one of my extractors into the hole I made in the stud, anyone think that might work?

Short of that last idea, I've given up trying to remove it myself, I think my next move is remove the cylinder head and try the tap again from a better angle, and take it to a machine shop as a last resort.

A few questions:
I've removed 12 acorn nuts from the top of the cylinder head and one regular nut from the bottom near the front (and all the headers).
Do I need to remove the valve head to take off the cylinder head?
Do I need to remove the entire engine from the frame to get the cylinder head off? I'm hoping no but it looks like yes.
Is it possible to remove the engine without a cherry picker? The service manual mentions using a box for support. Could it be a one person job to remove the engine?


Later that night:

I think I jumped the gun making this thread, I was just really frustrated at not being able to easily tap out the stud.

I'm going to be pushing it across town tomorrow to a machine shop that'll probably be able to help me (albeit for $65/h)...

I wouldn't be surprised if they do have to remove the engine, the frame tube just couldn't be in a worse spot for working on this particular stud.

Thank you anyway for your reply, johno8.

 

I've had some luck removing 4 of the same exhaust bolts that were like yours, flush. My buddy brought his mig welder over and managed to weld nuts to each of those studs and then turned them out. I thought I was in the same boat as you. I watched him do 2, then I did the last 2. Worked slicker than owl ***t. Might want to try that. Oh yeah, we never had to remove the engine either.

 

First, it is beyond easy to remove the engine. Having a friend to help would be nice, but not necessary. Unbolt the driveshaft (under the rubber boot) and slide it back. Remove the carbs and exhaust... disconnect wires from everything. Place a jack under the engine unbolt the frame section...four allen head bolts. Then just pull the engine out. I did it by myself and put it back together with fresh paint and didn't hose it up.
Next, get a center punch. Punch it dead center. If you mess that up, just try to chisel it toward the center. Make a pilot hole...TAKE YOUR TIME!! It needs to be centered and straight!! Don't fool yourself thinking it is close enough. It would be a good idea to pull another stud and see just how far you can drill. If aluminum comes out the drill bit flutes, you have gone too far...STOP! Keep drilling the hole as big as you can get it. Depending on how well you centered the pilot hole, this may be pretty big or not very big. Don't try to put a tiny extractor in there because you will break it off and that WON'T come out. Once you have the hole as big as you can get it, use as big of an extractor as you can...and some PB Blaster...and get it out!
I only know this because I did it last week...after the bike was all back together. Take your time and it should be fine. Pucker factor should be rather high on this one...but if you F it up, you can always helicoil it!!

 

If this isn't too late you do not have to remove the engine from the frame to remove the head. I have removed my head twice already, it isn't hard to do at all. The worst part is buying the new gaskets for it. Let me know if you want/need help.

 

IanXJ - Thanks for the advice, next time I have to remove the engine or use a tap it'll definitely help. As for this current problem, the bike is already at the shop. If I had read your post sooner I might have gone and bought a cheap jack and attempted to do it myself.

Jonmarkos - Are you talking about the cylinder head itself? I know the head cover will come off but the studs holding on the head look like they're a good 5 inches long, and there's not enough much clearance above to raise the thing. Not to mention I couldn't get it to budge upwards even with all the hardware out.

 

I am talking about the cylinder head itself, I just got done doing it on mine.

 

Two words.... Heli Coil..

 

If you are faced with Broken-off Studs or Manifold Screws, the best thing to do is let a professional keep you from making the situation worse.
Take the Head off and have a Machine Shop "Burn" the broken-off remnants and remove any others that are in the Head when they get it.
Get the fragments and seized fasteners removed by EDM Machining.
The EDM Process disintegrates the fragment and leaves the Aluminum undisturbed.
Not needing welding, Heli-coils, broken EZ-Out, off-center drilled, or otherwise rendered worse that when you started.

There are several products available to allow you to reuse the Head Gasket, ... provided it was not damaged during the dismantling. Permatex HiTack Spray-a-Gasket being one of the best.

 

Rick, re-use the head gasket or valve cover gasket? Hi-tack will definitely let you re-use an un-torn valve cover gasket but I don't think I would ever re-use a head gasket. Once they're squished once they're done aren't they?

 

That's what they want us to believe.
Buy a New Head Gasket every single time you pop-off the Head.

That's what is says and the Dealers urge you to abide by the practice.

I don't apply anything to the Cam Cover Gasket except Marvel Mystery Oil to make sure it gets a tight seal.
I have used a Head Gasket more than once.

Cylinder Head Gasket.
It's going to get squished precisely the same way is did the first time.
With additional Sealant to prevent any leaks.
Provided the Gasket is still whole and not damaged when you pull the Head and you put it back on the way it came off.
I have done it.
You just have to coat the Gasket and let it get to where the Sealant starts to cure.
Place it on the Block and don't move it once you set it down.

Spraying some of the sealant into a can and "Painting" the Mating Surfaces is extra protection.

 

I now have the bike back in my possession, they didn't actually touch it. They quoted me 3 hours to remove the engine, 6 to put it back in @$65/h, not including the actual work. Ech.

