Philosophy of Motorcycle Restoration 101

After answering yet another post by a frustrated member, I decided a bit of a rant about mindset is in order:

These are OLD motorcycles. OLD.

No matter how well-preserved one appears to be, it is NOT "like new" although in some cases it may look that way.

If you really want to ride, and use on a regular basis, one of these old crocks then you HAVE TO reverse the effects of time and neglect or you will have continual problems.

What you have to ask yourself is whether the bike is going to be in charge of the process or you are. "The process" WILL happen, how is up to you.

If you give the bike a cursory inspection, fix the "obvious" stuff or whatever small (or large) issue might be keeping it from running at the time and then start riding it like it was all new, you're gonna have constant problems. Trust me.

One thing after another is going to "go wrong." But that's not what's really happening. The bike is simply showing you all the things you failed to do.

On the other hand, if you:

Get a manual or two (I prefer a combination of the factory and aftermarket books, as well as the dealer assembly manuals) or even just an OWNERS manual (most maintenance items are covered there, or at least listed

Go through the MAINTENANCE section, item by item, leaving nothing out, taking no shortcuts, putting nothing off, do it all;

Replace anything you find along the way that is worn, rotted, corroded or otherwise deteriorated beyond useful service;

Thoroughly clean and inspect everything else;

Adjust everything to specifications, as above, leave NOTHING OUT...

Then YOU will be in charge of "the process," not the bike. YES, you will still get an occasional rude surprise, but for the most part you will be free of the "problem after problem" syndrome, and can ride and enjoy your new-old bike.

Or take shortcuts, fight with it and you will end up doing it all anyway-- the hard way.

Your choice.

 

Well said Fitz!!!

Shaun

 

Also...it this is your first time working on bikes expect to "create" a couple of problems also (That's what I was dealing with this morning ). I figure you have to learn from your mistakes, and if you don't know much...there are many mistakes to be made :lol:

 

Fitz says "leave NOTHING OUT".
You can take that as gospel. If you're not in for the count, don't start the fight!

 

On the plus side, there is an army of willing volunteers here who want you to get that bike up and running. All you have to do is accept their advice.

 

Just keep reminding yourself-"It's theraputic!"

 

:lol:

 

Shamelessly bumping my own thread so it will get read, I hope.

It's NOT a "problem bike!" I keep seeing "This thing is nothing but problems" "problem after problem."

NO NO no. It's an OLD bike. Those are not problems, they are merely symptoms of neglect and deterioration. They are very predictable, and very preventable. Go through the bike, do it right, or do it the hard way.

You cannot expect to take a 25+ year old bike (or ANY motor vehicle) for that matter, and simply put it back on the road without having "problems." It has to be properly "recommissioned" or you will suffer failure after failure of long-deteriorated parts.

Go back and read my original post in this thread. PLEASE. Rant over.

 

just going on about what fitz said- unlike wine, bike's (especially rubber) do not age well, these bikes are pretty bullet-proof, sure the older electronics can be a pain, and getting the 4 cylinders to work with eachother can be a hassle, but this is no yz490, it will run.

 

THANK YOU FITZ!
I'M MAKING MY WIFE READ THIS THREAD.

Trying to explain things like "you only have to replace
one wheel bearing, why are you doing all five?" or "you just
changed the oil in march" is getting old.
Or the look on her face when she see you pulling the wire loom
apart to hit the connectors with dielectric grease.

Now maybe she won't think I'm completely nuts.

 

take a picture of the look on her face and make it your avatar

 

Anyone ever read ..."Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"...it'was th
70's, ..'th bike you are working on is yourself'...watcha expect from a bike that's about 30 years old, and ya just got it...it's gonna need some TLC...it was probly made b4 some folk on here were born. Show some respect and go through th processes........then you two will get on fine!!

 

I am mostly a "lurker" but I read every post. I have to say..Great "Read" Fitz!! One thing if I may add is the line "MOST" impatient newbie will use when trying to get these bikes back on the road is........ "That's good enough". To put it bluntly.. "That is NOT good enough"!!! Carb cleaning, brakes, electrical, should be done correctly and thoroughly or like stated above, The result will be never ending problems. "The Hard Way".

And if I may add a small rant of my own... not to step on your thread..

