Paint won't dry

I wasn't sure if this topic belongs in the general chat forum, but I'd sure like some input regarding a paint issue. Let me say directly that I don't have a lot of experience with body work or automotive finishes.

After much searching for a new tank, lots of frustration and general hand-wringing, I decided to go ahead and repair my marginal fuel tank. There was another thread on this topic. I used a POR-15 cycle repair kit and started by patching holes using the sealer and a little bit of repair cloth. Then a couple of days later, I lined the tank. It looks like a real excellent product. After four days of dry time, I stripped the top of the tank and filled some holes with Bondo. Then I was ready to paint.

I used a Dupont self-etch primer, then a Dupont "build" primer, and finally a black gloss with the hardener that they mixed for me and loaded into an aerosol spray can at a very well-respected automotive paint store here. I laid both the main primer and the finish paint on pretty thick and, unfortunately, it won't dry. Tomorrow will be two weeks since I painted it and it's still just slightly tacky.

On the advice of the paint store guy. I've been wet sanding it every couple of days with 600 paper and putting it out in the sun. When it gets hot, it gets stickier. He says that by opening up the top layer I'm helping it release a little more moisture each time.

I could sand or strip it down, but I'm very concerned about compromising the repairs I made to begin. There are also undoubtedly other thin spots that I could easily open up if I sanded a little too much. It's all very frustrating because, after months of work, I still have not yet been able to this bike.

Does anyone have any other ideas for how to get this thing to dry? Obviously, I'll need to top coat it again but will do so in much thinner coats.

Thanks...

 

I'd ask the folks at the well respected shop if the tank could be baked - - slowly, so it won't bubble.
Your choice is to wait it out, or a re-do. I'd wait. It'll dry.

 

I'd say you set a record for watching paint dry at two weeks straight, cuz paint doesnt dry, water never boils, toaster never pops when you're watching it.

 

Re-paint it with propper 2 pack, it will be touch dry in 10 mins' max.

 

Paint it with what, Wiz?

 

Easy Schooter, I think I cracked a rib.

 

Sorry, but what's that? And do you mean to repaint it in its current tacky state?

 

2 pack is a paint or clear coat with a separate hardener, usually, 2 parts paint, to 1 part hardener & 10% thinners.
What I would do is shoot a 2 pack primer / filler, over what you have, nib down with 600 / 800 wet & dry, then paint it, base coat & 2 pack clear.

 

Could be any of several things combining to prevent the proper
evaperation of the solents within the pain:
In most cases you should use the same manufactuer for the
primer/base/clear etc. Two very excellent companies products may
not be compatible with each other in all cases.

Depending on the thinner or reducer used dry times can very greatly.
But two weeks of course means a more serious mistake has been made.

High humidity can be a big factor in the drying/adhesion of paint.

Under most conditions, two light coats with a 10/15 min flash time is done
before the final wet coat(s).

If you are in a hurrry and try to spray on heavy coats for depth then
the evaporation process is compromized.
Combine that with incombatible primers/sealers/surfacers and it may never come out the way you want.

Even the best paint supply can make mistakes in mixing -it's just human nature.

I used a Krylon rattle can of gloss black one time and even after 3 days
it was too tacky too handle-even though I had used the same type before.

Just like carbs-short cuts will cause more trouble then it's worth.

 

At what temp would it be "baked"? I have a spot where I could set up a "hot box" with a thermostat and let it cook for awhile.

 

Thanks for your responses, Wizard. So with this process, I would be coating over the currently tacky paint? Like I said, I don't know much about finishes, but are you thinking that the hardener in the new paint would someone how accelerate the drying process of what I have? The paint I used had hardener added to it, by the way. I can't remember if I stated that originally.

 

Thanks for your input on this, parts. Do you have any suggestions besides those that have already been offered?

 

Yeah, give Wizards idea a try-if it saves you from a complete
redo then you've saved some time.

As for heat- you want the surface temp on the parts to stay
below 140* but above 110* They sell digital/infrared temp gauge
that you just aim and shoot. you need to stay on top of the drying
process and should turn the parts from time to time to give
the uneven and angeled areas access to optimum heat.

No need for expensive autobody heat lamps-a good large elec space
heater will work well, just be sure the work area is free of dust or
anything that may settle on the parts and get baked into the paint.

Start the heaters about 3 ft away and work them back and forth untill
the closest area reaches about 130/135* mark-than turn every 8/10
minutes or so depending on the shape of the parts.

good luck

 

For how long?

 

encapsulation is the word.

 

Even heavy coated it should dry being baked in the sun on and off for two weeks. Primer's should be allowed to dry first then paint. If you did let the primer dry and put the paint on too heavy the tank would have runs all over the place and you would want to repaint it anyway.

