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Starter clutch-Major repair

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Galamb, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Since going to P Dover my starter is just spinning. The only way I can get her started is by a push start.
    Makes you wonder why this couldn't wait for just another month. When the rainy season starts. And then I could start ripping the engine apart.

    My other solution could be, just to buy another engine and slowly work on this one. Up here in Canada it is too expensive. So, I would have to drive to the States to look for a better priced one.

    I read all the instructions here and there is no short cut, will have to split the case. It will be my first. So, you guys be ready for all my questions. :D
     
  2. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You didn't just switch brand or type of oil did you?
     
  3. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    bigfitz,

    no, I didn't switch different brand or type of oil. But I'm due for an oil change.
    Yesterday she started 3X without any hesitation. I started to think may be an oil change would resolve this.
     
  4. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Could be. It also wasn't 90*F yesterday like it was on the 13th.

    Sure beats tearing the bike apart.
     
  5. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Thanks bigfitz for your reply. It sure was hot on the 13th and having the wife in the back the maxim worked a little harder.

    Looks like this morning will be a good day to change the oil. Calling for rain in the evening and tomorrow.
     
  6. Militant_Buddhist

    Militant_Buddhist Member

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    mileage?

    It sounds weird but when my starter brushes were really shot the clutch wouldn't engage properly. Bum battery could do the same but I get the impression you're better than that ;)

    Same symptoms you describe. Lights all come on strong, battery tests fine, push the button and starter just spins and spins without catching or only catching once in many tries and then not being able to crank the engine much at all before disengaging and spinning some more.

    In talking with other folks with other bikes about that, some had had similar experiences and some even caused by corrosion on contacts anywhere between battery posts and starter (solenoid mayhaps)

    Checking the brushes don't cost you nothin' but time and they're remarkably easy to access.
     
  7. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Militant_Buddhist

    My bike started when she was cold. I just had the spinning on that one faith full day.

    She started good today and I changed my oil and filter. Then it started to rain and couldn't take her out for a longer ride. And see how she would start when she was warm.

    Was going to check the brushes in the starter this spring, but the good weather came and had to put all the things I had off, back together. My guess is not the brushes.

    This winter with more time, that will be the next move.
     
  8. Militant_Buddhist

    Militant_Buddhist Member

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    hmm... maybe, maybe not. Just throwing it out there. If one of the two is worn it will first present as an intermittent problem and it gets worse if the battery is also low. I just wanted to throw it out there so you would check it out for free before you dug in and started replacing starter clutch parts that may or may not be the problem as well. I'm fairly poor (though most of my spare cash DOES go to my bike) so I make a point to really have my diagnosis dialed in and certain before I start buying stuff.

    I've also seen the springs that push on the brushes come out or break presenting a VERY erratic problem.

    Best of luck and we're here if ya need us (have I been around long enough to talk like that? lol)
     
  9. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Militant_Buddhist

    I'm like you. Ask questions and read a lot before I go out and spend $$. Then, as my last resort I will dig in and find the problem.
     
  10. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Militant_Buddhist

    Well, she acted up again after stopping off at a friends' house. It sure was hot yesterday.

    I'm praying she'll last for another month. Then I can look into splitting the case.

    In the mean time, I'm taking the wife with me.

    Behind every successful man there is a pushy woman. LOL
     
  11. mdee

    mdee Member

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    Galamb –
    What oil brand / type / viscosity do you use?
    Was the old oil and new oil the same?
     
  12. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    mdee, I been using Castrol - Motorcycle oil SAE 20W-50 for the last 4 years. Never had any problems with it.
     
  13. mdee

    mdee Member

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    What timing, I was within minutes of buying Castol 20W-50 MC oil.
    Castrol MC 4T (no synthetic) is what I was planning to buy.
    Castol website shows five types of MC 4T, only one contains no synthetic.
    Which flavor of Castrol MC oil are you using?

    I have had starter clutch issues for many years. My issue occurs only when bike is hot.
    I have been trying to deduce from XJbike forums how oil selection, change intervals and weather can contribute to this issue. I expect oil plays a part along with other mechanical failings. I am hoping oil selection can help reduce the issue. I have come to believe oil viscosity is the most significant factor (in regards to starter clutch) in oil selection. I also believe 20W-50 to be a good choice. (So you have left me still pondering).