So, I bought a floor jack and two 2 ton jack stands. I've never had a center stand, and I assume I'll need one to stabilize the bike during this. When I get one I'll be trying to pull the engine myself. (Or at least removing the front wheel and moving the engine sideways a bit to get back in there at the broken stud.)

Now, question time.
Is having the bike on the center stand plus jack stands on the front forks advisable?

When I jack the engine, I plan to jack the engine itself by the oil pan? (the flat surface on the bottom of the engine.) Is this advisable?.

What sort of gasket will I need to replace after I remove the cylinder head? I can't seem to find it in Chacal's catalog.

I pulled the starter motor out by accident and put it back in. Should I replace a gasket somewhere?

Has anyone with a lowered XJ ever tried to use a center stand? I think mine might have been removed when/because the bike was lowered.

I have the service manual for this bike but the pictures are hard to see, and it seems like you have to completely dismantle the top end to get the cylinder head off.

Do I need to take off the valve head cover to take off the cylinder head?

Can I leave the valve head attached to the cylinder head when I remove them both from the rest of the engine?

I'm pretty unfamiliar with these parts and their names, could someone advise me on $ 1,2,3?

1 - Valve head cover
2 - cylinder head?
3- ?
4- ? (Not YICS, the chamber between them)
5- clutch

 

3= cylinder barrels and 4= crankcase (So the gasket between them is a "Base gasket").

I have no idea of prices but yes, you will have to remove the valve covers to expose the cam chain.

I have only ever done this once, on an old twin, and did not enjoy the experience (It was my brothers bike). I would read and re read the manual and ask yourself if you feel confident doing the work yourself.

Check out the gallery as some one has posted pics of an engine he is dismantling - this will give you an idea of whats involved.

 

Thanks markie, I was able to find the gaskets in the catalog.
Now I need to know which gaskets I'll be disturbing/replacing.

I think I can leave the cylinder barrels on the bike during this process, and go without replacing the base gasket, right?

When mating the head and the cylinder barrels there's two gaskets? The head gasket AND the cam tunnel gasket?

 

STOP!!!

Do NOT begin ... Until

1. You have a Manual
2. You address matters of Safety to YOU and the Bike.
3. The FIRST RULE of Motorcycle Repair MUST be observed!
>>"Do NOT do anything which will make a Bad Situation WORSE!"

You are a developing "Perfect Storm" of inexperience.
All known factors indicate: YOU Need HELP!

Before you make the first move ...
Get some Industrial-Strength -- Screw-in Rafter Hooks.
2 Heavy-Duty "Ratchet Straps"
Anchor the Hooks into Ceiling Rafters above the Bike.
Use the Ratchet Straps to suspend the Handlebars and PREVENT a SERIOUS Accident taking place because you were not prepared for the Bike shifting and toppling-over!

Get ... a ... Manual.
Borrow ... a ... Manual.
I ... have ... a ... Manual ... you ... can ... borrow!

But before something bad happens ... let's get on the same page.

Before you get hurt or do something to complicate this job far more than it is complicated at this moment ...

You need to get your sh1t together.
Big time.

 

I'll agree with Rick, you NEED a manual. The XJCD's are cheap and contain all you need, spring for a set and buy a Haynes to supplement it. You will spend about $35 but it will be worth every penny as you CONFIDENTLY tackle each issue your bike has in turn. I cannot over emphasize the importance of this step.
I would also suggest that instead of pulling the engine with the bike upright, consider laying the bike on it's side and picking the frame up off of the engine.

 

I have a broken stud on this project bike I just picked up. I'm yanking the engine anyway so I'll fix it on the bench, but in regards to the actual tool work, I use left handed drill bits before I try simply drilling it out and tapping or heli-coiling. Many times, the heat of friction of the drill bit turning "lefty-loosy" will back out the broken stud.

 

Before everyone reads some comments in this thread and are led to believe that it is easier to remove the Engine than to simply just remove the Cylinder Head, ... please consider.

Every single fastener you will have to undo to remove Exhaust, Pedals, and everything else might be seized worse than the Manifold Bolt that set the project into motion.

In 2009, it might not be unusual to spend more time and confront more frustrations, removing just the Exhaust components than it would be to remove the Head and drive it to a Machine Shop.

 

You should really listen to Rick on this one. I have removed my engine from the frame and have also removed my cylinder head without removing the engine. It is much easier over all to just remove the cylinder head from the engine with the engine still in the frame, much less work involved. And my haynes manual has saved me more money than I could even count. I bought my maxim to learn on and it would have been a very expensive education without it.

 

Hey all, just wanted to post an update.

Rick's idea about cargo straps hooked to the ceiling helped me a lot. I started with them on the handlebars as suggested, and eventually moved them right onto the engine. Using 3 cargo straps and a floor jack I was able to remove the engine, get it heli-coiled, and get it back in.

I stripped the heli-coil out of another exhaust stud hole as I was replacing my headers, but I've made a temporary fix for that one.

The bike is road worthy again, thanks for all the help and I hope no one ever breaks that same stud.

 

How much did it run you to get the job done? How long did it take?