What's wrong in this picture?

Hello,

I've got a 1982 XJ650, and I just ordered my workshop manual. The following pictures are of the carburetor and something I'm concerned about. I have no experience in mechanics whatsoever, but I'm going to try to fix this bike. Anyway, the tubes or pipes (I'm not sure what they're called) aren't connecting because they're too short, thus causing an air leak. What are these things called? I want to replace them if possible.

 

they're most likely just not lined up right. if it's all stock parts it should fit. I dunno, maybe with some bigger pictures I could see better

 

reduce the pics to 500 wide max.

 

Dang. Pics came out too big, but you can still see the problem I'm talking about.

 

Fixed it!

 

What if that's not the problem and for some reason the previous owner jacked it up? What are those black things called?

 

if you're talking about the rubber between the airbox and the carbs then they are air joints, the rubber between the carbs and the motor are intake manifolds.

common parlance for both of these is "boots" with an added clarifacation as to whether you are talking carb to motor or carb to airbox. Rick will jump on you though and insist at the least that the carb to motor ones be refered to as intake manifolds. It DOES help clear things up to keep the terminology straight. thanks for asking.

Yours do look like that are missing the recesses for the clamps to go on but I haven't seen what yours are truly supposed to look like so I can't be 100%

It is helpful if you put info about your bike in your sig line so folks trying to help don't have to ask every time. 5M's should do.
Make Model Mileage Mods Misc... oh and the year.

 

Those dont really look that much like the boots do they?

 

I believe it's carb to airbox. Yeah, looking up boots on google looks similar to the black hoses that connect the airbox to the carburetor.

Umm...are the recesses expensive to replace so I can place the clamps on? Is there a formal name for them? i.e. part number.

 

Did you by chance pull the box out or back so you could pull the carbs out? Any chance its not all the way in?

 

I'm not sure. I just got it last week. I tried to take the carb out, but I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. But I tried yanking on the boots to make them cover the carburetor part to no avail.

I'm waiting for my workshop manual to come in to figure it all out, but would like any advice on what parts to order so I can get to work.

 

I won't have any fun at your expense for that one. I mean that most carb boots have a shape to them which helps keep the hose clamp in place. This is a pic of a totally different boot but gives the idea of what I mean
Note the ends, where the clamps are.
yours appear to be smooth on the ends which strikes me as odd. not impossible or necessarily broken or wrong but I dunno, just odd.

anyway I'd get the book in hand and make it your bed time reading for a week or three before spending any money. I'm pretty sure there isn't anything actually missing from your bike. Those buggers are notoriously hard to line up and fairly like too is that your airbox is shifted into some funky position.

 

From what little we CAN see, I would say those are not the right boots. The stock boots would have a "flange" to more or less trap/guide the clamps.

Homemade airbox boots are somewhat of a "fad" since the stock ones can be so bitchy at times to get on/get to stay on.

I think you been done in by a PO.

Parts fiche: http://www.babbittsonline.com/pages/par ... fault.aspx

(Not necessarily recommending those folks as a source it's just that their fiche has better pictures than Yamaha's site.)

 

I agree 100%. No ribs to hold a clamp on the carburetor side and no flanges on the air box side. Look like pieces of inner tube.

They dry out with age and get very difficult to reinstall on the carburetors. Looks like somebody tried to make his own replacement.

Send a PM to chacal or email him at info@xj4ever.com. He'll hook you up with just what you need and you'll think he shipped them before you even ordered.

 

By the corrugated look of the end ones, I'm guessing radiator hose, and I'll agree the PO got you !
There is a cheap-O fix that involves 1 1/2" plumbing couplers for $12

 

according the parts fischer. they are called joints. the front ones are carb joints. we call them intake boots. cost is roughly $65. the back ones are called air cleaner joints. cost is roughly $17.

chacal might have a better price.

you've got one curly tube. and looks like the others are some type of hoses. like radiator hoses.

they don't cause any air leaks. they just aren't sucking in filtered air from the air filter completely.

