Got to keep the bike, but now doesn't start

I think my bike wishes i wasn't able to bring it to san diego, because now it won't start.

I unloaded the bike from the uhaul and it started up easy like always, then i left it sit for about a week before i got another chance to try and start it. I had just put fresh gas in it 2 days before i left

Between when i got to sd and tried starting it the weather was very rainy and it got poured on alot uncovered - it used to be garaged hence i don't have a cover yet.

I was able to get it started and it ran for about 15 seconds then cut off and i drained the battery trying to get it going.

Next day i checked the plugs which were black and covered in gunk. So i replaced all 4 plugs and charged the battery. I checked the airbox and there was some crud in there, looked like it might have been a little rain runoff or something.

After alot of faffing i got the bike to run for about a minute then it suddenly cut off again and wouldn't start. Between attempts i would see a little white smoke coming out of the mufflers and a couple times it made a loud pop out of the mufflers when i disengaged the starter. Again i killed the battery trying to start it so i charged it again.

Today i was able to get it to start but it would die as soon as i disengaged the starter. The battery died again and much faster this time even after a full charge.

So what could be going on? do i need a new battery and oil change? or is there something else i can try?

 

New battery for sure, pull the plugs, see if they are wet...between the backfire and the white smoke it sounds like it's overfueling all to hell, or the long attempts to start it have really loaded it up...does the smoke/vapor smell like fuel?

The other option would be oil, but it's hard to explain how all 4 could suddenly be oil-fouled, unless it's a crankcase vent issue (check the line coming from the case to the airbox).

That pop just as you let off the starter...sounds like not enough juice to fire the coils when cranking, exhaust full of unburnt fuel, when you let off the starter the engine is still turning but now has enough power fire the coils, but the cylinders and plugs are fuel fouled, so you get a slow, lazy burn that backfires through the exhaust and burns out the fuel in there...that seems a likely scenario to me.

But the rain complicates things too. I'd try lifting the tank, spray the coils, wires and anything else ignition related with WD-40 or something similar to chase the water out, in case that's figuring into this too.

Must be a shock to it, going from dry Vegas to humid SD, huh?

 

Check your coils for cracks and all of your electrical connections

MN

 

ok i threw a new battery in, and it started right up with a little starting fluid. ran great for about 5 minutes, i was watching it and adjusting the choke as necessary, then like it did before it just cut off and wouldn't start.

so now its like before where it will start but will die if i let go of the starter button.

When it first started it was letting out some white smoke which faded after it ran for a bit and the exhaust had a strong fuel smell. I also noticed condensation building inside the mufflers as it ran for a while.

What do i check now? I have a feeling coming from such a hot dry place to san diego that is much cooler and more humid is having an effect on things.

 

I don't think your journey from LV to SD made any appreciable difference to the bike. Otherwise we would hear of plenty of bikes not running right all over SD. Since it will fire up w/ starter fluid, you have eliminated the electrical system It's got to be fuel. I wonder if you got some cruddy fuel. I'm not a 550 guy so I'm not terribly familiar with your carbs and make sure you aren't having problems there.

 

You say, ... "It runs for 5 minutes then dies".

Your running off the top of the battery. Once the battery can't support the load, ... the Bike dies.

Check the Charging System.
Be sure the Charging System is supplying current to charge the battery when the Bike is running.

I suspect the 550 requires about the same Current to sustain the battery as the 6/750's.

Measure the Voltage at the Battery Terminals with the Engine at 2000 rpm's.

You should see a bit over 14 Volts.

 

That's what I was beginning to suspect too.

If it all started after the rain soak, make sure your connectors for the regulator and such aren't fulla water...

 

everything seems to be well dried out, but some parts started to rust over pretty well, the rectifier was already kinda rusty but now its gotten worse.

What things should i check out when i get the bike running, since i apprently only have a short time to test things before the battery runs out.

 

Pull the Cover on the Alternator/Generator.

Look at the two Brushes.
They might be too short to keep thing going.
See it there's a Wear Indicator.
It they're 10mm or shorter, ... Replace them.

 

i just replaced the alternator brushes a couple months ago

 

so what does the charging system read with the bike ru nning?????

 

That's the kicker.
Those New Brushes might not be all you needed to do.
You might have to "Dress" the Rotor.
(A Stationery Store-bought Pumice Eraser is a good tool)

Measure you running Volts at the Battery Terminals.
2,000 rpm's or higher.
+14 Volts (14.2 ~14.5 = OK)

 

So what does it read? And what does it read at 3000 rpm?

Have you eliminated something silly, like the gas cap vent? "Runs for 5 minutes then dies" does NOT limit itself to an electrical issue; actually I am suspect of that whole direction.

Step back and think about everything let's not simply assume electrical.

Let's start by making sure there isn't 1/2" of water in the bottom of the gas tank. Then try opening the gas cap and seeing how long it runs for.

You might just be running the battery down when it won't start for a completely different reason.

You sure the sidestand switch isn't full of water? (here we go electrical again, couldn't help it.)

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX YOU'VE TALKED YOURSELF INTO. Only then will you find it.

 

He said:

It runs for 5-minutes, ... then -- quits.
Claims he changed the Brushes.
Had a dead battery.
Happened over and over.

Hey, ... if what's in the box looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... I'd like to know what the duck the charging current is.

 

Oh, I agree, that was my first question.

I'm just suggesting that if the problem IS elsewhere this won't solve it, I just wanted to be sure all the possible "water incursion" possibilities were covered.