It sounds like the shop forgot to put the hardner in the paint or they did not put enough. If they did then the paint can wasn't shaken long enough to mix paint and hardner.

Even if you do get it to dry, if theres not enough hardner the minute you spill gas on the tank the paint will probably just come off.

I'd sand the paint back down to the primer and shoot it again. You will probably be doing it anyway.

If you use 600 grit you will be taking a while to sand the tank down to primer. Use heavier grit sandpaper until you hit the primer and then smooth the rough areas on the primer with 400 or 500 grit. You can always use red spot putty on the primer to fill in minor imperfections and wet sand the tank with the 500 grit sand paper on a sanding block.

When its time to start painting read the paint directions for shooting the first coat and successive coats. Some times your better off putting a tack coat down then going back over it within 5 to 10 mins. When you spray you should be from your pincky to your thumb between spray can and part your painting. Start and stop spraying on and off the piece each time you make a pass. Remember thinner paint coats dry faster, it may take more coats but you will be able to control the paint and end up with a smoother finish without runs. Remember to sand between coats for better adhesion. You don't want to end up with a scuff and buff paint job that peels in a month.

If you really want more depth to your paint use a base coat/clear coat. You will need a compressor and a good spray gun to do this and wet sand between each coat .

 

The guy at the paint shop said that it would eventually dry even if no hardener had been added at all. You don't think so, though, huh?

As for repainting it, yes, that will have to happen regardless. The paint store mgr said he'd provide additional paint at no cost. The thing that worries me about sanding it down are weak and thin spots near the seams. That's all being held together by the POR-15 tank liner material and I really don't know how much direct sanding that can take.

Thanks.

 

you are not listening, shoot 2 pack primer / filler over what you have got, then you sand that, put that to the paint shop guy, see what he says.

& Handyman, you shouldn't need to wet sand btween base & clear.

 

I'm trying to respond courteously to everyone who posts with a suggestion. As you know, it can be very hard to evaluate who really knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. Also, it seems like there are often strong but divergent opinions about how to do something properly. Plus, some people don't read the whole thread or at least not very carefully...

So, I do respect what you're telling me and appreciate the response. I will definitely be discussing your option with the paint shop mgr but haven't had a chance to do that yet. I'll report back, though.

Thanks again.

 

I would have accepted the fact that the paint wasn't going to harden, cleaned it off and started over after figuring why it failed.
Oh and yes, I've been there recently and that's just what I did.
For the first batch I did not add enough catalyst, so I recalculated the mix ratio. I got it right the second time.
Bill

 

Sorry for the late responce. Unfortunatly like all things with
variables ( type of paint,# of coats , etc) drying time is hard to estimate.
Depending on the size of the part(s), quality of the heating system, humidity, it may be as little as 20 min or an hour or more ( speaking in terms of motorcycle parts- not cars).
You just have to stay on top if it and check things from time to time.
This is one of those things learned from a lot of practice.

I wish I could be of more help but I've just started learning how
to professionaly paint myself and we're really learning together lol.

 

Understood. Thanks!

 

I wouldn't keep painting over a wet or tacky surface with more primer/filler & eventually paint over a surface that doesn't want to dry.

If it isn't dry in two weeks theres no hardner.

You can always take it to a paint shop and ask them questions. Bring the tank explain to them whats been done and see what they say. You might take a razzing but it can't hurt to ask them. They can actually see the tank and recommend the appropriate action.

Thats just my two cents worth. Good Luck and keep everyone posted.

 

if you don't take it back to bare metal your just asking for trouble,
ever hear that surface prep is 90% of painting, well you just threw that out the window
if you paint over that mess you might as well use a brush

 

I agree with you 100% Polock. Myself, I could rip the paint off the tank in no time with a flap wheel. But then again, thats just my two cents.

 

I would agree %100 with Polock!! As for my level of knowledge ..I'll let my work speak for itself..


