Starter Circuit problem

Hi everyone... so I have an '82 XJ 650 Maxim. I got it in August, it's been running great... until now. Even when I first got it, occasionally it would refuse to start; pressing the starter button would make the red oil-level light come on, but nothing more. But switching the engine cuttof off / on, or just trying a couple times, and it would then start.

Well, the problem seemed to go away completely until a few weeks ago. It then got worse, and sometimes wouldn't start at all, requiring a jump start. Sometimes if I just held the starter button for like 10 seconds, it would then click on and come to life. Now, well, it refuses to start, and the oil-light doesn't come on; the bike seems to not even know you're pressing the start button.

The starter motor itself works fine, ignition works fine, and I took apart the right grip assembly and the switch itself is electrically fine. I opened the headlight and there's nothing frayed or shorted. There were a few wires hanging in there not connected to anything, but I figured that's for some auxiliary thing? Like there was a red and black lead, presumably for power to something. Right?

Anyway, the left body panel seems to house some whole ignition thing, but I don't think that's what's wrong; the engine runs fine once it starts, and the starter motor works fine if it decides to. So ... some sensor is no good or something's loose or... i dunno. Any suggestions on what to look for, anyone who's had a similar problem, please let me know! I got an electric jacket and am ready to keep on riding!

Thanks!

 

I would suspect your fuse panel. Check to see if all the fuse clips are gripping the fuses tightly. Then check the fuses themselves. My Seca does this little trick occasionally, and though it seems to make no sense, high resistance across the main fuse will cause the starter relay to not engage. It very well could be something else, but check this first.

 

Solenoid.

When "Nothing happens" after you push the Start Button ... the Solenoid needs to be tested.

The first thing you should do is pretend you are "A made guy" and your Boss sent you to visit Solenoid for the money it owes him. Solenoid tells you to go "You know what" yourself.

So, you give Solenoid a good whack! Maybe even two.

Try starting the bike after you have whacked the solenoid once or twice.
If the bike starts to act normal and starts right-up ... Solenoid is the problem. Those Solenoid guys ... when they go bad ... you have to "Take 'im out"!

Short across the two posts on the solenoid with the ignition ON and the Kill Switch in RUN.

If the bike runs ... find a new solenoid.

 

Aha.... thanks! The fuses seem OK. I tried shorting the solenoid to the starter, it started right up. But lots of sparks... yikes! So I guess I need a new solenoid... or can you take it apart and fix it? Are they standard kind of things? Like would they have it at a auto-zone type place? Or you have to order them from yamaha?

 

You can get a new one in the aftermarket. 45-50 Bucks.

http://www.oldbikebarn.com/motorcycle_p ... al&Start=0

I'm sure you can find one for less if you surf around.

 

You can disassemble the solenoid and burnish the contacts to rejuvenate the unit but you will need to desolder the primary winding contacts. If you look back in our archives, you will find a write-up (by yours truly) on how to do this process. No pictures I'm afraid. Hope to rectify that in time. Best of luck to you on that one. Another issue I've seen cause similar problems is corrosion on the starter button. Pull it apart and clean it off with fine grit sand paper. Rinse with alcohol and reassemble.

 

Perplexing!

Hi guys, so I was working on it a bit. First, I took out the relay (solenoid) and checked that out. There are the two small terminals for the coil, that are red and blue. I ran 12V across those bu just directly wiring them to the battery, and it clicked right away. Tried it a bunch of times just to make sure, and the solenoid immediately clicked over whenever it was given voltage.

So that checks out.

Then I tried the button. Upon taking it apart, I thought, Aha! Because it was pretty rusty. So I took it apart, scraped all the rust until it was all shiny copper. Put that together and ... still nothing. Even if I short out the two leads going to the button, nothing happens. I assume the housing part is ground, and upon contact the wire that comes out of the axis of the button gets pulled down to ground, right? Hmm.

So it's neither the solenoid or the button. So something in between the button and the solenoid contact is causing it. Are there more circuits in between? I know that the engine cutoff is working because the bike does run, and there's a click somewhere when I flip the cutoff switch. Neutral light works... kickstand switch works (engine dies if I pull it out in gear)... any other ideas?