 

Totally Disney.
Somebody Mickey Moused that but good.

Some Airbox Boots will Cure the Fitting of the mis-matched Hoses.

Just when you think you'd see them all.
Check that the Box is still Fastened to the Frame.

 

What's a PO?

 

@MiCarl: I've already contacted Chical about some other parts, thanks for the suggestion.

@TimetoRide: Will putting on plumbing couplers be just as bad? Would that be mickey mousing it again? Is mickey mousing necessarily a bad thing?


Thanks for all the input so far. I'm learning so much from this experience!

 

Previous Owner. Quite often a hamfisted monkey with no torque wrench or concept of metric fasteners.

 

Ah, that's simple. I was trying to fit some derogatory terms in there, haha.

 

Bargomer,

Your signature says " Currently not accererating, Overheating, Giving you grey hair"

Please Note: its important that the air box boots are in place and seal properly. For sure if the carbs are jetted stock. That bike will run very lean & HOT and could have problems later if not corrected soon. Len (chacal) would have the proper ones to fit.
If you are on a tight budget you can slip some plumbing connectors in there for right now. I saw a guy who used some fernco 1 1/2 " rubber no hub plumbing connectors from home depot. It looked like from his pictures they fit snug in the air box enough to seal. Its not the most proper thing to do but will get you buy until you can get the right ones.

Enjoy Your Ride

MN

 

Sometimes, ... there's a Clue that raises a question about what the PO did with the Bike.

You have to Move the Airbox.
Pull those Ill fitting Rubbers.
Why not, ... Pull the Carbs, too!

You'll spend an additional afternoon Cleaning the Carbs while your Parts are being shipped.
You'll have them Clean for installation with the new stuff.

Then, Tuning is going to be a Joy rather than a Fight.
Your Bike will run Great and you'll get more enjoyment out of gettting it BACK to Original (NON-Dope-PO'd) condition.

 

You might be able to find some on eBay pretty cheap. I see sets going for under ten dollars usually. Thats one good thing about these bikes, parts are pretty readily available. If you wanted to, you could go with pods and do away with the airbox. I think you would have to tune the carbs though.

 

I would like to see some more pictures, not so close, what are the boots carbs to mill like? the 2 pictures give the impression that the airbox is in different possitions.

 

I'll get my camera, and take some more pics later.

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... upler.html

Bargomer, here's a thread that details this mod. It's not Mickey Mouse if it's done right. Or just buy new boots.

And your "to-do" list should include a valve clearance check (or adjust), alternator brush check, brake fluid flush, rear brake check, tire date code, and several other similar checks.

 

as fitz explained, "previous owner" often IS a derogatory term in and of itself

 

Here's some more pics of the carbs:









Here's a pic of the rubber things that were in before:








I took the carbs out today and a bunch of fuel came out of them. Is that normal? I'm not going to take it apart and clean it until my workshop manual comes out. Man, this bike is invested with black widows!

 

oh ok, yeah PO hosed ya. Chacal will hook ya up.
The manifolds have obviously been repaired a bit too... and the fuel line.
I would suggest spending a buck or three on some new fuel line and putting an inline filter there while you're at it. Many of our carbs have tiny little screens inside that are a B*&% to clean so do yourself a favor and keep any crud from getting to them in the first place.

 

that's a radiator hose. that he cut in 4 sections.

the bike probably sat for a long time and he lost the joint hoses. a lot of times PO's take stuff apart to attempt to fix something. bike sits around for years. and they no longer have the parts. so then they try to sell it for top dollar. most people actually buy it. then realize it's going to cost them twice what they paid for the bike in parts so turn around and resell.

 

Alright. I went to Lowe's and got the American Value 1-1/2" flexible couplings. Whew, I got 5 of them for about the price for a legit boot. Thanks for that tip.

