Pet peeve about anti-pod guys...

When replying to posts in the "MODIFICATIONS" section of this site, can the purists who have never put pods on a bike refrain from replying to a post about pods? Leave the answers to guys who have tried it and have either succeeded or failed, or at least put it in the post that you have never tried pods and are merely relying on hearsay to add two pennies to a discussion that maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be a part of in the first place. Why is a purist lurking around in the Mods section anyway? Just a rant. I feel much better now.

 

8O UHH OHH 8O !!!

skillet

 

fair play.i wouldnt say'dont voice your opinion',but i agree with state the fact you havent tried them.at the same time,theres nothing that makes me more determined than when someone says'it wont work'.i have a 350lc,and someone who is sposed to know all there is to know about lc's told me you cant make a powervalve crank work in an lc engine.'it simply WONT work' he sed.i now have a 350lc with a f1 powervalve crank in it.it works,not very well,BUT it works.it will work well,but till now,all i did was attack my crankcases with a dremel.my moto is,anything can/will work,it just depends on how determined/how far you are prepared to go to prove it.

 

Most of us experenced guys have tried them weather sucessfull or not. I have had them and do recommend to people if they are not familiar with the tuning involved to stay away from pods. Lots ask about them because they don't know the trouble involved with making them run right. It is not a simple install and ride procedure. It is possible , it just takes time and money. I have had them on several bikes .The HP gains are miminal and the fuel ecomony really sucks. I can have a better running bike without them.

 

Precisely. I personally try not to say anything unless it's based on first-hand experience. And I've had plenty of (negative) "pod experience" myself over my last 40+ years or so of motorcycle wrenching.

What's worse are people who aren't running pods (or even those who are) telling complete newcomers, in many cases first time riders, to go ahead with a serious rideability-affecting mod. These "it's my first motorcycle" guys shouldn't be encouraged to start cutting and modding when they don't even know what riding a bike is about yet.

Don't get me started on "hardtailing."

 

i'd like to buy you a beer 8)

 

PODS, What a great subject! NOT ALL ANTI-POD guys. I enjoy reading these. I didn't post much when first getting involved with my bike. But I'm getting more comfortable with my experience and (some) knowledge. As far as the postings, I think that never used them and are posting should say they that in their post. They are posting without any experience, only based on opinions based on...well...I don't know. For those posting that have experienced them, THANK YOU. Like them or not. Thanks. Those like BigFitz that have that much experience and are posting about it(and everything else) I think that is awesome. But for me, I'm only 30 and not nearly that much experience. BUT, creating that now! So, hopefully as I post in the future to those in need, I can give edumacated advises like Bigfitz and the other experienced XJ friends on this site. I did go to PODs and will post about my experiences in the future (take it for what it is worth to you).
Thanks for putting up with me!
Jason

 

The original carbs on these bike SUCK. Why make it harder on your self by adding pods? Because they look better than a airbox. If you like working on your bike that much go ahead,wish you well, you just might get it right.Or you could change to different style carbs or fuel injection.

I don't think the (purist) guys on this site are trying to be assholes, they are just trying to help.

Those who ignore wisdom are doomed to repeat history!

 

I say to each their own. If you want pods go for pods. If you dont then dont. Never had much of a problem with pod guys. (you can buy some really cheap "it wont quit run right" bikes on craigs list thanks to pods ) Now the guys who chop the tail end of a pristine runner and put a grandma biicycle seat one it?!?!?! uhhh... but you know what its you freaking bike. if you wanna paint it purple and hang tassles from the handle bars then that all you baby......

I personally like the Mod section. Makes for interesting reading and you guys really do come up with some cool stuff (some times) :roll:

 

HEY! HEY! You been spying on my next project? Who told? WHO TOLD??!!

Actually I enjoyed my "bobber" project and I enjoyed tuning with the pods. But I also have since developed a soft spot for stock, maybe mildly modified bikes.