Here's the photobucket album for this bike





I'm no pro, but I know that if you don't get the bulk of that paint off you're asking for trouble. Take your time sanding off the paint and just be gentle around your seam areas. If you want some advice from some real pros check out this custom paint forum http://www.custompaintforum.com/forum/forum.php These guys are as helpful with painting as the folks here are with XJs... can't go wrong there!
Just a thought here, but if these paints are being pre-mix and 'canned' so you can spray them like a rattle can...maybe your supplier mixed them incorrectly..??
In any event, better luck on the next paint job. I know how frustrating it is to have to start over :?
p.s. When you paint next time, remember multiple thin coats is better than 1 heavy coat. Let your primer dry between coats so that it is dry to the touch. Wet sand your final coat of primer with 600 grit. wipe clean with a tack cloth then wipe it down with a paint dewaxer/prep cleaner. when you lay down the finish coat lay down a light first coat. let it dry to the touch. Your next coat should be a little heavier ( but not heavy) let that dry to the touch then lay down a third coat . This last coat can be a little heavier, just to the point that it doesn't run. Let dry then wet sand 800 / 1200/ 1500 /(and lastly 2000 if you want) try to always sand in the same direction ideally with water running while you sand. Using a rubber block works good to get a nice flat finish (texture wise, not shine wise) Lastly buff out with a good buffing compound and she'll shine like a new penny! Theat's the process I use, but you want to pass it by your paint supplier too...

 

mad bohemian sweet paint job enough said your work speaks for itself. Nice old school crushed velvet look did you use the saran wrap on that?

Sorry about hijacking thread

 

Yeah, well I've already got trouble, (as I've described in detail) - a tank that had lots of holes now held together by POR-15. If I have to compromise the quality of my paint job to protect the integrity of the tank, that's a no-brainer for me. Is it an ideal situation? No. I would have liked to have found a better tank then have it professionally painted, but I couldn't afford to do that.

 

Thanks handyman! I used a marbelizer paint from HOK with a plastic grocery bag to give the texture

 

Thanks, Mad Bohemian. And I agree that your work is beautiful!

 

If you read his post from the beginning you would see that the tank has a very dubious fabric, I found a similar problem with a tank I painted for a member, where the more I rubbed it down the more problems emerged, so I shot the 2 pack primer / filler over what was there (4 coats of very indifferent paint) this goes off rock hard & you can prep the surface, regardless off what is underneath. In a perfect world back to bare metal is the way to go.

 

Well if it's too fragile to sand wipe it down with thinner the soft paint should come off and then spray it with truck bed liner

 

Here's a tank on ebay,

If it fits your bike make the guy an offer and end your troubles. It sounds like the tank is swiss cheese anyway and probably unsafe, if the por-15 is actually holding it together. Tank should have had the structural integrity repaired by welding or brazing. If sanding is going to disturb it vibrations and hitting bumps while riding sure isn't going to help. you might end up with gas all over you and the bike.

And yes you can repair a tank by welding or brazing as long as you clean all remnants of gas and fumes from the tank.


Item number: 370405833396 XJ 550 fuel tank $59.00 or make him an offer.

 

I'm not willing to purchase a tank that I can't inspect in person. I could very well end up with something in similar condition to what I have and, even if I could return one that I wasn't happy with, they are expensive to ship.

I already have quite a bit of money invested in my tank and I do not believe that it will be unsafe. The POR-15 is extremely strong but it's not thick. I don't think that vibration and sanding pose the same risk. I might consider sanding down to primer, though. The paint thinner idea is also interesting. I learned this morning that the paint shop guy is on vacation this week so any consultation with him about the options that have been presented here will have to wait until Monday.

Thanks again.

 

I'm just providing you options.

I've used Por-15 in the past so I know how expensive and time consuming to prep and seal the tank not to mention drying time.

As I said before paint probably wasn't mixed right at shop, I'd try and get the cost of the Por-15 out of them too for all the trouble.

Good Luck

 

I appreciate that. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

 

I thought I'd update this thread and let you know what has happened with my painting odyssey. I investigated the two pack primer option with the paint store mgr, but he said that it couldn't be loaded into a spray can. Since I have no air compressor and no friend with that kind of equipment, (no friends at all, to be honest - sniff, sniff), it was clear that this wasn't a solution I could attempt myself.

When, after a month, the paint was still not dry, I bit the bullet and decided to sand it down to primer. Sanding is not really an accurate description of what I did. It was more like rolling it off in gummy strands. I had to be pretty careful because of the delicate nature of the tank repairs (see earlier posts). It took about 4 1/2 hours.

The paint guy mixed a new can of paint with the proper amount of hardener and I put on three light coats plus a little heavier one at the end. I was pretty chicken to lay it on too heavy, though, so the finish wasn't the greatest. That was two weeks ago, I think.

Yesterday I spent several more hours, first wet sanding with 2000 paper, then working it over with rubbing compound (all by hand). It's not perfect but it looks pretty good. I think I need to hit it with a finer finishing polish of some sort to get rid of streaks, etc. I tried Turtle Wax Polishing Compound from the parts store this afternoon. I think that actually had the opposite effect in the area I tested, so I went over that area again with the rubbing compound. I'll post a photo when I'm done.

The good news is that the tank doesn't leak! That was a HUGE relief. After working on this thing over a six week time span, I was really trying to prepare myself for the worst, just in case.