I also got a new fuel line as recommended. I'm not sure what type of oil to get, but I got Castrol 4T 4-Stroke Motorcycle oil SAE 10W-40.

I'm kind of on a budget due to tuition and books. Would I be able to get by with buying an air filter cleaner and just getting a new air filter next month?

 

You're most likely going to have a problem with the boots between the carbs and the engine.

That silicone smeared over them was probably done due to they being cracked as old rubber will do.

You will experience a lean condition and impossible tuning if this is not addressed.

You should pull the carbs, and peel some of that silicone off and see the actual condition of the boots.

Now that the carbs are off you can start taking them apart to check that all the right parts are where the should be and to clean them. This is a must!

Thats a nice looking bike and deserves to have this done right!

 

Am I able to buy rubber plumbing couplers to replace the boots that lead from the carburetor to the engine? Or will I have to buy some legit ones?

 

They are flanged and bolted to the motor with two hex screws...and have to tolerate a LOT of heat and chemical degradation from fuel mix...so yes, you need OE parts...

 

Alright, thanks.

I just took apart the carburetors with my uncle who is a mechanic, and he said that the carburetor was just rebuilt. From my opinion, it seemed like every part that was suppose to have a sharp point had a sharp point. Air was flowing freely through all the holes. The diaphragms didn't have any leaks, cracks, etc. I held it against lights to make sure.

I'm thinking the reason the bike is having the troubles it's having is because the PO never had the carbs tuned right? Can this be the problem? Here's my first post explaining exactly what happened. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27962.html

 

Hold on. The intake manifolds (the "boots" between the carbs and engine) commonly crack horribly from the outside. What's important is to examine them from the INSIDE to see if any of those cracks go all the way through. It's quite common for them to actually be fine even though they're cracked all over. You may be OK on intake manifolds, you can't go by external appearances.

Yes, considering all the other offenses committed by your PO, I would assume the carbs weren't done right.

You want to be done with all the screwing around and get the bike running right?

IN ORDER, no skipped steps or shortcuts:

-Check/adjust valve clearances.

-Compression test.

-carbs religiously, surgically clean; internal o-rings replaced, etc. Enrichment wells confirmed to be open (do a forum search.)

-ensure the freshly cleaned carbs pass the "clunk test" (do a forum search.)

-bench sync

-check float levels using gas and the clear tube method. (Again, forum search.)

-running vacuum sync; YICS blocked off.

-fine tune mixtures using ColorTune or by ear using "idle drop" method+plug chops.

DO those things, IN ORDER, no shortcuts, and as long as you haven't overlooked a vacuum leak somewhere, you'll be done with it.

Then install an inline fuel filter if you haven't already.

 

Thanks, Bigfitz. I'll be ordering some new intake manifolds from Chacal this week. Man those things are friggin expensive! I've read a couple posts that argue whether or not a certain YICS tool is legit. Is this one any good: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YICS-Eli ... ccessories

 

No, that tool in particular is NOT good.

Chacal carries one that does work, it is a direct replica of the Yamaha tool.

Like I said, don't necessarily replace manifolds based on the external appearance. Examine them from the inside. If the cracks do go all the way through then definitely replace.

 

Hey guys,

I couldn't get one of the screws off to release the gas to test the float level for three of the carbs. However, I tried putting everything together to test and see if it would run, but to no avail.

My dad was saying that if the screw is too stripped that I can drill it out? Is this too risky? There was a couple of times where the engine sounded like it wanted to turn over, but stopped right away.

Well, I probably won't be able to read up or work on anything until Tuesday. I look forward to any replies.

Thanks.

 

What's the issue with this tool?
It's the one that I have and it seemed to work fine for me. I'm not arguing the point, I just want to know why it is considered "Bad".

 

I would use Castrol 4T 20W50 instead of the 10W40. I use Castrol 4T 20W50 in both my air cooled Maxim and my other bike which is water cooled as that is the oil that meets the specs from both Yamaha and BMW.

Loren