I enjoy reading the intelligent, experienced posts of the people on here that obviously know a LOT about this stuff. I enjoy reading the progress, trials and tribulations of people experimenting, failing and succeeding. But I also have been hanging around long enough that I usually pass over the "pods are evil" droning on and on. BUT, that's more MY issue. There are a lot of NEW people to this site and these activities and they need to hear it. If anything we should be happy that these people have the patience to keep repeating themselves.

That said, I wish I'd have thought to use the stock rubber boots as "velocity" stacks. Hmmmm.....

 

+1 camelman, that's exactly why you find bikes that have been sitting for a few years with little mileage, they get tired of cleaning, syncing and tuning. Velocity stacked pods did work for streetbrawler and I remember Rick writing about pods saying that the reason they didn't work was because of disrupted airflow to the top hats. Placing a velocity stack on must fix the air flow.

 

Actually, you're missing my point. If someone MODIFIES their bike by bobbing it, hardtailing it, or putting on a solo seat, the stock airbox is no longer an option. Pods are the easiest/most cost effective/most available answer. And since this is the MODIFICATIONS board, let's just asume that guys who decide to modify their bikes have at a minimum some basic mechanical abilities. Along that line of thought, it's hard to imagine anyone could keep a 30 year old machine on the road without possessing any mechanical know how. We all have the bikes for a reason: 1) RESTORING old iron back to good-as-new condition. 2) Cheap first bike to learn on. 3) A bike to chop away on to get the custom bike look without the custom bike price. 4) Cheap transportation in these bad economic times.
If you're a "1" guy, why are you in the MODS section anyways?
If you're a "2" guy, what better way to learn than by doing?
If you're a "3" guy, do you care? You've already placed form ahead of function.
If you're a "4" guy, are you going to do anything to your bike other than routine maintenence?

 

I will also say this: To me bigfitz is like EF Hutton. When he talks, I listen. Experience like that can not be overlooked. Although I may not always use it, his advice is always taken into consideration. I did hardtail, but am debating the no front brake thing.

 

Know something: I'm NOT an "anti-pod guy." I'm an "anti telling newbies who know nothing it's OK to screw up their bike" guy.

That's all; plain and simple. Remember, people who have NO FRAME OF REFERENCE come to this site for advice; to tell some guy who has to pay to get a petcock fixed to just go ahead and rip out his airbox isn't being "helpful."

The fact of the matter is, a LOT of people who do not have the slightest clue about what even owning a bike means think it's like buying an old car. It runs, you spiff it up a bit, and drive it. But that's not the case with an old motorcycle; and if a guy knows nothing about bikes, and nothing about wrenching, telling him to go ahead and set himself up for some "tuning fun" isn't doing him any favors.

I have two operational XJs, one is relatively stock; one has a NUMBER of "mods" (just not to the intake or exhaust.) But mods nonetheless; and some mods are a very good thing. But cutting up a bike when you know nothing about bikes is not.

Yes, you can make a bike with CV carbs run OK with pods. But it's NOT for the inexperienced neophyte mechanic; it ain't exactly a plug-n-play proposition, and it's more difficult with the smaller displacement engines than the large ones because you don't have any margin to give away.

Further, it would be less than honest to lead anybody to believe that modding their intake system is going to result in some great improvement in performance, when repeated experiences are to the contrary. It's going to lead to WORK, and people need to know that. They also need to know it can degrade their bikes' performance if they don't get it right.

The EASY way to get one of these bikes to run right is to run it stock; and you all know how "easy" THAT can be.

 

i like when informative posts supporting pods get DELETED by the resident naysayer pessimist.

i find it amazing too, how the on-highway crowd is so against open filters claiming its impossible to rejet cv carbs, and the offroad crowd will preach the exact opposite.

i wont say its easy for all, but its certainly not impossible and if you save your stock parts you can always give up and go back to stock. like 16oz says, modifications section is not for "keep it stock" rhetoric.