The "Search" feature is a great tool and yes some times it takes a lot of reading to find what your looking for. But whats the harm in reading about things you will probably have problems with later. I've only been a member a short time but have seen so many of the same problem posts it's almost sickening. I think that is where the "impatient" part comes in. People want fast answers and not willing to do the "leg" work. Not to discourage ANYONE from posting a problem but going over the same thing a hundred time a week is a little ridiculous. Rant over.
Ride Safe Everyone

 

I think for many of us motorcycles, especially classic bikes, are far more therapeutic than we realize. My son complains that I work too much on it and that I sit and look at it too much, but he does not understand the joy comes from the process as much as the ride. I love to look it over for a while considering the different things I want to change or to consider that others have changed and I consider. I love my success, like the first time I replaced my steering bearings, and learn from my mistakes, like when I was changing the steering bearings and loosened the triple tree and pinch bolts with the tire still attached, or recently learned why my polish jobs did not look as good as the ones the shop did and why.

I read a thread were many could not understand why someone would want to spend so much time building their own gauges to sync their carbs arguing that, in the end you would spend too much time and possibly money building something you could buy or just take to a shop and have them do for you, to me, they are riders not motorcyclists. They should buy a new bike keep it for a year or two and sell it and get another, never then having to worry about maintenance or give more thought to motorcycling than the ride. Go a step further and you see there are thousands of people who try to buy an image getting a Harley and all the clothing and gear they can afford to go with it. I see that a sad on some level. Look at the number of low mileage new Harleys on the market and you see the results of this attempt to become something you are not.

My son now likes to ride and he loves to see how, as I teach him the techniques to make him competent his skills and comfort increase but he won’t lift a finger to turn a wrench, unless I ask for his help. What’s funny about that is that he can play Call of Duty with his friends online for hours and have a little fun but he senses a joy that transcends mere fun with a twenty minute ride in control of such a wonderful machine. He comes back aglow with stories of how the bike felt, sounded, reacted, and how he could sense the changes we made. I took him and a group of his friends all in their late teens and on various new sport bike to the mountains last weekend and the looks and smiles and thrills were in their eyes as I showed them various lines and breaking points and they could see their improvement, both in the seat of their pants and on the video I was taking, but it was I who had the most fun watching as they kids began to stretch their wings, challenge their fears, become more confident and, in some small way, become better men. This was a group of guys, much like me 25 years ago, whose chains were so lose I’m surprised they didn’t come off, never changed their oil, never lubed their chains, all short shifted, were afraid of their front breaks , and all had crashed within the year. But with a little patience and their willingness to learn they are squids no more.

To me, it’s all about the process, I invite everyone to come along for the ride.

 

Slightly, Fitz - well put. I know that I enjoy the maintenance, the problem-solving, JUST AS MUCH as I enjoy the ride. Maybe that's because I'm in a city and am a bit starved for twisties, but there is a supreme satisfaction and identity that I glean from just puttering around my garage.

RiderXJ - I second your sentiment regarding the search feature. I have been reading this board for a year and a half now and very rarely do I have a question that hasn't been already asked.

 

Me too. Now that my '83 is nearly done, I'm having the same problem I had for about the first four years I owned the Norton--- I can't believe it's mine. I sit and look at it way too much, I think...

Re: the video game thing-- I have the same problem with my 15-year old. He LOVES to RIDE his minibike, but considers me to be the pit crew and he's just the driver. He'll pull it into the garage, tell me what it needs, and go jump on the x-Box. Then the 9-year old crew chief and I get to fix it.

The "search" feature is cumbersome when you don't know quite what you're searching for; I really wish that some of our "FAQ Suggestions" articles (Gamuru, RickCoMatic, mine and more) would get moved into "FAQ" which is locked and empty.

 

The most frequently asked question I hear when I'm doing some work on my Bike and not going to play Golf or to the movies:

"Why don't you get rid of that old Bike and get a newer one?"

They don't MAKE a newer Bike like the ones I got. If they did; I might be tempted to sell or trade these and get-on a newer Bike.

Bit, I like being in the garage with the Bike and a rag in my hip pocket.
Keeping the Old Bike running young is part of the magic of why we buy these old bikes, anyway.

 

I used to be like that, before junior high i would love to get my hands dirty with my dad and ride around on stuff, then in junior high, i found out what mmorpg's were (if your children ever say Runescape or World of Warcraft, ground them and make them go outside and do something) Then In highschool i came out of my shell and found atv's and bikes to be more fun, working on them is also fun to me, as slightly said, it's therapudic.... the last days of college I couldnt get much sleep thinking about coming home and being around my bikes...

