Cause for concern (yet another plug question)

Hey all,

First decent run on the bike today (55Km around town, figuring out new work route ). Any-hoo, pulled the plugs to check em this evening and this is what they're like:



Should I stop riding and tune immediately? Seemed to pull pretty well, the thing that caught my eye was the white-ish color close to the ceramic. There's been a few threads lately and if someone wants to make an example out of me thats cool too I'll point out that i just replaced all 8 valve shims on this beast (they were too tight, most by .10 mm or more... Thanks for any advice.

Mars

 

Does anyone have any advice? i'm planning on riding in an hour

 

I'm still a newbie here so take my advice carefully or not at all.

1 - Check all 4 plugs
2 - That one looks very lean - Adjust Piliot screw OUT 1/4 to 1/2 turn and let it warm up and check again
3 - If haven't done so yet - Everyone else will probably tell you to rebuild and sync the carbs

 

Yeah, fix it before you ride. so far you'r just very lean, and if
damage had started to occure there would be little specks of
alum on the plug.
On a happier note. The color change on the ground strap
indicates your timing is good.
Also, strive for a nice even ring of soot at the top of the threaded
business end of the plug.

 

agreed, too lean. But you probably won't see the results in color change without gettting on the highway for a few miles. and yes, one plug isn't enough, each hole is different, one major reason I beleive is the compression varies from hole to hole, slightly different, but different. how's your engine braking? when tuned right, you shouldn't have Much when the throttle's released

 

Thanks for the advice, stayed off of the bike today

All four are roughly the same, I'll grab some more pictures this evening. I figured that i'd need to adjust after the valve shim job, just never had her out to stretch her legs and confirm until yesterday. Now I'm really sorry i missed the carb clinic in London

There's a fair bit of engine braking yamaman, though I thought that was in line with any other 4 stroke.

 

Engine braking will vary between bikes of course.
I look for a smooth motor. whether up or down
throttle she should be smooth and powerful.
You can still have power and roughness within the power
band and thats what I try and "tune out" of the bike.

A rich motor brakes long and slow
A lean motor brakes quick

 

good to know with the mixture screw then, to make it more rich i should turn it clockwise or counterclockwise? (the little screw on the engine side of the carb, currently has a little plug covering it, that's the one right?)

 

counter, But, if the plug is still on there that means the circuit hasn't been cleaned and you could get a false reading if the circuit has crud, the kind that sticks to the walls like cholesterol. your bike could have high colesterol hahaha

 

That condition is:

Clean - Lean. Potentially dangerous.
Your Mixture is so Lean that its going-off like a Flash-Bulb.
It generates too much heat.

Being that Clean usually means you are getting way too much air in with the Mixture.
Look for leaks.

 

so it wouldn't be caused be replacing the shims alone i take it eh? I'll check out the leak angle, time to do a torch test...

I know the carbs probably need to be gone through, but honestly I thought it was running ok as it, and wanted to do some riding and do the carbs in the fall...

 

Oh, ... !!!
That's the real danger of being too Lean.
The Bike will run like a Bat-out-of-Hell.
But, inside the Combustion Chambers ... the Lean Mixture is burning intensely.
Sometimes completely consuming the Oil Sheen needed for Lubrication of the Cylinder Walls.

The Mixture can be so lean that it will generate enough heat to melt the Head or weld a hole through the top of a piston.

Investigate why you are so Lean.
If you don't have air leaks, ...
Investigate incorrect jetting by an ignorant PO looking to add ponies and drag race the bike.

 

Yeah, I wont ride until I've checked for leaks, here's the 4 of them...



Gone to check the carb boots, the tank's off!

 

#4 looks ok but the other 3 need work.

 

Do this, ...
(Cross your fingers)
This is as Flat Rate as any Flat Rate Tuning shortcut ever used.

Measure with great precision ...
The DEPTH of the TOP of the Pilot Screw in your No.- 4 Hole.

Put your No.-1, 2 and 3 ... at the very same DEPTH.
Depth = The distance from the Top of the Pilot Mix Screw Hole down-in to the Top of the Wings on the Screw.

With any luck, ... You'll have all four ... "On the Lean-side" of
Fine-Tuning.

BUT, you need to stay aware of how the Bike is running.
If you bring them all in to match how you have that 4-Hole set, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to give all 4 another couple of degrees Rich.

 

Good idea Rick.

I'd rather have her richer than Bill Gates than leaner than lean cuisine and burn down the engine.

How long should it take to notice a difference in the color of the plugs? I just took a 5K zip around the block. What would the typical recommended screw depth (turns out from bottom), if anyone knows that on top of their heads?

 

Personally, I use 10 miles to be a good warm up distance for a plug chop.

2.5 - 2.75 turns, mattering on your filter type and how clogged your exhaust pipes may be

 

Your #-4 is within an acceptable range; although a bit Lean.

Snip the pointy-end off a Golf-Tee and hold the Tee on the top of the No.-4 Screw.
Scribe a line on the Tee at the top of the hole.

Set the other Screws at that same depth.
You'll likely to need to do some further tuning, ....
But, at least you'll get-away from being Lean.

