Losing my faith, please help!!!

Some of you may remember my previous posts... thanks for bearing with me! No progress to mention.

Long story short:

85 Maxim X hasn't run in 5 years. 25,000 miles. Overall nice shape.
Ran poorly when put away. Good spark on new plugs. Whistle clean carbs (perhaps now slightly out of adjustment). Brand new strong battery. Very low 50ish compression...

CANNOT GET HER STARTED!!!!

Not even a pop. This is the most stubborn engine I've ever encountered.
I've used cans worth of starting fluid. Tried pop starting on some big hills....no luck. I've tried everything I know. :cry:

I'm convinced it's the valves... but want to get her running before adjusting them. Problem is, I can't. Chicken and the egg here.

I've finally got her into my new dry garage and am ready to get to business.

Should I adjust the valves? Should I get a leakdown test? Should I turn the crank with my drill?!?

I feel like this engine just needs a good kick in the ass! It's complete and ran when it was put away.

Help me fellas. Please.

 

That compression seems very low although I have seen low compression on cold engines before. I would try some oil in each cyl. Maybe a tablespoon or 2 of Marvel Mystery oil or ATF fluid. Try the he compression test again. Then let it sit for an hour. Put the plugs in and try squirting just a small amount of starting fluid into the air box. The valves may need adj. but normally it won’t cause a reduced compression unless you have a bad valve seat, bent valve or bad carbon build up. It can affect the amount of fuel entering the cyl do to reduced duration but that shouldn’t affect the starting fluid. Good Luck

 

Low 50's is real bad news. Rings? Valves? Worse?

Add about 2-Tablespoons of oil to each of the cylinders just before getting a new compression reading on each hole.

If the compression shoots back up ... there's a ring or cylinder related issue. If the compression stays low ... it valves or gasket related.

50 psi across the board is highly unusual. You might get a seriously low test on one or two of those holes. All four has to be a clue that something common to all the holes is more likely than having the compression on all of them take an equal nose-dive.

I'm leaning toward Head Gasket if the compression stays low on the whole gang.

Seems like you're on the path to have to take the head off; no matter how you look at it. Hopefully, the only problem with your bike is limited to a head gasket or maybe even just a warped head.

IF it is just the gasket; simply replacing the gasket might get you right back in business.

However, before you put the head back on, have it checked for warping; because if it is warped you'll be right back in the same boat before too long.

Additionally, with the head off ... you might just as well de-carbon, have the valves lapped and the valve seals replaced. Then, you won't be needing to pop the head off, again, for a good long while.

 

pay a mechanik...get it fixed enough to starterup , fiddle later..

 

In order for it to start you need to have compression but also a good spark at the right time and the correct fuel mixture. You should check the spark, timing and carbs. If you have a decent spark then it's probably the carbs, they can get gummed up from sitting just a few weeks. If you suspect the valves go ahead and check the valve clearances.
It could be the valves or worn rings giving low compression but I would suspect the compression gauge. If it's a car gauge it might not work because the bike engine has such small displacement or it might be leaking. I had to try 4 different ones to find one that would work on a bike. Like feelingold says, put some light oil in the cylinder and see if the compression comes up. In any case I would never take it to a mechanic.

 

For shits and grins ... try re-torqing the head. About now it's time to say, as Tom Cruise so very simply stated in Risky Business: "Sometimes you just have to say what everybody wishes I just typed." Nope. Thought better of it!

I'm "All-in" it won't start, dead-cold, with ridiculously low compression.

Roll the dice that's it the Cylinder Head Gasket ... (The odd's are with you!)
There will be the usual signs if it's a Blown Gasket. If you win the bet; you are way head on getting the bike right. No? Head's warped? Well there's the head -- on the bench.

Here's the Menu at RickCoMatic's when "Head" Honcho need an older bike' head serviced.

Plane it dead. No skim if it's just a couple-thou. Lap valves and seats.
New Valve Seals. Remove all traces of carbon from head combustion chambers, piston tops and cylinder "ridge". Sand combustion chamber smooth and graduate sanding to 1200. Same for pistons. Polish the chambers and crowns.