    I used Specrto Gold (part synthetic) for many years in past. Then car oil and infrequent use of bike and oil changes. The latest I put in was Valvoline MC 4-Stroke 20W-50 and the s-clutch behaved good. But then I drained one qt replaced with 10W-40 car oil (not energy conserving) and added 4-5 oz of Seafoam and the s-clutch will now slip occasionally when bike is hot.

    Have you used oils containing synthetic in past? Or now?

    I found a few good examples (on XJbikes) of people using full synthetic and having immediate s-clutch issues. Then switching back off synthetic and the issue resolves. Although I have not concluded the issue is caused specifically by synthetic – possible the viscosity presented to the s-clutch by use of synthetic (guessing really).
     
  14. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    First off, I highly recommend against dumping any quantity of SeaFoam into your crankcase. Remember the CLUTCH clutch lives in the same oil too.

    Secondly, if you've been using Castrol 20W50 motorcycle oil, or Castrol 4T 20W50 then I highly doubt it's the cause of the starter clutch issue.

    I use Spectro (non-synth) 20W40 interchangeably with Castrol 4T 20W50 (when it get really hot) in both my 550s with no problems. I had Castrol 20W50 in my Seca for the PD trip with no issues, and mine was 420 miles, round trip.
     
  15. mdee

    mdee Member

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    bigfitz52 – Which of the Castrol 4T oils do you use?
    Too many types of oil on the market. Need the details.
    Castrol website lists FOUR 4T oils and all but one have some synthetic. 3 of 4 of the 4T oils are available in 20W-50. I suspect the bigfitz52 is not using oil containing synthetic?

    I am not an additive junky. I tried Seafoam (4-5oz, not the whole bottle) to see how it may improve s-clutch issue. I don’t think it did any help for s-clutch. (Maybe I SHOULD have used the whole bottle – just kidding :)

    bigfitz52, I think your choices in oil make sense. If it’s viscosity (and I expect at some low viscosity it would be) contributing to the issue, then 20W-50 w/o dilution I think would be best application.

    On a side note:
    One thing I found to be confusing about the marketing of synthetic oils is many tout the benefits of quicker oil flow at startup. Isn’t FLOW a function of viscosity? So are they saying pick same viscosity Dino vs (it’s a sin) and the syn will FLOW faster – uh?
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    I would also recommend against crankcase additives, particularly if you are going to ride with them in it! They are for flushing only! The only exception I will make in this admonition is Marvel Mystery Oil (used as directed), and then only for a few light miles. This means no gettin' on it or hotdoggin'. Slow and gentle around the block (or a few) a couple of times to get it worked into the system and hot. Then drain and replace with good oil (and a new filter).
    I have run Castrol 20-50 (the car stuff too!) in my XJs for years (15+)without any problems whatsoever. I used to run Spectro until they started adding Golden to it and the price went up right along with it (guess they were serious about the gold part). Two engine teardowns since (stupid starter chain guide, not caused by oil mind you) and nothing but clean happy engines to show for it.
     
  17. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Currently the one I use is the completely conventional 20W50. Like Robert, I've run "car" Castrol 20W50 since Christ shot pool and never had a problem; I switched to the 4T product when the "car" oil started their sludge-fighting campaign.

    That being said, I've got some Castrol 4T ACT>EVO 20W40 semi-synthetic that is supposed to be specifically for high-revving four cylinder bikes like ours. I'm going to try it as the cooler fall weather approaches and see what happens. It claims to give clutches a warm fuzzy; we shall see.
     
  18. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    bigfitz52
    just a word on my starter clutch. Now with this cooler weather, you won't believe it. She starts ok. A little sluggish at the first try, but she kicks in on the second or third. If she behaves just a little longer,the carbs are coming off.
    Still debating to start splitting the case.
     
  19. jeffcoslacker

    jeffcoslacker Member

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    The overrunning element in mine "wheezes" real loud after the engine catches on a cold morning.

    Did yours ever do that leading up to this?
     
  20. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    jeffcoslacker

    no, it never did that. Just she was ready to start, then it was spinning. Must have been the heat. 90F
     

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