 

a while back this thread over on kz riders talked about putting 4 stacks inside 2 air filters and keeping the air jet/vent open to atmosphere pressure, looks like a nice setup
for the record, i'am not a pod guy

 

That look's sweet. And I bet it works very well. Some mods can't be done cheaply and get good results, unfortunately.

 

There are pros and cons on everything. My maxim had pods on it ran good carbs were jetted. It started a little bit harder and actually took longer to warm up. But if it sat for a week or so i would have to give it a boot of either. I am going back to an air box with a k@n in it to try. I am sure it will pick up some low end when i do and carburate a bit better. You hear a lot of people that say it pulls much harder on top wich it might pull a little better but what the do not realize is it boottom end and midrange. What it is doing is spiking on top wich means your slides are open all the wayi would say 5-6k flowing to much air to gas ratio when the revs get a little higher motor is sucking harder and pulling more fuel thru the carb so the ratio gets closer to optimum. I really wish i had some dyno sheets to show you. If anyone runs across some before and after pods it will explain it better then i can just follow the graphs

 

There are pros and cons on everything. My maxim had pods on it ran good carbs were jetted. It started a little bit harder and actually took longer to warm up. But if it sat for a week or so i would have to give it a boost of either. I am going back to an air box with a k@n in it to try. I am sure it will pick up some low end when i do and carburate a bit better. You hear a lot of people that say it pulls much harder on top wich it might pull a little better but what the do not realize is it bottom end and midrange. What it is doing is spiking on top wich means your slides are open all the way i would say 5-6k flowing to much air to gas ratio when the revs get a little higher motor is sucking harder and pulling more fuel thru the carb so the ratio gets closer to optimum. I really wish i had some dyno sheets to show you. If anyone runs across some before and after pods it will explain it better then i can just follow the graphs

 

The presumption here is that all the posts against pods are meant for everyone, newbie and advanced tuner alike. However, the advanced tuners aren't the ones on here asking questions. So you come up with an argument that smells of the Philosophy of Quantum Mechanics.

It seems like everyone is against pods and have difficulty with pods, because those who can make their bikes run well with pods DON'T POST ABOUT PODS!!! Dark matter, if you will.

All rick and fitz and anyone worth their salt here say about pods is this: It's not for the faint hearted.

Heck, rick has an entire thread helping the "pod theory" along. fitz stated his position above. There's no one against pods here. We're just anti-too-much-work-not-enough-riding!! Or the "I give UP!" syndrome.

 

Pods are a pain in the ass and require more work than stock. I did have some good gains from my pods making me able to run down bikes that before walked away from me. And the gas mileage does kind of suck but it's better than my old V8 powered hot rod Cutlass and is faster. But pods are not for everyone especially one who does not have a good knowledge base for the inner workings of the vehicle. I like them

 

I agree with you you can make anything work with time and patience. Most people give up after 2 or 3 times taking off their carbs. Some are lucky and get it right. when i pull my carbs off i will post the jet sizes that are in it just to help people out and give them an idea where a good starting point is. Its a possibility that it might have a jet kit in that case it could have different diaphram springs i don't know .
I have nothing against them its just easier to tune a stock air box. But then you don't have the look or the roar of pods. When TNT performance did my VMAX they had my carbs off 28 times thats a lot of dyno runs they did pods stock airbox k@n in the box so on. On my bike what made the best all round power was k@n in the box with lid off but it had v boost with a switch the would let the interconnect between the carbs open at 2500 rpm or stock 4500 rpm Bike first run stock jets and header lost 2 hp over stk exhaust after it was done picked up 20 hp at the rear wheel There is a lot more to just changing jets air bleeds ect.

So if your going to do it be ready to do it many times

 

Before a Newcomer is advised by any Forum Member to make the switch from Stock Airbox To Pods; that New Member should be informed that making the switch to Pods does have its inherent "Down-side".

Most New-Bees are under the impression that installing Pods is a Quick and Easy "Bolt-On" method of: IMPROVING Performance.