 

well the rain didn't let up for a couple more days so i haven't gotten a chance to try it out again. I'm also in the middle of repairing the bumper on my car and since i'm without garage now i have to do one project at a time. i'll post up what i find on the battery as soon as i can

 

Rain is supposed to let up in the next day or two, good luck!

 

well it certainly took longer for the rain to let up than previously assumed. I got the bike running yesterday. Fresh charge on the battery, fresh gas in the tank, a little starting fluid and it jumped right to life. i took it for a good 30-40 minute spin to try and burn off all the month old gas and get some fresh gas into the carbs so i don't wind up in a carb cleaning situation. bike ran beautifully.

got back home, turned the bike off and started it again to see if it would start, again came right to life no issues. tell myself "ok just take it for a ride every evening to keep the battery charged".

go out today, same story as before, will start after a while with starting fluid, run for a bit, then die.

I noticed a long time ago when i would check my battery voltage it was reading ~18v when the bike was off and i assumed something was up with my multimeter. maybe my bike just needs an overcharged battery to get running? It was that same 18v consistently for months and the bike ran perfectly the whole time. Should i try overcharging the battery and see if that works to get it running for more than a day?

 

overcharging the battery does nothing but fry it. boils out the water and melts the cells.

your charging system shouldn't be higher then 15v MAX.
14-14.5v would be the prefered range.
18v is doing nothing but burning down the bike. your voltmeter might also be faulty or have a low battery. try a new battery or double check with a different meter.

you shouldn't need starting fluid unless the bike sat for a long time. it's time to clean the carbs.

i only use starting fluid after prolonged periods of winter sitting. to save wear and tear on the starter. and i only use a very light squirt. others would say it's a no no. but today's fluid isn't the same as yesterdays fluid. yesterdays fluid used to make the motor knock. today's fluid don't do that anymore.

 

i just cant win. when i tried getting it running the other day i left the petcock on prime and when i went out today to give it another go i could smell gas before i was even able to touch the bike.

time for an oil change now too

 

dumped the oil out, holy christ did it wreak like fuel. put new oil in but it got too dark to try and get it started. i'll try again tomorrow morning

 

it has to be something electrical. I'm able to get it started but it only runs for a few minutes then dies. i've already replaced the alternator brushes, what else can i look for.

I'm thinking i should just sell the bike and get something newer. i don't have as much free time to tinker as i used to with the new job and all

 

So I haven't touched the bike since wednesday, i have somebody come out today to look at it to buy and i go to show him that the starter will crank but it wont start, and it came right to life.

He probably wasn't interested and gave the old "oh i'll call you" instead of just saying thanks its not for me.

anyway i was able to ride it around for a good half hour, and it starts easily now.

The voltage at the battery while idling was ~12.5, and went to ~13 when i held the throttle around 3k.

What can i look for now that its running?

 

At 3K the voltage sould have been over 14 volts.

Check the three wire connector coming up from the alternator to make sure its not melted.
Check your alternator brushes.

MN

 

if it keeps giving you problems, i would remove the tank check the petcock, remove and inspect the carb floats. just eliminate the fuel system as the problem. cause to me, it sounds like its starving for fuel. but intermittinly? ahh, just my 2 cents man, but dont sell it cause its got probs, at least fix it and get way more money for it

 

sold the bike. used the money to buy an 84 honda nighthawk. been lots of fun while it lasted!

 

If the Nighthawk has a drum rear brake, be sure to check it for delamination. My very first experience with delaminated brake shoes was on a Honda (car.)

All the same stuff that applied to getting your '82 Yamaha back on the road is going to apply to an '84 Honda, like the age of the tires, etc.

What type of carbs does the Nighthawk have?

 

Yeah luckily the guy had a new pair of brake shoes and a repair manual that he included in the sale. I mentioned the delamination, he said when he checked the shoes a few years ago they "looked fine" so he didn't replace them.

The front tire is 8 years old, the rear tire is 6 years old. They're bald, dry rotted, cracked, and squared off. I already have a new set of tires on the way from bike bandit.

The guy said he had been riding it regularly with the tires like that, he even said he just a couple weeks ago rode it to las vegas. He's lucky he didnt have a blowout that front tire is pretty much gone.

Also said he hadn't changed the air filter since he bought the bike 5 years ago, and said he pretty much left it alone as long as it was running.

Obviously thats not the proper way to maintain a 25 year old motorcycle, so its getting all consumables/fluids replaced before i start riding it at all.

 

That makes me sad bro. That was a sweet bike and for a minute I thought I was going to have a partner in XJ crime in San Diego.

 

I'll make a pitch for you to wander over and see Mike (owner) at National City Cycles, just off of 8th on National City Blvd. He took care of my brother and me for years. You could always drop my name (mention the twin Navy guys). He'll get you the materials you need at a reasonable price.

 

Robert, that's the place with all the classic bikes? Been there, done that, will do it again. Right by base too, on the way home! Had everything I needed in stock, including the brake pads that I had already ordered online (*no one will have these in a STORE!*)

 

Yep, that's them. Rob runs the service department and Diego is on the counter (at least he was 4 years back). Mikes been making nice changes since his dad passed on (RIP). I've yet to visit the museum he was planning for upstairs.

 

All the classics are downstairs. They didn't mention anything upstairs, I'm sure they would have I was staring at the bikes pretty hard. I only went there once to bring my wheel in to get a new front tire, and some fresh oil and a filter. I was suprised they had all that. When I get back I'll have to stop by there more often.