Do i need a girlfriend? nah.

 

Part of the joy of these older bikes is the maintaining. I bought my first XJ from my brother for an old guitar I had laying around that cost me $30.00. It was a good deal since my brother bought the bike for a pack of smokes!

Needless to say the bike was in rough shape and didn't run and I wanted to learn more about bikes so I had nothing to lose but my time and some money I would have spent on another hobby.

The process was great and I would do it again but as the original "rant" says, you need to have the manuals, do the checklists and leave nothing out. I can say from experience, I skipped some steps and rushed some things and in the end, it cost me a lot of money that I didn't have to spend. It cost me parts I didn't need to buy and it cost me a lot in beer!

Now, I've learned my lesson and keep up to date with the maintenance and some fun projects (like wiring my garage door opener into the bike) and I ride often.

 

Fitz, Thanks for the black and white on the maintenance. I think I will take that advice.

 

Sigh... my biggest problem with the new bikes is they don't look like bikes. They look like space age metal monsters.... I love the look of the dual pipes peeking out of both ends of my XJ. As far as maintanence.... I think I am a little of both... they bike let me know..... the oil coming down out of the valve cover gasket, said I need to be replaced. However while I had the valve cover off. I checked all the shims. ordered 2 new ones to replace the out of spec ones, and finally sanded down and painted the valve cover. Not to mention doing a visual inspection. What I REALLY NEED is another bike. The only thing that sucks is anytime I work on the bike i have NOTHING to ride. Oh well the 83 is coming along.

 

Begin Rant:

I have to say, there are some very valid points here. My father in law gave me my XJ about 2 months ago. It is my first bike, and I don't have a license yet, but I have to agree; it is VERY thereputic.

I recently moved from southern Maine to south central PA and was unemployed for a month with no unemployment check to keep me going. So between the stress of looking for a job and going to tons of interviews, and realizing I would literally be taking a $10 an hour pay cut to move down here to better my family...there was my XJ!!

I have done small engine repair for about 6 years on turf industry equipment, but never on something I actually owned. I used to be afraid of 'turning that wrench' because I didn't want to make something worse. My last boss used to say, "You can't break something that's already broken." Basically, get your hands dirty and you might learn something.

When I first came to this forum there were posts everywhere about carbs problems, strange idles, sputtering at certain rpms, or engines just turning over and over (I've even had a post which addressed the latter), yet certain people never learn that the majority of these problems are caused at the root by dirty carbs even though probably 40% or more of the threads on this forum are all about carb cleaning. And how many of these people want someone else to do it for them at a shop or beg someone in the area to do it for them. NONSENSE I SAY!!! How can you ever take pride in your ride if you're not willing to ask questions, learn something new, and overcome these "endless problems" with the professional advise from the kind folk on this forum, for free!?

Thank you for all the guys on this forum who are willing to help a rookie cyclist like me and never bash guys like me down for asking the seemingly small and dumb questions!

Okay, end rant!

 

I also come down on both sides of this. Frankly I bought an XJ because the price was right and I wasn't certain I wanted to ride. If I decided I didn't like it then I didn't have a lot of money invested and I could unload the bike.

Well two things happened - I came to love riding and the bike itself. I can't see myself never getting another bike...but I also can't see myself ever getting rid of this one.

On the maintenance, I can barely find the time to do the necessary stuff and the discretionary...it has to wait. It's frustrating to try and start something knowing I might not get windows bigger than 2-3 hours at a time spaced over consecutive weekends. 2-3 hours, spread in chunks is really inefficient. As context, I repaired a 5 HP shredder/mulcher engine I have. Should have been a 6-8 hour job. It had to spread to 3 weekends 2 hours at a time. I really enjoy the maintenance, but just being able to "pick" at it is frustrating. And when something does break, it just has to sit until I can get to it. Or, (cringe) I have to pay someone to do it for me.

Okay, this just looks like venting. I'm going to stop before I have to go get some cheese to go with my whine.

 

The "time crunch" and resultant downtime thing is why I have always tried to have at least two operational bikes if at all possible. Everything always takes longer/costs more/is more involved than originally anticipated.

I suppose it wouldn't be necessary if I would just break down and buy a NEW bike; but I haven't found one yet that suits me (at least not that Yamaha will bring to the USA.)