They are sometimes misled to believe that the switch to Pods is going to be "Child's-Play". And, upon their fitment to the Bike; the Bike will LOOK better and PERFORM better than the Stock arrangement with Airbox.

Before any Member of this Forum makes a recommendation for a New Member to make the alteration from Stock to Pods; the information passed-on to the New Member should include all the well known "Side Effects".

Pods Make Your Bike Look Better.
That's the Pitch that sells the guy the Pods.

If somebody made them read the Fine Print before spending the money and having to find-out, ... THE HARD WAY ... that there more to decorating your bike with Air Pods than meets the eye, ...

Then you can feel better about not having led someone down the wrong path.

 

If these carbs were slide carbs and not cv carbs, there would be nothing stopping me from changing filters.

personally, 4 carbs are such a pain, it's almost impossible to remove the airbox without damaging it and if you decide you dont want pods putting in an airbox is a whole new story, but i suppose with pods it would be easier to remove the rack and put them back on to jet

though, pods to me look like ASS. seems like anyone who can afford a 300 dollar bike, a can of flat black paint, and a hacksaw is running pods, if your'e going this far, get a nice breadbox filter or some Velocity Stacks, with screens to keep bugs and small children out... only like pods on single carb set ups, for a 2 cylinder or 1....

I have a bobber of sorts going on and i still have my air box, just because i dont need one more PITA to deal with right now.

 

You know i agree Rick. If you don't know that pods will effect the mixtures of fuel and air, then you have no bussiness putting them on the bike.

 

Still missing my point. My issue isn't with whether pods work or don't work. It has nothing to do with dynos or performance upgrades. My problem is with the people. Plain and simple: IF YOU HAVE NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH PODS TELL THE GUY ASKING THE QUESTIONS THAT SO HE CAN FACTOR THAT INTO HIS DECISION! Or better yet, just let the people who do have first hand experience with pods provide the answers.

 

ACTUALLY YOUR WRONG Has everything to do with it think about it if you put pods on and it is not properly set up. and you loose 5 or so hp on a 550 lets say it makes 45 or so rwhp you loose 4 or 5 hp thats a loss of over 10 percent. Lets say your jetting is lean in the first place your cruising at 75 mph any your a/f ratio drops even more can torch a piston the leaner you run a bike the hotter it gets. It probably wont happen but could especially if your floats are set low. Not many people have an a/f ratio meter on their old bikes. A dyno is a very good place to get it set up your ratio is monitored thru out the rpm range the closer you get to optimum the more power you will make.
Simple advice if your going to slap a set of pods on just for the cool look and don't care how it runs go for it. No one else will care either. If you have the time and patience and don't mind taking them off and on a bunch of times and having a drawer full of different jets you can get it to run ok with them,. But you will not have the low end roll on you had with the air box on. You might think you do because of the noise but it won't be there.

I understand what your saying but you see it all the time people give advice on things that they don't have a clue what they are saying. But its free country you cant stop them

 

So I'm wrong on MY point about MY post on MY peeve? MY peeve wasn't with pods or performance or lack thereof. It was with anti-pod guys dishing out unmerited advice. I understand what you're saying about power loss, but that isn't what MY post or MY point was about.

And just for the record, I'd rather remove a set of carbs with pods and re-jet 10 times than fight with the stock airbox just once. Does anybody include that little tidbit when decrying the usage of pods to the newbs? You know, those poor hapless mechanially dysfunctional souls that everyone is trying to make life easier for.

 

You're not necessarily wrong at all. But don't assume that because somebody doesn't recommend pods, or isn't running pods, that they have no experience with them. On the contrary, most of the people you're characterizing as "anti-pod guys" ARE speaking from experience. It's usually the "just go ahead and hack it" guys that rarely have actual, successful, experience to draw on. I'm not going to name names, they know who they are.

Personally, I'd like to see anybody without direct experience with any mod, be it pods, or getting rid of the front brake, or "hardtailing vs. struts" keep their advice to themselves and let people WITH experience respond.

