Replaced solenoid, but still no start

So, I have "bike not starting" question. What happens: it makes a slight turn over chug, just for a fraction of a second, then proceeds to buzz. I have an audio file, but can't seem to upload it.

Its been getting harder and harder to start, I had been blaming it on the cold, but I never had a problem turning it over once she was warm. Now I wont even get a consistent "chug". Last time it turned over (no start) it was very slow, like the battery was dying, only it wasn't.

I replaced the solenoid and its connecting wires, but the problem is still there. (It sounds like it is coming directly from the solenoid too)

where to go next?

 

Check your charging system and starter. May need new brushes or have a worn out starter motor. Could be an old battery too.

 

starters with worn brushes have been known to have a harder time in the cold then in the warm.

battery connections, battery cables, starter connections. charging system. battery condition. will all have an impact on cranking.

if you have a known good automotive battery. like in your car for instance. you can use jumper cables on the bike to see if the starter spins any better. negative post to any good ground on the bike. positive post to the nut on the starter will also make the starter spin. if you know for sure the battery in the bike is in great shape then use that.

make sure the bike is in neutral first.

using a voltmeter. you can test for drainage across the top of battery. one clip hooked to either battery post. the other clip floats across the top of the battery. any type of dirt acts as a conductor and will have voltage seeping across the top of battery.

maybe a drain on the battery. disconnect ONE battery cable. put a voltmeter between the disconnected battery cable and the battery post. (or use a test light). do you have a reading or does the test light come on?

check your battery cables for voltage drop. on the postivie cable. you put the positive voltmeter at the battery. negative goes to solenoid. what's the reading? the number will be under should be very low(around .1 volts). check the cable from the solenoid to starter. it's fairly short and thin so it shouldn't read more then .5 volts. (motor will have to be cranking to get a reading.) positve meter at the solenoid. negative meter at the starter terminal. then do the ground cable. motor cranking. postive meter at the ground connection. negative meter at the negative battery post. should be less then .3 volts.

on a car the voltage drop should be no more then .8 volts on the positive and no more then .5 volts on the negative. (motor cranking) anything close to or higher indicates cable having a problem. (corrosion or breaking wires inside the cable).

the battery reads 12.6 volts but theres always a voltage drop through the cables. meaning less volts actually hits the starter. good starter, good cables, and good battery generally won't have that big of a drop though. usually only .5 volts between the 2 cables.

 

You need to clean your starter motor. I had the exact same problem with mine. I fixed mine by spraying wd40 into the electrical part of it without pulling it all apart. I've been told that this is not the smartest thing to do though - apparently it could cause shorts and possibly catch fire or explode...anyway, my point is - clean your starter!

 

Starter brushes create dust they wear guess what this dust does it conducts electricity.

 

starter was beyond repair. replaced. New connections on everything. Battery is good.

After a stuck float problem the bike chugged, but didn't turn over. Went to bump start and wouldn't even get a little bit of a turn over.

Could charging system contribute to this problem absolutely 0 crank? I thought that it could only effect the bike when running, or in draining the battery.

 

make sure it is still capable of rotation pull the cover off the left side of the engine and turn with a 19 mm open end wrench. sorry if im misinterpreting your post but you say it wont even turn over on a fresh batt and starter. it makes a chug noise? not starter clutch noise?

 

just "buzzes" around the solenoid. Starter wont turn unless I short the solenoid. Both are new.

Will not bump start either.

 

-don't sweat the bump-start part, unless everything's pretty much 100% bump-starting probably won't work.

-the fact that the starter turns over fine when you short the solenoid is the clue to the problem.

Question: Where did the new solenoid come from?

Your problem is likely going to be switch/button or ground strap related. When you hit the starter button, the circuit, for whatever reason, won't carry enough current to fully activate the solenoid (hence the buzzing.)

The first thing I would do would be to check the ground strap(s) between the engine and frame; then wring out the starter circuit wiring and connnectors, including the button switch itself.

Your switch pod may not be making a good ground to the bar, or the bar might not be making a good ground to the rest of the bike, but I suspect it's more of an engine-to-frame ground issue.