Getting the thing planed is left to the Machine Shop.

By Billboard's Greatest Hits of '65, '66, and 1967 to enjoy while your wrenchin'! Get some Brylcreem to keep your hair looking good. Pull an all-nighter and do the head. Let all that sweet, Crusin' Music pace you while you're Hot-Rod Mod's are happenin'.

Get the seals, lapping compound and stick ... we'll put out an "A-P-B" for the Spring Compressor and we'll shake a little tail feather putting-on the new seals after we lap-in the valves nice and tight.

In the mean time ... practice singing some of those Golden Oldies ...

Duke ... Duke ... Duke ... Duke of Earl

We'll start a Thread ... use it like "Chat" if we have too ... and make your bike go.

And that's all she wrote.

 

I have to say rick, there is a lot of information in that warped brain of yours, thanks for keeping things entertaining, as well as informative. Funny, knowledgeable, with a dash of creepy...

 

I like ArizonaSteve's idea of trying a different gauge.

Having 2 adjacent cylinders similarly low because of a head gasket is a likely situation. Having all four the same low number seems very unlikely.

A couple other ideas on how all four might read uniformly low:

Cranking too slow. How is that battery? Need to have good spin to get good numbers.

Is the valve timing correct? Having valves open at the wrong time will also lead to low compression.

 

Is it possible the valve timing is wildly out, as in the chain broke? Doesn't explain the low compression but maybe the total lack of even a sputter.
Jim

 

is the kill switch on "off" by any chance?

 

You'd know for sure it the timing chain broke. A few revolutions and it would "Bunch-up" and you wouldn't get much crankshaft movement without hearing and feeling it.

The valves wouldn't move and the cylinders would be knocking into the opened ones ... that would be a nightmare and an Excedrin headache all balled into one.

I have a "Blow-by" tool I'll let you use. It's like the ColorTune Plug ... except this variation screws into the plug hole and has a tire valve stem that lets you pump air into the hole and listen for it escaping from the adjacent cylinder or elsewhere.

PM me your Snail Mail and I shoot it right out to you.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice and insight... sorry it's taken so long to respond! (no internet in the homestead)

Sure would be sweet if a head gasket got my bike going! It's in such nice shape I'd be suprised if the engine was just trashed.

Tried the oil in the cylinder... no major changes, just a few psi. Used ATF hoping it will free up the rings a bit while it sits.

Good spark on new plugs. Wires in proper order.

Kill switch is on. I must say I'm just a little hurt.
I suspected spark issues immediately, but it sparks grounded against the head regardless of gear, clutch, or sidestand position. I was worried I was doing something simple wrong but I can't find a combo that doesn't spark!
Is there any reason a plug would spark on the outside of the block but not inside?

Brand new battery usually jumped to my car for extended bouts of futile cranking.

The timing chain is in tact and turning smoothly. Could the bike get out of "time" some other way?

Rickomatic thanks for the offer of your compression leakdown tool. I wonder if I'd be able to discern where the leak is though. Never used one, but hey, now seems like a good opportunity! I'll let you know. Would it double as a normal compression tester? (maybe a better one than the one i've got)

Thanks fellas!

 

Sorry bout that Rook. No insult implied. The only reason I suggested the kill switch, is because it once happened with me about 10 years ago with an old 550 seca I used to have. I think I spent a number of hours and time calling bike shops and talking to bike techs as to why my seca wasnt even cranking over.Little did I know my twin brother had used my bike and left my bike on the "engine off" position which I never ever used and didnt even bother to look. Needless to say after all the digging for info (had no pc back then) and tinkering I stumbled onto something so simple. So now before I even give any advice to someone who claims their bike wont start at all, I ask them the same question I asked you and wished someone would of asked me 10 or so years ago. Did you check you coil connections? Sometimes the coil wires start to crack close to the coils and create a weak spark.

 

You're 175 miles from my place.