But as I said before, it's quite often the people with NO direct experience who say "just do it."

My point continues to be, that you shouldn't tell somebody posting that "it's my first bike, and I'm thinking about hardtailing it" that it's FINE, GO AHEAD," if you've never even ridden a hard tail bike before, let alone having done such a conversion yourself.

So I guess our points are basically the same: You say "don't tell somebody NOT to do a mod if you have no experience with it;" I say, "don't tell somebody to GO AHEAD with a mod if you have no direct experience with it."

I guess the best "rule" would be: don't encourage (or discourage) a modification that you have no direct experience of success (or failure) with.

Does that square with your peeve?

 

Absolutely, good sir. And I am reconsidering the idea to run no front brake. So do not think all your wise advice falls on deaf ears all the time. However, YOU were never the object of my peeve, as you do have experience with them.

 

Experience or no experience. A lot of us spend a lot of time reading random forums on here regarding different subject matter. I personally try to educate myself on every aspect of these motorcycles. If I read something Fitz says and a member asks a question regarding the matter, I will pass along Fitz's words of wisdom. It saves a lot of time and posts by forwarding valuable information, especially if you can link a forum where this is already discussed.

This is all free information, a mechanic would not give you such freedoms. I get incredibly annoyed when anyone complains about the immense amount of free information provided by those here. I cannot believe I went years with a book. I have learned more in a month on this site than I ever did in one of those books. So please, just be thankful that there are so many willing to help random strangers they do not know or may never meet.

Whether or not pods are a good idea seems like a no brainer. Your carbs are not meant for that much air. If you want a bike with pods, get one meant for it. Just because it is a modification, does not mean it is a GOOD modification.

 

ok... here's my 2¢ worth...
(yeah yeah..I know..nobody asked, but ur gettin' it anywho..)

When I got my xj and was looking at a quick and easy way to get it running, I thought pods were the trick...plus they had a nice 'kewl factor' goin' for them....HOWEVER.. after researching the idea some more (which I highly recommend before doing ANYTHING the first time..) I quickly realized the potential pitfalls for a carb-virgin such as myself. True, I probably read as many threads where guys had no problem as I did nightmare threads, but for me, a 50-50 proposition is a losing bet. Had it not been for the naysayers ( and foresight to do the research..) I would have had my stock airbox all ripped to shreds and pods purchased without any idea of the shark infested waters I was about to dive into...
I don't say pods WON'T work....I say for ME...I'm not prepared to do that much dickin' around to get and keep my bike running. Knowing that, inherently, you are eliminating an engineered design feature by removing the airbox and nothing is being do to even try to replicate that feature, for me, spells trouble. I was very interested in the pod-problem-theory-and-work-around that Rickomatic came up with here....anything more ever come of this??
ok..(stepping off soapbox) I'm dun...

 

*HIGH FIVE*

 

My XJ650 seca had pods on it when I first bought it. The motor ran ok but
I was never really happy with it. I decided to take the pods off. I put the
origional air box and filter that came in a box of stuff for the bike back on and
put the right jets back in the carbs. I have found that the motor runs much
better now. It feels more solid, it idles better, it warms up better and is more
responsive.

 

I've got to agree with the author of the thread. I ran into the identical thing on my H2 forum. The purists all said pods cause reversion at high rpm(they do) but preaching does not teach and they only came across as people that were afraid to mod their bikes. You'd be amazed how many H2 owners are horrified at the idea of changing anything. I used to roadrace so riding in a 1500 powerband is alright with me so i modded my ports when many purists said the porting wouldnt work. Personally, I just stay out of mod conversations i dont agree with.
jeff

 

JeffK, if you have the knowledge and experience you REALLY ought to jump in with both feet. If not, that's how discussions get so one sided...

skillet

 

Naw, I see it a little differently....

jeff

 

"Naw, I see it a little differently...."

JeffK

...

skillet

 

i got pods but yet to do any "real" testing. I've read somewhere on this forum that colortuning with the pods can make a difference in tuning.