I guess I really need to buy a multimeter huh. I have one back home in boston but not here...

well if you can think of anything else to check please let me know! Thanks!

 

Unplug the safety relay. Under the tank. Under the frame center bar ... close to where the tank sits on the rubber shock mount.

If the bike starts with the safety relay pulled ... you have to shake-down the safety-related circuits:

Side stand switch and wiring.
Clutch lever switch and wiring.
Neutral switch and sensor.

With the safety relay pulled; the bike's like a loaded gun. The starter will engage and the bike will start > In Neutral < but, the starter will ALSO engage with the clutch lever NOT pulled ... be careful.

 

Side stand switch sounds like a likely candidate for inspection at this point. Rick has given you a very comprehensive run down. Follow it, he's usually right.

 

I was going to say if you try to start my bike with the side stand down, the oil level light comes on. Whatever switch turns that circuit on and off is probably bad or there's a short in the wiring.

 

i had the same issue this is what rick recommended and oh yea it worked. this is the easiest fix.

 

Well, figured it out. It turned out to be none of the above.

That red oil check light? That's part of the starter circuit, apparently. If that bulb is blown, the BIKE WON'T START. Now don't get me wrong, I love my XJ, but this is a plain old dumb design right there.

Acutally my bulb wasn't even burnt out, it was just not seated in the socket properly.

So... that's what is was. Hah!

Thanks for the help guys. Have fun the last few warm days!

 

Hold on there, the bulb kept you sitting still? How absurd! I'd be greatly annoyed if that was all there was to the problem. Bet you about beat your head against the wall chasing that one. I'd agree with you on the poor design opinion. Bike should be able to run if the ruddy little bugger burns out.

 

Can't be.

If this is your answer to the quiz of why your bike wasn't starting ... the Panel is handing the quiz back to you for another stab at it.

If you found something else ... we're all happy the bike is running.
But, a missing, burned-out or not-seated light bulb in the instrument panel section won't prevent the bike from starting ... or, cause it to shut-down.

If it would ... it would have been one of the first things we'd have had you investigate.

 

It doesn't make sense to me, but that's what fixed it. When I remove the light bulb, it won't start at all. Insert it, and the bike starts up fine. The bike never would shut down, the only problem with it was getting the starter solenoid to fire.

It might be that the diode that's supposed to isolate that bulb from the starter button pulling down to ground is broken? I'm not sure what else caused it to work that way, but without the light, it won't start. With it, starts right up.

Anyone have any wiring diagrams for the bike? Maybe that would shed some light on there being a burnt out part somewhere (diode I'd guess?) that's making it work that way.

 

I have a wiring diagram. It's damn near usless. Black and white on a half page. Looking at it with progressive lenses makes me dizzy. Following a circuit from one place to another, across other lines, as close as to two coats of paint, is a real challenge for these tired old eyes.

You'd think some outfit would have reproduced the diagram in full color and supersized it; like Olsen Engineering did for all the Corvette wiring diagrams.

Good to have you back in-the-game.

 

I've got a color diagram (that I must have found linked somewhere on XJbikes.).

The oil level indicator lamp is in a circuit from the Diode block to the Starter circuit cut-off relay. The wiring diagram doesn't show what is going on in those components.

I wonder if there is a mechanism to prevent starting without oil or without the indicator bulb. I'll have to pull my bulb and see what happens.

 

Possible that pressure against the panel is causing something to make contact? Diode either works or it doesn't, there is no in between so I'm not inclined to suspect it. I've the diagram in front of me and I see the interlock switches and starting relay all share the common line for this circuit. You have taken a good look at all the switches as Rick suggested correct?

 

While I was doing all the work getting my Max restored; I did most of the tuning with much of the bike, including the instrument panel and headlight bucket -- OFF the bike for prep and painting.

I'm quite sure the bike will run even if the whole darn instrument panel is unplugged and sitting on a workbench somplace with a different Zip Code.