 

I am fairly new here and I do spend some time reading. I was an owner operator and my wife knew my 88 Peterbilt was my mistress, monday through friday I drove it saturady, every saturady I worked on it. Feathers went with me in the truck and she rides with me nearly as often as I ride. My truck was never on a hook so I will put the same care into my ride and it will never be in the back of a pickup or on a flatbed tow truck. I like the ready to help attitude y'all have and someday I will also be able to answer question. Thanks everybody

 

Hank Hill - "I change my oil every 3000 miles or whenever I get bored, whichever comes first"

 

Shamelessly bumping my own thread because I'm seeing posts from a good half-dozen or so new XJ owners who need to go back to the first page and read my original rant, which should have included a link to this: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14581.html as a reality check but I'm not trying to discourage anybody.

I AM concerned that more than one of our "noobs" may not fully understand the need to do a bit more to a used bike than a used car, mainly for safety reasons.

If you're a newcomer, please read the original post in this thread and the one in the link above, and get busy! Start with your rear brake shoes.

(It'll be worth it.)

 

Thanks fitz, i stumbled on this thread and am glad i did, that said i am impatient and extreamly excited to have my ride riding.

I consider myself a little on the lucky side because mine came in boxes and parts with a non running motor(see my thread http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=26979.html) which forced me to take it almost all the way down to bare min to start cleaning and checking everything (along with some mods). life lesson learned even though my wife is a little fed up with the "Project" already.... You need to take your time with these!!

 

I have to confess that my favorite part of maintenance is to do a frame up restoration to as new. If every part is made to perform as new then the machine can be enjoyed without concern. It becomes a matter of routine maintenance. It is not expensive to do it this way if you have the knowledge. These old bikes are pretty simple when you get right down to it. Just a huge amount of elbow grease. You wanna talk therapeutic. As I begin to reassemble, the feeling of pride grows. It looks new and you know you are going to love it when you're done. And then the first time you start it.......well it doesn't get any better.
Again, per Fitz, no shortcuts!

 

Another shameless bump!

There're a whole lot of new folks on lately that really need to read this whole thread; not just my opening rant, but the whole thread.

Help you get your head around this.

 

Very true. When a POS car quits working all of a sudden you don't have to find out fun facts like "how much you can bleed through your palms" or "the weight to surface area ration of ground off body parts"

Fraps, well played. Mine cost me a hand-me-down pair of riding pants that were too big for me.

 

If we were playing Jeopardy, wouldn't the question be:

"When is a "free" motorcycle NOT free?"

 

No...the ANSWER would be "When is a "free" motorcycle NOT free?"

The question, which would be in either the "He Saw Me coming.." or the "Free Junk Removal" categories..would be

"He said I could have it. It ran fine last year and just needs some TLC."

8O
lol

 

TLC=Tons of Loose Cash? (or is it Total Loss of Composure? Total Lack of Constraint?)

 

You truly have to be committed to them. Everyone is apt to find issues they haven't encountered before. I wouldn't consider myself a Robert or Fitz, but I've come to see a fair amount of issues with these bikes.

There are several phases to these things, and Fitz mentions the most obvious, that is no matter how well preserved, it's going to need a thorough going through.....regardless.

The one phase that creeps on some is the maintenance phase....after you get it running right (and it can take some time) you are going to have to maintain it.....

 

show me a bike with 'problems',and i'll show u a bike with character.i love riding,and get as frustrated as the next rider at times when something goes wrong and i cant ride,but the sense of achievement when u fix it,just makes the rides more enjoyable.especially when its taken a while to find the 'problem'.even when nothing goes wrong,i still fiddle with settings sometimes,trying to keep her running sweet.for me its all part and parcel of the enjoyment of owning a bike.
i love to ride,but i love to tinker also.

 

True; and even done right, things will crop up from time to time plus there is always "regularly scheduled maintenance" once you get to ride it enough to actually whack some miles on. All of my bikes have "character" despite being largely reliable; some a tad more than others.

I originally wrote the the piece to address the "something's always going wrong" and "this bike is junk" frustrations often expressed by those who are not being methodical and thorough with their recommissioning attempts. The simple fact is, you can't just start riding a bike that's been "down" for a number of years or you will spend all your time "fighting" it, and get very little riding done. My post was for those who are getting frustrated by the fight; so that they know there IS a way to win.

I prefer turn-key reliability with scheduled maintenance. The only way to get there is to be thorough the first time through. Shortcuts can and will lead to frustration and having to do the same procedure multiple times.