I got the books and all the tools. If you need to load-it-up and come-on down here ... we'll dive-in and get to the root of the problem.

With only 50 psi across the board, I have serious doubts about the engine starting. 50 is nearly 70 below the minimum on 500 cc bikes and above.

I'm convinced that the head needs to come off and inspected ... along with the gasket. With the Football game or the Baseball playoff's on the shop TV ... we yank the head ... see what there is to see ... and go from there.

I'll be your hole card if you need to play it.

 

just a silly question here. No insult intended at all. Did you have the rest of the plugs out when you ran the compression check. Numbers will be wrong if you didn't. Also were the carbs off the bike at the time. The engine needs as much air as it can suck in at that particular time. Engine wont be turning fast enough to build up the numbers if not. I bet head gasket like the other fellows here though.

 

Throttle wide open?
proad

 

If only changes the compression only by a few psi, then you are right, and it is the valves! 25,000 is about right for a valve adjustment. Could be you have crap on your valve seat that needs to get knocked off. I would check your valve clearances before doing anything drastic like shaving the head! At the same time, you can check and see if you have any valves stuck in the open position.

BTW - my brand new battery is only good for about twenty-thirty seconds of cranking. Anything beyond that, and it will crank and not fire! So be sure you have enough juice! These bikes are very cranky about having good voltage.

 

Men:

The likelihood that this condition is related to valves, particularly because the compression -- on ALL FOUR HOLES -- is negligible ... is nil.

Even if it IS valve related ... the Head has to be serviced.

The "Oiled Cylinder Test" showed NO change. This eliminates RINGS.
Tight valves, or burned valves and seats, would produce readings that VARIED between holes ... and would be higher than 50 psi ACROSS THE BOARD.

No matter what ... you have to pull the head. The head HAS GOT to come off and be checked for:

Cracks, warp, blown gasket and the cylinder walls inspected for scoring.

The bottom line is: Pull the Head. Any further discussion without pulling the head for evaluation and visual inspections is wasting time.

 

I must say I enjoyed this thread..Honestly I was begining to wonder..If rick o, had a sense of humour...Glad to see he do..

 

No Samsr, I dind't have the plugs out. Didn't know that's the procedure. Carbs should be wide open, too? Didn't know!

I'd like to get a better compression gauge and do it again positively using y'alls advice.

That'd be a great start.

So Rickcomatic where are you in Colorado?

Thanks fellas

 

"Long story short:

85 Maxim X hasn't run in 5 years. 25,000 miles. Overall nice shape.
Ran poorly when put away. Good spark on new plugs. Whistle clean carbs (perhaps now slightly out of adjustment). Brand new strong battery. Very low 50ish compression... "

"low 50ish compression"

Right after I read the 3-words, above, that ended the paragraph above; with the thumbnail sketch of the situation ... I knew the head had to come off the bike. I'll get the Operating Room ready for surgery.

I rest my case.

 

I'm so confused ...

I thought this bike was just up the coast ... in Maine!

As Guilda Radner used to say:

"Never mind"

 

I think your thinking of me and my "X" Rick-O-. By the way Rook, have you ever, or has the PO ever brought that in for a valve adjustament? Reason I'm asking is; maxim X's first scheduled valve adjustments should've been do at 16,000 miles at least to check clearences. A lot of maxim X owners back in the day failed to do this on their bikes for what ever reasons I dont know. I know having 20 valves is supposed to reduce valve maintenance intervals considerably( meaning less often) but, to get them done around or near every 16,000 miles is key. Its a little expensive if your gonna have the shop do it as I did, but worth it! Its rare to see bent valves in these things, and I would be more likely to suspect a valve or some valves may have some contamination which is not causing it to seat as it should. Might as well look at the head to while your at it as rick said. I knew of a guy way back who had a 700 fazer that had the same symtems you explained and He was un aware that the PO beat the shit out of it and the bike was never maintained right. His problem ended being a worn out cam lobe, which he had replaced the cam + re adjusted valves and all was well. I hope that is not your case. I hope it will be much simler than that for you!