Thanks again to everyone who posted with suggestions and tried to help me through this almost lost cause.

 

glad to hear you got the tank painted. Thanks for the update.

buffing by hand is a bitch. You can pick up cheap buffing and polishing pads to go on a variable speed drill to help with the process or rent a buffer. I'd use a lambswool pad.

Just don't burn through the paint and be careful around the edges and contours of the tank.

 

I guess I'll have to read up on that. Yet another thing I don't know anything about...

Thanks.

 

If you have a harbor freight near you, you could pick up cheap pads there and a variable drill for that matter. A real buffer can burn through paint in no time. You have to keep it moving and be really careful near corners and edges.

Its never to late to learn unless their throwing dirt on you when your six foot under.

Just take your time and have fun doing it. The journey is the fun part, besides when you finish you'll have to find something else to do anyways.

I can tell your a tinkerer, in fact everyone on this site is or else we'd buy new or newer bikes and not have to work on them to get them in tip top shape.

 

Looks like buffing is going to have to wait. I can't believe it, but this morning I went into the garage and saw that I have a fuel leak. It looks like one of my POR-15 external patches has failed. It's near the petcock and leaking very slowly. At first I thought the petcock itself might not be sealing so I tightened that up a bit. Now, however, I can see that it's actually coming through underneath one part of the patch.

VERY discouraging...

I spoke with a guy at POR-15 and he's going to comp me some of their POR-Patch which is apparently a caulk. He's pretty confident that this should be able to fix the leak. Man, I hope so. This has turned into one project where the "fun part" is getting pretty hard to come by.

 

Another update. This time I'm no longer discouraged. I'm mad!

The little leak I had grew during the afternoon. Eventually it wasn't just leaking through one small patch, it was coming through a seam and even bubbling paint through other holes that had been patched.

The POR-15 tank sealer kit DID NOT WORK! I followed their directions to the letter. I called their customer support line with specific questions before I started in. I even EMAILED them pictures of the tank before I purchased the product to make sure they thought it was repairable. They assured me it was so long as I patched the holes first.

The tank is a total loss. I can't even begin to count the hours I've wasted, not to mention the money I've spent. Some of you warned me not to go through with this. I guess you were right.

 

I'm sorry to hear about this I was hoping you would be all set. I feel your pain.

Theres got to be someone on this site in your area that has a good tank for for cheap.

Keep us updated.

 

Had the tank been sealed before? I have found if the tank had a poor seal job done before, forget it.

 

Thanks, guys. The tank had not been sealed previously but it was in rough shape. I looked for a replacement for a long time but couldn't find one within my budget that I could either inspect personally before buying or felt really confident about. After a few people on the list gave me encouragement about POR-15, and once I'd had the company confirm from my photos that it was worth doing, I reluctantly went ahead with it. It sure looked like it had done an awesome job.

I honestly could not have been more thorough in my application of the product. I spent a full two hours rolling that sealer around in the tank as it dried and thickened, draining out everything I could as they described.

 

I give up. I just bought a tank on eBay. It looks decent and if it leaks I can send it back. I just couldn't wait any longer. I've been working on the bike since April and haven't ridden it once!

 

I wish you luck with this tank. Hopefully you will be riding soon.

 

There aren't many of us that haven't spent many unplanned weeks getting our bikes running. Each one's experience differs from the rest. For all the time not riding and dealing with a particular problem, a skill set developes that would normally take much longer (or never). I wouldn't trade one hour of what I learned fixing my bike for a good week of riding.

 

You make a good point, Lou, and I do enjoy the learning process. However, I also have a real affinity for solving problems, so having even part of a project go down in flames never feels too great. My replacement tank is supposed to arrive on Saturday so hopefully I'll be feeling better soon!

One more note about the POR-15: The company is being very responsive and decent about the whole thing. They aren't sure why the product failed in this case, but they're refunding my money and also giving me a credit towards future purchases. As you might imagine, I'd be somewhat hesitant to use the tank liner again, but I'm sure I'll use their paints and other products in future projects. Anyway, I give them props for the way they're handling it.

 

Hopefully, this will be the last entry for me on this thread. My eBay tank arrived and, although pretty nice on the outside, there was much more rust than described in the product description. After the seller offered me a full refund or a $25 rebate if I wanted to keep it, I decided to try and remove the rust. I did using using the electrolysis method described at the end of this thread.

I may eventually paint the tank but, as you might imagine, I'm pretty eager to do a little riding and it's in fairly nice shape. It's a HUGE relief to have this bike running. Thanks again to everyone who posted with suggestions and encouragement!