Bone headed move means big trouble with my Starter Gears

Well Guys, I did it now. I was just about there. All I had to do was take off the starter, clean it up and reinstall it and my 550 maxim would have been totally restored. But, I made a rookie mistake and the bigger gear with the 2 little gears inside of it, (the ones that the starter gear meshes with, got jammed out of place down the hole, towards the bottom of the engine. It's stuck down there now, out of position and I can't even see where the little gears ended up. Does anyone know how to access the inside of the case where those gears are located? I have a feeling that I am going to have to remove the engine and turn it upside down to get to them. Am I correct in this assumption? Any sage advice would be greatly appreciated. I have spent so much money and so many hours on this project, I just can't give up now. Lord knows I want to though! Thanks in advance. Ricksta

 

i'm not sure what you're describing, exactly - but do you think a "magnet-on-a-stick" would do the trick?

 

I'm not sure I understand what happened, here, either.

Are you saying the IDLER GEAR got free from the Shaft and fell down inside the Cases.

That would not be good.

Although I not sure I really understand what has happened, ... I'm already feeling your pain.

Things that get dropped into places where retrieval is near impossible often don't make the whole trip down too the Sump.

I think you are going to have the need for a Fiber Optic Flex-Shaft Bore Scope.
((Rental??))

 

O.K. when you remove the starter there is a gear on the end of it that goes into a hole in the engine. Inside that hole there is a gear with 2 little gears inside of it. Those are the gears that are out of place. The bigger gear is stuck firmly where I can still see it. I tried to pry it up but it won't budge. Do you think if I take the engine out that I will be able to access these gears or should I just sell the bike for parts.

 

Can you post a pic? I looked at the parts diagram and the only small gears are in the starter. They should have been removed when the starter was taken out. The starter gear makes up to the starter clutch in the engine case. Can't see any little graer in there.

 

I agree. The planetary gear set you are describing is contained inside the starter housing. You should be able to unbolt the starter and pull it off with nothing inside the cases moving, dropping etc.

The only way those planetary gears would end up inside the engine is if you disassembled the starter, removed them and pushed them through the hole in the case. That would indeed be a "rookie mistake".

 

I'd be doing the "duck paddle" and "bump" trick before I let all the hard work go to waste. Of course you need to find the loose cogs first.

Have fun with it !

 

Ricksta ...

Lets get organized.
We are NOT sure what you are dealing with.
Look at this Schematic and tell us what happened:

 

I believe what he did is disassemble the starter in situ rather than remove it as a unit. Best to wait for Ricksta's own reply following Rickomatic's example though. Just had that urge to chime in half cocked.

 

I'm puzzled.
I have a vision of one of the Planet Gears down in there... for some reason.
That's a stunt that would be hard to do.

I don't think you can disassemble the Starter without pulling it.
I'm not ruling-out anything for this case, though.

I am reminded of a time back in the 70's where I watched some guys make a tool to retrieve a dropped spacer that bounded down inside a Honda motor.

The "Reach" wasn't a 'Straight-shot' ... so they fashioned a Tool together for the job.
A stripped twig from a Weeping Willow with an Electro-magnet taped to the end.

With the Magnet off they were able to maneuver the magnet down close to the Spacer.
Then they attached the Magnet's wires to a Dry Cell.

A real "McGuyver-Style" set-up.

 

I really appreciate all the help. Is that the schematic for a 1981 XJ Maxim 550? I can't see the 2 little gears, inside of the bigger gear, where the spindle meshes. I do not have a way to send pictures. But, I made this mess so it is up to me to clean it up. Just like I did with the electrical system, I guess I am going to have to go through every inch of the motor now. Oh well, it is a great way to get completely familiar with my bike. I will definetly let you all know how it goes. Thanks again, Ricksta

 

Wouldn't this area be accessed by removing the clutch cover?

 

From his description, ... although STILL vague ... I have a sinking feeling that a Starter Motor Planet Gear has somehow found its way down into the space where the Starter mounts.

Not good news.
We need a photograph.

It's hard for me to imagine how that happened.

 

cliperskipper, no it's bolted on top. There should be a fat wire going to it from the starter solenoid/relay covered by a little rubber boot where it bolts on to it's terminal.
It's on top of the bottom end case to the rear of the cylinders and below the carbs.

 

I know for sure the starter housing was still closed up when it came out. I then took it apart and cleaned it. what I saw as I inserted the end of the starter into the hole was a planetary gear with 2 little gears inside it. I swear it seemed to be fixed there right inside the hole. Where the spindle end of the starter meshed perfectly, when it was inserted. Then by twisting the starter accidently, the gear got stuck down the hole out position. I did remove the cluch cover, but there is only a small opening to where I need to get. does anybody think I should remove the engine to gain access to the inside of the engine case, where the starter goes in?

 

As Rick says see if you can post some pics of this.

 

Ricksta:

It looks like it's going to be me who has to say: "Yes"!

Brother, I feel for you.
This one is a punch below the belt.
You could go through all the trouble of turning the Bike upside-down and removing the Sump ... only to have that piece go find someplace else to hide.

Unless somebody chimes-in with some miracle-way of getting to that little part.
You'd do well to get somebody to help you.
Borrow a Compressor and and an Air Ratchet ...
Stand-there and say: (You-now-what Me)
Then, go get it.

 

Hey Guys,
Here are some pictures of my starter gear and starter. Does everything look correct from what you can see?

 

Well, ... I say that Starter Clutch Shaft is loose and the IDLER Gear is getting chipped on the Drive Cogs because it floats out of alignment ... due to the Hex Nut on the Clutch Side not being Torqued and having the Tabs of the Safety Keeper bent-over the Flat keeping it from staying-put under the rotational stresses of Starting and running.

I think the end of that shaft not being drawn-up tighter on that Nut is causing the Whole assembly to ""Wobble"" because free ply on the Bushings and Thrust Washers is allowing the Shavt to rotate untrue.

The factor which makes me think the issues I have stated
is the amount of Threads showing on the Center Inside Diameter
of the Starter Shaft Securing Nut and what appears to be a shadow caused by that Big Nut being Loose on the Locking fixture.

 

I tend to agree with Rick, unless it's just the angle of the photos.

Here's a 550:



In your pic, I don't see a tab washer on the nut on the gear to the upper right of the clutch. Is the big nut loose?

In your first pic, are those teeth chipped, or is it just the shadow?

In your second pic, I can see that you need to attend to the clutch too. Those friction plates look OLD. (Sorry.)

Other than the concerns raised by me and Rick, everything else looks to be OK.