 

take a wire from the positive battery and touch the connection on the solenoid. as if your supplying power to the solenoid instead of using the switch.

see what happens. if it works then it's the switch. if not then like the above posts say. engine to frame ground connection.

what does the voltage read on the battery with key off.
what does the voltage read when cranking.
you say the battery is good. but good batteries have been known to test faulty.

 

Have you done this to an XJ solenoid?? this would work on a Ford.

For reference, a fine How-To :

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... vious.html

 

yes time i've done it on an xj solenoid.

it works on any solenoid. some just may be tricky to do.

i should have posted somewhere in the switch device though. such as in that diagram you posted.

 

Definitely problems with the ground. I got a resistance reading between the negative battery terminal and the engine case. It is going to be hard to get that bolt loose that is holds the ground cable to the engine case. There is almost 0 maneuvering room and I am not really wanting to take the whole air box/battery holding case out. Going to have to make a trip to the hardware store. Anyone dealt with this before?

 

is there corrosion on the negative cable??

take your voltmeter and do a voltage drop test. negative test cable goes on the negative post of battery. positive test cable goes on the other end of the cable.

voltmeter on the low end of volt scale. crank the bike over. youi should have a reading of about .3 volts or less while cranking the motor. that will tell you if the cable is bad.

naturally this is a 2 person job.

the cable DOESN'T have to be remounted in the same spot. it can go anywhere on the motor for a ground connection. so if it's not an easy spot to get to. just cut the cable off. and install a new cable somewhere that's easy to get to.

 

I installed aftermarket handlebars on my bike. They were black. Didn't realize the starter switch is ground through the bars. Only started by arcing the solenoid. After alot of headaches a freind realized it was a ground problem caused by the coating on the bars.

 

I remember another symptom when all these electric problems came to a head. It was a very foggy, cold day. Aside from normal starting problems the bike just died on me at a stop. A 20 minute wait it restarted and got me home...that was the last successful ride...This means alternator/regulator problem right?

Here's an update to my work thus far:
Starter, solenoid, starter and associated wires are new from Chacal. Battery is less than 6 mo and fully charged.

I cleaned my grounds, replaced the negative battery cable. The bike now turns the starter motor with the start button. However, it doesn't turn over. It doesn't even sound like it's "chugging"


The alternator and it's brushes looked OK at inspection, however the wiring does not. It is melted at the white connector and I wasn't able to get the correct ohms readings. I am going to replace these wires. Hopefully the alternator/regulator isn't the problem and it is just faulty connections.

I also didn't get the correct readings from the spark plug wires, (which are corroded) although the resistance from the coils was ok. I am going to replace the wires and caps.

I took the plugs out from the engine, grounded to the head and with the lights off saw a faint blue spark...should it be stronger?

 

So if I'm reading you right, the starter is spinning; is it spinning the motor or just spinning?

If the motor is spinning, it's "turning over" just not firing.

From the sound of things ("melted at the white connector") you still have some work to do.

But--

Just for gits and shiggles, put in a brand new set of properly gapped plugs; be sure the battery is fully charged, and give it a shot.

 

Are you getting compression? How do you know the engine isn't turning over?
If you aren't turning an engine, your starter clutch or starter chain are suspects. If the engine turns over (rotates), you have to check the spark. No spark= more trouble shooting of the ignition system. Got a spark? Make sure it is timed correctly (rarely needs attention but it does happen).
The melted connector is the alternator output and the melted connector is a very common issue. It is caused by too much current demand on the alternator (they are a wimpy 19 amps anyway). Best bet is to repair the wires (they can be plugged back together in any order) and clean corrosion off of all of your electrical system connections. Then cover the fresh connections with dielectric grease to prevent further issues.

 

Total re-haul of the electrical system over the past few weeks. The melted connectors are fixed, charging and starter system are testing ok. Even pulled the plugs out to look at spark.

I tried to push start again and got nothing. it would just make a 'vvvv' sound. It doesn't sound like the engine is rotating, with either electrical or push start. Do I really need to get into the starter clutch and chain like Robert said? Anything else this might be?

 

Been doing some reading and now I'm contemplating splitting the crank case. The starter is spinning, It's sparking, but it's not doing anything to the engine. Fuel is moving through the carbs as well. (they were recently cleaned).

Timing was mentioned earlier. Will this cause my problem, or am I destined to split the case?