So, for all you new XJ owners who are starting to get frustrated: go back and read the entire thread, along with everyone's comments.

Then take charge of your process.

 

Great post. I just wanted to add a hint on searching the site for information. I have found that the search engine on this site can be a bit hard to use and doesn't return the results you want or you have to search through 100 posts before you find the one that fits what you are looking for.

As an alternative you can use Google to search XJBikes.com. This gives you the flexibility to use Google's powerful search engine. To do this, go to Google.com and in the search box type Site:XJBikes.com your_search_string. Google will return all posts that have your search query.

I like to use the -keyword feature to refine my search. Adding -keyword to your search query will remove from the results any post that contains this keyword. For example, you are doing a search for the words "carb float", you can refine your search by typing "carb float -mikuna". This search will not return any posts with the word mikuna in it.

There are many other features to Google too, just check their advanced help.

 

Bumped this thread again because we have a WHOLE BUNCH of new owners who need to read through the whole thing.

TO ALL YOU "NEWBIES:" A 30-year old motorcycle is NOT the same as a 30-year old car!

When an '82 Chevy suffers a mechanical failure, you coast to the side of the road and get on the cell phone.

A similar mechanical failure on an '82 Yamaha at say, 50mph, can send you to the hospital or worse.

You can't just jump on a 30-year old bike and start riding it. Things need to be attended to FIRST.

Like the brakes.

Please go back and read the original post in this thread.

 

The previous owner of my bike told me the only thing he had done to it for the last 15 years was neglect it. This was fine by me, since tinkering with it was going to be a hobby; the only repair/ restoration/ maintenance that I could be sure of was whatever I did to it.

If I were ever to buy another used bike, no matter how shiny or despite claims by the previous owner, I would assume the same thing. caveat emptor.

 

So very true in almost every instance.

The biggest problem is somebody completely new to motorcycles that thinks buying an '82 Yamaha is like buying an '82 Neon; with no frame of reference a lot of "newbies" simply make the assumption that a used vehicle is a used vehicle, regardless of the number of wheels.

While we know that nothing could be further from reality. And lurking in that "perception gap" are a lot of truly dangerous things, like old tires, delaminating brakes, ancient brake hoses, etc.

 

This is a great thread, thanks for bumping it Fitz. I'm all inspired now, I bought my first bike in the early summer and totally rode my luck.
I read this thread earlier this morning and purchased an oil heater for the garage after work.
I am a non-mechanic but will do all the maintenance this winter. I invested in cheap rain gear and winter gloves and have been toughing it out but we have freezing fog tonight. I was planning on riding year round but I think I may prefer learning to tinker rather than riding in winter...

 

Fitz, if you went to buy a second hand auto, would you test the compression ?

 

Performance car, sports car, especially an old British sports car-- heck yes!

(It's not a case of "would" it's a case of "have." Done it, that is.)

More importantly, if that second hand (or third or fourth hand) auto had been SITTING for any period of time (even on a dealer's lot) the brakes would be attended to before I would start driving it regularly.

It only takes one popped brake hose to create a "brake evangelist."

 

I must say, you would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

That good sir, is the story of my life.

I do all of my own wrench work (even on my '08 VW) and am not about to buy into a rude surprise if I can avoid it.

 

BUMP!

Thread is getting buried, and is seems like a bunch of newbie's are posting about new-to-them bikes with "one or two" problems, trusting what the PO says and looking for quick/cheap fixes.

If you're new here, go back and read the whole thread that BigFitz52 started. Safety is a key issue with a 30 y/o bike, and riding one, even if you just got your license, or were looking for cheap short term transportation, will require you catch up on all neglected maintenance.

You'll be turning the wrench, but with the help of the folks on this forum, you will not be alone.

 

Good thread, if makes me want to go work on and detail mine

 

Thanks guys!

BUMPITTY-BUMPITY-BUMPITY BUMP!!!

WHOLE LOTTA new XJ owners on board that need to read this one starting from page 1.

Please read what I wrote carefully; it could save you a lot of headaches in the future. And as I said there-- it's your choice. It's GONNA happen, how is up to you.

 

Great thread Fitz!
I plan to get my xj running correctly then do a tear down and restore the old girl. One thing I would of never thought of though if not for this site is rebuilding the calipers and master. I don't know why but I don't think it's something you tend to think about replacing.
Great thread and great site!