 

The 2.5 ~ 2.75 Turns OUT from Bottom went by the boards when the Colortune Plug came on the scene.

Many of those who have Colortuned Pilot Mixtures have needed to go beyond the Factory settings to achieve an ideal Air~Fuel Mixture.

 

Thanks again,

I've backed em off, they're all matching 4 now, any harm other than performance for running too rich? Gotta get a colortune stat!

 

It's better to run rich than lean. However, you don't want to run so rich that your fouling out plugs. If they are all matching plug 4 from your post on the first page then I would say your better off than you were before.

How was the performance after the adjustment?

 

Yeah, After a second look at that #4 plug, it lacks the
soot ring. you can see it begining to show on the #3.
But a very tiny adj richer, and like rick said-keep your eyes
(and ears) on how the bike performs.

Yamaman had a pic on a recent thread in which the #1 plug was
a tad rich but the other three were near perfect-if you can get them
close to those your mix'ing will be done.

 

Think a 18 K ride would hurt? Just 80kph max speed where I'm a learner. I could check my plugs when I get into work... She seemd ok yesterday but still seemed really warm, I'm gonna pickup a touch to test this eveniing at any rate.

 

Before I forget too, would an fuel filter restrict fuel flow causing a lean condition as well? I installed one but admittedlt its a small one used for atvs and suck (see through, cone-shaped...

 

Well,

Hopefully i over compensated. I backed the mixture screw out to 4 turns on each carb. bike started fine, idled fine. about 1 mile into my trip i noticed that i was missing on one plug, then like 30 seconds later i wasn't able to pull away from the stop sign without stalling. Someone please tell me it sounds like a richness issue now? i took each plug out and it looks like i'm starting to get a soot ring around the plug seat. I managed to get her home ok (pushing and coasting downhill). Hopefully i didn't realize how sensitive those mixture screws really are.

Tonight i'll set it back to 3 turns as a precaution and hopefully she'll be ok.

 

that fuel filter is OK. yeah a big change in your mixture could certainly cause what happened. you're getting a Colortune right? did you write down where you're screws were? go back there and come out a nickels width each adjustment. what happened to you Has happened to me. part of the process man.

 

Yeah, I'll be getting a colortune allright... The screw was around 2.75 turns out, I'll start there, bring em out a nickels width like you mentioned. Definitely a bit embarrassing but a valuable lesson learned.

 

Here's the latest, some soot is good right?



Started out at 2.75 to be safe, ran better *facepalm*. I just backed out #2 a nickels width as it appears to be still lean, any other suggestions? Guys I know that this is shortcutcity.com, they look better though right? Thanks again for all the input, greatly appreciated.

PS: Hey Vedakin, were you Gamuru in a previous life or sumpin? (Same avatar and all, just askin =D)

 

Nope, and I didn't realize so many people used that avatar. :roll:

*fixed*

 

Until we find-out what in the heck is going on with your Pilot Mixtures, ...
Let's buy some INSURANCE.
Go to an Auto Parts Store and buy a Bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil.

The Ratio for adding MMO to Fuel is:
4 oz. -to- 10 gals.

Poke a tiny hole in the seal of the MMO Bottle and fill-up a Hip-Flask to have with you.

Don't adjust those Pilot Mixture Screws like your running watter for a bath.
You have to "Find" the right setting.
You won't be able to do that in 1/2 -or- 1/4 Turns.
Think of that Mixture Screw as being a Stop-Watch.
One whole turn equaling ... 60 Seconds.
From too Rich ... -to- ... too Lean, might be a matter of just a few seconds.
Not a minute and a half!

 

You've got a great way with words Rick,

I just took another picture of the plugs (and have installed a fresh set). they are looking a lot more brown since I've made some more adjustments, I'll definitely get some MMO, hopefully that's sold in the great white north!

 

Never tried the new plugs yet, but here is the latest...



is the fact that threads are getting sooty something to be concerned about?

 

4 is getting better. The soot is because the Mixture is ever-so-slightly "Cooler" and NOT consuming whatever Oil is present from Cylinder Oil Sheen or the introduction of Oil from Valve Seals or Blow-by that does not look too severe.

4 is at the Lean-end of OK
A second or two of More Richness would be very good.

3 is the same as four without burning any Oil
Needs several seconds of More Richness

2 Way too Lean. The Ceramic Insulator is pure white. And, his buddy, ...

1 Looks like it just came out of the box. Too Lean.

I think I'd lift the Tops off 1 & 2 and see if I could "Suck-up" some Gas through the AIR Jet using a Bubble Syringe.

 

New plugs in, and there's no improvement (BPR7ES -- R for the Canadian Resitor version, same as before). You guys convinced me, I'm going into the carbs, wish me luck.

The funny thing is that since i've been studying the carb pages it's not as scary as I thought, i'll keep you guys posted.

 

If ya want an easy bench sync walk through, this is the one I used, but instead of paperclips I used the "high E" string off my guitar. Small strips of 3x5 index cards work as well.

http://xj650.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-t ... carbs.html

 

Wicked, thanks Vedalkin! bookmark added